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Wednesday, September 10, 2014

Corded Ware Culture linked to the spread of ANE across Europe


A news feature on the Lazaridis et al. preprint has just appeared at Science. The full text is behind a pay wall, but the freely available intro and graphic, of the Corded Ware horizon at its maximum extent, betray the main points of the article.

Three-part ancestry for Europeans: Eurasian “ghost lineage” contributed to most modern European genomes

Lazaridis et al. has been online for almost a year, so it's not exactly breaking news, but the Science feature is actually based on a talk by one of the paper's co-authors, Dr. Johannes Krause, at the recent SMBE 2014 conference in Basel.

The interesting thing is that in both drafts of Lazaridis et al. the authors keep well clear of attributing the post-Neolithic spread of Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) admixture (ie. the Eurasian "ghost lineage") into Western and Central Europe to any specific archeological culture or linguistic group. But according to the Science article, Krause thinks that the Corded Ware Culture (CWC) might have been responsible. Indeed, the article adds that Dr. Wolfgang Haak expressed the same opinion in another SMBE talk.

Keep in mind that Haak has already published a paper on uniparental markers from CWC remains (see here). So perhaps he wasn't just speculating that CWC people pushed ANE deep into Europe? Maybe he already knew after sequencing a CWC genome? Or not, but in any case, we're certainly due for an ancient genome from the critically important Late Neolithic/Early Bronze Age period of European prehistory.

Update 11/09/2014: It looks like my hunch was right. Haak and others have managed to sequence genome-wide data from CWC skeletons, and a paper is in the works. The authors are presenting their findings at the ASHG 2014 conference next month.

Capture of 390,000 SNPs in dozens of ancient central Europeans reveals a population turnover in Europe thousands of years after the advent of farming. I. Lazaridis, W. Haak, N. Patterson, N. Rohland, S. Mallick, B. Llamas, S. Nordenfelt, E. Harney, A. Cooper, K. W. Alt, D. Reich.

To understand the population transformations that took place in Europe since the early Neolithic, we used a DNA capture technique to obtain reads covering ~390 thousand single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) from a number of different archaeological cultures of central Europe (Germany and Hungary). The samples spanned the time period from 7,500 BP to 3,500 BP (Early Neolithic to Early Bronze Age periods) and most of them were previously studied using mtDNA (Brandt, Haak et al., Science, 2013). The captured SNPs include about 360,000 SNPs from the Affymetrix Human Origins Array that were discovered in African individuals, as well as about 30,000 SNPs chosen for other reasons (that are thought to have been affected by natural selection, or to have phenotypic effects, or are useful in determining Y-chromosome haplogroups). By analyzing this data together with a dataset of 2,345 present-day humans and other published ancient genomes, we show that late Neolithic inhabitants of central Europe belonging to the Corded Ware culture were not a continuation of the earlier occupants of the region. Our results highlight the importance of migration and major population turnover in Europe long after the arrival of farming.

Update 11/02/2015: Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe (Haak et al. 2015 preprint) .

See also...

Corded Ware people: more versatile and healthier than Neolithic farmers

49 comments:

Davidski said...

My mistake, it's not behind a pay wall.

http://video.sciencemag.pnw.orc.scoolaid.net/content/345/6201/1106.full.pdf

Shaikorth said...

"The study’s other big discovery was the
mysterious Eurasian DNA. It is missing
from hunter-gatherers from Luxembourg
and Spain, as well as from the early farm-
ers sequenced so far. But it shows up in an-
cient hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia. And
it is widespread in modern Europeans, ac-
counting for about *20% of the genome of
most Europeans, on average, reaching 29%
in central and northern Europeans*, such as
Estonians, Lithuanians, and Scandinavians."

Seems that their model's numbers were not final, as I suspected before. I didn't expect them to bloat ANE like that though.

Could be it has something to do with the DHG-EEF-ANE model presented earlier in the summer. If not, DHG is at least an odd way to typo WHG.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpsYS1hIIAAphsL.jpg:large

barakobama said...

Davidski, there's a bunch of awesome abstracts from ASHG 2014.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/08/ashg-2014-titles.html

Check out the one about ancient central European DNA.

Capture of 390,000 SNPs in dozens of ancient central Europeans reveals a population turnover in Europe thousands of years after the advent of farming. I. Lazaridis, W. Haak, N. Patterson, N. Rohland, S. Mallick, B. Llamas, S. Nordenfelt, E. Harney, A. Cooper, K. W. Alt, D. Reich.
To understand the population transformations that took place in Europe since the early Neolithic, we used a DNA capture technique to obtain reads covering ~390 thousand single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) from a number of different archaeological cultures of central Europe (Germany and Hungary).

The samples spanned the time period from *7,500 BP to 3,500 BP (Early Neolithic to Early Bronze Age periods)* and most of them were previously studied using mtDNA (Brandt, Haak et al., Science, 2013). The captured SNPs include about 360,000 SNPs from the Affymetrix Human Origins Array that were discovered in African individuals, as well as about 30,000 SNPs chosen for other reasons (that are thought to have been affected by natural selection, or to have phenotypic effects, or are useful in determining *Y-chromosome haplogroups*). By analyzing this data together with a dataset of *2,345 present-day humans and other published ancient genomes*, we show that late Neolithic inhabitants of central Europe belonging to the *Corded Ware culture were not a continuation of the earlier occupants of the region*.

Our results highlight the importance of migration and *major population turnover in Europe long after the arrival of farming*. * Contributed equally to this work.

Add this to Samara genomes, and whatever other shit is coming out.

Davidski said...

Haha, thanks, I knew something was up. Krause and Haak wouldn't just be shooting the breeze to the media about Corded Ware being partly ANE.

Davidski said...

Shaikorth,

I reckon the reporter just made an error. It happens all the time.

There's no way ANE is at 29% near the Baltic. If it is, then 9% isn't showing up in my ADMIXTURE runs, which doesn't make much sense.

barakobama said...

Davidski, I sent you my uncle's raw 23andme data to Eurogenesblog@hotmail.com.

Have you gotten results from other pops besides the ones you posted on the ANE K=7 thread?

Davidski said...

OK, I'll run him later today.

I've added a few more populations to this spreadsheet, if that's what you mean.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1v4zYizoWtsoW1MNBN7SUrLf8R62NHPbMRySUJ2J48_Q/edit?usp=sharing

barakobama said...

Anyone live by San Diego, who could go to the ASHG 2014 conference? We probably won't get much out of it(Corded ware had ANE and R1a-Z282 whopee, that's not groundbreaking) unless we have witness. If someone does go, please video tape it, with your phone or whatever.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

I think that it is going to be more complicated than that. German Bell Beaker was pan-European in its mtDNA, while Corded Ware was more focused on the Baltic and West Asia. Bell Beaker showed as much connection to the Western Steppes as CWC. BBC is closer to Unetice than CWC, as showed by the Near Eastern mtDNA post. CWC was closer to the Neolithic groups, than BBC. The simple change of 10% in the Basque to 17% in the Baltic can be attributed more to Mesolithic survival. I think that both will be about equally responsible.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/09/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-early.html

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/ancient-central-european-mtdna-across.html

Chad Rohlfsen said...

I think that it's more like BBC keeping EEF about the same, but decreasing WHG and increasing ANE. CWC probably lowered EEF, maybe kept WHG the same or slightly higher, and raised ANE.

Davidski said...

Unetice clusters with Corded Ware and Bronze Age Kazakhstan. No way is Unetice similar to BBC.

This is from Brandt et al. 2013. UC = Unetice, BAK, Bronze Age Kazakhstan, CWC = Corded Ware.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQaGtNa2syWmVuMkk/edit?usp=sharing

You must be thinking of the mtDNA from the BBC site at Kromsdorf only, which was very Corded Ware/Unetice-like, probably because BBC swapped women with these cultures in east Germany, Poland and Bohemia.

barakobama said...

There are to few mtDNA samples from BWC and CWC to take tests that test their relatedness to other pops and little differences in those tests to seriously. ALmost all the Unetice, BWC, and CWC samples come from the same region of Germany, so admixture with Indo Europeans can explain why BWC is so Indo European-like mtDNA wise.

Plus there's a big debate between experts on pre historic cultures, what Bell Beaker really was, and if the samples we have are representative of non-Indo European west Europeans at that time.

I can't wait to finally learn what the genetic makeup of central Europe's first Indo Europeans was. I wish it was from western Indo Europeans, because we don't have genomes from non-Indo European Neolithic people east of Germany, so we can't confidentially identify the their genetic input.

The results will probably finally put to rest how much ANE, WHG, and EEF the people who spread Indo European(I guess at least Balto-Slavic, since it's Corded ware) languages were. I suspect they're be very similar to modern northeast Europeans, but maybe they were more pure steppe Indo European.

It'll be interesting to see what pigmentation Neolithic-bronze age central Europeans had. I think it's safe to assume Neolithic ones were nearly identical modern Sardinians, but who knows. I suspect Andronovo-like pigmentation will arrive with the Corded ware people since it marks the last major population turnover in central Europe, and you see similar pigmentation there today.

That's strange though because Andronovo and Corded ware's source is Yamna, who were very very dark. And why are Europeans(including non-Indo Europeans) so similar to central Asian Indo Europeans pigmentation-wise if there is still a decent amount of native non-Indo European ancestry, and what about the Finno-Urgics? I guess it can change quickly, so percentage of ancestry from a certain population doesn't correlate for Europeans.

Davidski said...

The main problem with mtDNA is that as these cultures expanded they absorbed local women, and also women from other migrant cultures coming from other directions. So it's difficult to make inferences about the original genetic makeup of these groups from mtDNA data, although certainly not impossible.

This isn't a new theory though. Female exogamy among the late Neolithic/early Bronze Age cultures of Central Europe has been proposed from anthropological data, like tooth morphology.

That's probably why Corded Ware mtDNA from Central Europe is so similar to that of Neolithic farmers. And it's probably why the Bell Beaker mtDNA from Kromsdorf is so Eastern European-like.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

David,
The German Beaker sites are the ones that expanded West and changed the make-up. Everything subsequent, Wessex, Remedello, etc, likely came out of there. There is a lack of older lineages in Iberia, lack of old R1b in NW Africa, as well as a lack of any real Mediterranean or island mtDNA in Beaker sites. I think that it will clearly be an East to West migration, by land only, until moving to Scandinavia, Britain, and NW Sardinia.

Look at the graph from the first link. BBC is closer to UC than CWC is. BBC is also intermediary between Neolithic Portugal and UC. While CWC is more between BBC and Older Neolithic sites.

It may or may not be about sharing women. There are lines not shared by either that have more of an 'Eastern' origin, in BBC. BBC basically ended a short run of CWC, West of Eastern Germany.

Seinundzeit said...

Lol, when I read the stuff about Corded Ware being associated with ANE, my mind went back to something written by Carleton Stevens Coon. Coon was an idiot in his personal life, and his whole academic work was based on pure, unadulterated bull feces. ;-)

Regardless, there are interesting nuggets here and there. When describing an Afridi Pashtun subject from Pakistan, he writes:

"This Afridi from eastern Afghanistan (my note: the guy didn't know his geography). It's high, narrow cranial vault, in combination with a great facial and nasal height, and it's general cast of cranial features makes this type nearly identical with that of the Corded people who invaded Europe from the east toward the beginning of the third millennium B.C."

This is a nice coincidence, since South Central Asians are the most ANE-admixed Eurasians, and it seems these Corded Ware folks spread ANE across Europe. The funny thing I've noticed about strongly ANE-admixed peoples is that there is a tendency towards long faces, and very projective noses (Pashtuns are stereotyped for these traits, as are Native Americans from the plains of North America). Probably a coincidence.

Davidski said...

Chad,

Bell Beakers came from Portugal, and this shows very clearly in the German Bell Beakers via their mtDNA H lineages which are often very specific to the Atlantic region of Europe.

The presence of Eastern European-like lineages among the Bell Beakers just backs up earlier findings via tooth morphology that they swapped women with Corded Ware and Unetice groups.

These hybrid groups then expanded from Bohemia and Moravia in all directions, but especially to the west. This is known as the Bell Beaker reflux expansion that possibly spread Italo-Celtic languages, and might have also carried ANE deep into Western Europe.

Some more reading...

http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.com.au/2014/09/neolithic-population-busts-study.html

About Time said...

@Seinundzeit, I once dug up an old textbook that said a "Punjabi" type that fits your description shows up in early Russian Kurgans (mostly dark haired) and also in Mesopotamia. It was associated with Anau in Turkmenistan too.

Pakistani scholars named it the "Caspian" type. Maybe this was ANE or ANE+EEF (bringing some ANE variants to Europe).

Corded might have been this type, despite Coon's unfounded association with modern blondism. For all we know the long headed Cordeds mostly had brown or black hair and tan skin.

According to the older anthropology, the Caspian type moved into Poland, Czech, Germany (but not Scandinavia) then disappeared in Europe. Maybe it actually just mixed in to the general population after a big migration wave.

barakobama said...

"Maybe it actually just mixed in to the general population after a big migration wave."

The question is what was this general population in central Europe? They certainly were not Stuttgart-like if Indo Europeans were like Davidski's synthetic genome. It's a big mystery why we have the trends in Europe we have today, if Indo Europeans and Neolithic farmers can't seem to explain it. These central European genomes will probably give the answer. That's why someone's got to go to that conference or else we'll have to wait years to get the answer.

Davidski said...

Someone from ISOGG will probably attend and then do a write up, like for the SMBE 2014 stuff, and plenty of people will be tweeting from the presentations too.

Shaikorth said...

The amount of ANE they get for modern pops depends on the references they use. If their European hunter-gatherer reference and/or farmer reference is less ANE-like than ones in previous estimates, it translates into more ANE.

Of course it's possible that they've discovered more ANE makes for a more robust fit with the same old references by using a new method, but that's perhaps less likely.

Colin Welling said...

Unetice clusters with Corded Ware and Bronze Age Kazakhstan. No way is Unetice similar to BBC.

actually, neither the BBC nor the CWC are close to Unetice. see updated analysis

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/09/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-early.html

The main problem with mtDNA is that as these cultures expanded they absorbed local women, and also women from other migrant cultures coming from other directions.

which is exactly why it is a fallacy to say that the bell beakers came from portugal. there were probably multiple sources of migration in the bell beaker world. The only bell beaker migration firmly established by isotope analysis is the one going from east to west, bohemia to germany.

The presence of Eastern European-like lineages among the Bell Beakers just backs up earlier findings via tooth morphology that they swapped women with Corded Ware and Unetice groups.

These hybrid groups then expanded from Bohemia and Moravia in all directions, but especially to the west. This is known as the Bell Beaker REFLUX expansion that possibly spread Italo-Celtic languages, and might have also carried ANE deep into Western Europe.


Pre Italo-Celtic broke off from late PIE. Late PIE was located in the steppe. So if Bell Beakers got pre Italo-Celtic from CWC, you must assume CWC spoke pre Italo-Celtic. I doubt you think this.

Also, BBC did not get its steppe like dna from CWC. The CWC is too neolithic central european to contribute significant steppe like dna.

you see this neolithic leaning in both

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/09/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-of-early.html

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/10/ancient-central-european-mtdna-across.html

CWC may have spread ANE but they didnt donate pre italo-celtic to BBC nor did they supplant the migration of the eastern bell beakers.

we also now know that the yamnaya had a lot of mtdna H, like the bell beakers. so one cannot say that the majority of bell beaker mtdna H had to come from southwest europe.

Davidski said...

Yamnaya didn't have "a lot" of mtDNA H. And Bell Beakers did indeed expand from Portugal.

You're still in denial. But the genome-wide data from Copper Age Germany will put you out of your misery.

Tesmos said...

Holy shit, there will be some nice stuff in the next few months! We are still waiting for the Rise project results aswell.

David what is your opinion about R1b-U106 if i may ask? Is it considered as a Bell Beaker aswell?

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Bell beaker h is not the same in Germany and Portugal. It's more h1,h3, in Iberia, and h5, h5a, and such in Germany. Ponder this. Corded beakers in khavskynsk, then nw of the Black Sea, and then in Germany. When r1b went west pottery pretty much stayed the same as it was with previous inhabitants. Linking pottery to male movements is as useless as trying to discern female movements by metallurgy and weapons. R1b from the East, originally with corded pottery making females, then absorbing more ornamented beaker women in the west makes more sense.

Davidski said...

It's very difficult to have an opinion about R1b at the moment. We'll just have to wait for aDNA to sort out this issue.

Colin Welling said...

and Bell Beakers did INDEED expand from Portugal.

im not denying that. im saying there were multiple sources of migration in the beaker world. You admit this but in a convoluted way.

You're still in denial. But the genome-wide data from Copper Age Germany will put you out of your misery.

my general position, that metal age migrations brought dna from the steppe to western europe is essentially confirmed. and your old position that this didn't happen is essentially disproved.

now we are only discussing the vector for this change. I dont think it was the corded ware culture. it makes no linguistic sense and not much genetic sense either.

Bell beakers, and by extension western europeans, did not get their ANE by swapping women in borderlands of BBC and CWC. that would not explain the current levels of ANE in western europe.

you also, cant explain r1b corded ware women... there was a migration of men and women into the eastern bell beakers.

Davidski said...

Razib's going to this thing.

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/ashg-2014

Maybe he'll tweet from the Corded Ware talk?

truth said...

Polako, what's your view on this new abstract of an Iron Age Briton being similar to Spanairds and an Anglo-Saxon similar to Finns
---> http://dienekes.blogspot.com.es/2014/08/ashg-2014-titles.html

Helgenes50 said...

@ truth

That makes sense

look my results at K15

I am norman from France
(I cluster close to the SW english)

1 Orcadian+Southwest_French @ 4.521475
2 French_Basque+West_Norwegian @ 4.56655

Between 2 populations: Spaniard and Scandinavian

ZeGrammarNazi said...

@truth

I took it to mean that the Iron Age Brits, although similar to modern Brits, share rare alleles with modern day Spaniards. Whereas the Anglo-Saxon individual is even more similar to modern Brits than the Iron Age Brits, but also shares rare alleles with Finns.

I could have misunderstood the abstract, but that is how I took it.

Fanty said...

One big question about ANE is also:

Why is it super high in Scotts and super low in Spanish even through both are R1b dominated populations?

barakobama said...

Truth,

I would bet my life and the life of my unborn children, that the Iron age Briton samples are most similar to western Irish. If not them the other people in the British isles who perserved Celtic languages and had little admixture with people who came after Rome left, so Welsh, Cornish, east England in general, Britanny, and northern Scottish.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Fanty,
There is only a 5% difference between Spain and Scotland. Easily attributed to the fact that Scotland had ANE in the Mesolithic and Spain did not.

David,
I think that the argument that R1b can be tracked by beakers is ridiculous. One should look at metal working, weapons and ornamentation. Not only that, but the area of Portugal where some try to attribute to the start of Beaker culture has the lowest rates of R1b in all of Iberia. By a good margin too. It is the heaviest in E, G, and T. These are more likely the males migrating with females, if males moved much at all in the Neolithic. I would suspect that R1b is the first mobile male movement. Ornamentation became simpler, like pastoralists. Tanged daggers similar to the CMP and different types of arrow heads.

This same argument used for R1b, can then be used against R1a, by the fact that CWC had a lot of Corded Funnel Beakers and Globular Amphora pottery. Should I then argue that R1a originated in Central Europe? Of course not. The pottery is about female continuity and mobility, more than anything. Changes in metal working is the strongest link to new males, not to mention the fact that the German Beakers are physically different from the Iberian Beaker people.

Yamnaya actually had more H than has been found in Kromsdorf. Kromsdorf actually had no mtDNA H, in one study. In total, German Beakers were like 13/43 for H. Yamnaya in total had 7/26 for H. Yamnaya in Ukraine, had 4/7 rate for H.

There is a lot of evidence for pastoralists entering the Steppes, from the Caucasus. After domesticated animals reached the forest tribes, there was a large expansion that likely led to Corded Ware and Catacomb. Archaeologists say that these appear to be a new people of a different physical type. Likely those that filled the void left by R1b pastoralists looking to head to 'greener pastures' in Western Europe.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Couple all of this with the fact that German Beakers have weak relation to the Mediterranean and zero to Mediterranean islands. There is no evidence of island hopping. One would expect to find more m-269 and L23,11,51, in Iberia, if that was the case. R1b is clearly East to West, <5kya.

ZeGrammarNazi said...

The Kromsdorf site where R1b was found is more likely the exception than the standard when it comes to Bell Beaker sites. The site is a long ways from Portugal, the supposed homeland of the BB phenomenon, and the mtDNA found in that site is more comparable to its eastern neighbors than to Beaker sites further West. mtDNA haplogroups I1, T1, U2, U5, and W5 were identified along with the two R1b men and no mtDNA H was found there, unless I am forgetting something.

Also, the burial goods were very lacking for a beaker site. I think only two beakers were found out of eight graves and very little else from the usual beaker package was found.

I'm confident that we will have a better understanding of how R1a and R1b became so dominant in Europe by the end of this year, but it is still too early to say R1b = BBC and R1a = CWC given the limited evidence we have at this time.

About Time said...

Chad's insight + reasoning about pots-female and weapons-male is worth remembering. I haven't seen it before.

H is still a mystery to me. I almost wonder if it came with some kind of biological/physiological benefit. Like immunity, energy efficiency, dietary? Or those women were really good moms or attractive wives for some reason?

Or back to Celtic myths: the immigrant warrior males like McGrene ("son of the Sun" and of the "Allfather" Dagda) had to marry the goddesses of the land to have legitimate possession of Ireland. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ériu

If the pre-IE in West Europe were matriarchal wrt land ownership, they might have required that kind of intermarriage.

Davidski said...

There's no point getting into a huge discussion about this now, because I suspect the talk next month will bring some revelations that we've been anticipating for a while.

Note that they sequenced DNA from dozens of ancient skeletons from east Germany and Hungary, from the LBK period to the early Bronze Age, which surely must mean that Bell Beaker and/or Unetice samples were successfully tested. They also mention in the abstract that some of the markers were specifically chosen because they're useful in figuring out Y-haplogroups, which suggests they had some success with that.

But I will say this though, if Bell Beaker genome-wide data was sequenced, then how come the Corded Ware samples got the mention both in the session abstract and the Science feature? My hunch is because the Bell Beakers were typically Western European, and not as distinct from the earlier Neolithic Near Eastern-like farmers of Central Europe as the Corded Ware.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

I think that it is the fact that Corded Ware is significantly less EEF than Bell Beaker. This is probably why we see a 6% drop in EEF from Denmark to Poland. 10% less than Britain, too. Estonia is nearly 20% less than Britain, while ANE is almost the same. I don't think that the ANE difference is going to be that significant. Probably single to low double digits, between males for both cultures. It may depend on the timeframe. It's pretty clear based on the mtDNA frequencies, that Bell Beaker took on more local Neolithic women than Corded Ware did.

About Time said...

So Chad, you are thinking CWC was mostly ANE, and BB was closer to an even mix of ANE/EEF?

Chad Rohlfsen said...

I think CWC will be something like 25%EEF, 45%WHG, 30%ANE, and BBC will be 50%EEF, 20%WHG, and 30%ANE, or something along those lines. Corded may have a bit more ANE, but it shouldn't be too much more. If the Basque are 10%ANE and Estonians are 17%, almost all of that difference can be explained by ANE from the Mesolithic. Other numbers I've run put both near 40%, but that relies on just a 25% replacement. the 33% replacement put the numbers more into the 30s. ANE is about as high in Germany, Hungary, and Britain, as it is in Estonia, so the difference cant be that much. Corded Ware was replaced by BBC after only being around for nearly 200 years, West of Poland.

About Time said...

Something I think Shaikorth or Balaji mentioned in a recent thread:

Cord-decorated pottery goes back a long way in Asia, well before CWC proper shows up in NE Europe. Jomon in Japan had a variation of cord ornamented pottery, if memory serves.

Going with Chad's women=pots analogy, maybe CWC picked up ANE from Mal'ta descended women. The CWC males were maybe more West Asian(/Euro?) so EEF (and WHG?).

What did the CWC weapons look like. Battle Axes, right? Minoans had that. In India there is the story of Parashurama ("ax wielding"), the ascetic who took on hunter/Kshatriya characteristics.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parashurama

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Corded Beakers started in the Khavalynsk culture(Pre-Yamnaya). They are then in the Balkans and onto Germany.

pconroy said...

@Chad,

I don't think we've corresponded before, but I just read your comment:

"Bell beaker h is not the same in Germany and Portugal. It's more h1,h3, in Iberia, and h5, h5a, and such in Germany. Ponder this. Corded beakers in khavskynsk, then nw of the Black Sea, and then in Germany. "

I'm on the record as predicting that the Khvalynsk Culture were the original Indo-Europeans, on 2 blogs already. The cultures North of them were mostly mtDNA U4/U5 and South of them were Middle Eastern mtDNA, I think the Khvalynsk Culture were the conduit for mtDNA W3 and T1a1 spreading East and West, from Middle East via Caucasus.

@AboutTime
I also have stated many times, like you allude to, that IMO R and R1 originated in the Buluchistan region, together with R2 and Q and they represent the earliest proto Indo-Europeans.

My theory is that from there R1b spread across Northern Iran/Turkmenistan to the Middle East, first Southern Armenia, Assyria and then on to the Levant (Alawites), just South of the Taurus mountains. From there it could have island-hopped via Cyprus to the Ligurian coast - just North of Corsica - or else via boat to Albania, then on to the the Po valley and on to the Ligurian coast, or it's possible it went via the Maikop culture to the North Balkans, then on to the Po Valley and Liguria.

pconroy said...

Also, the higher Scottish ANE, is from pre-Viking Scandinavian connections between Northern Britain (and possibly Ireland) and Scandinavia.

For good measure my parents are Irish, living in Ireland, and mtDNA H5k (which appears to be an Irish clase) and T1a1, which is Middle Eastern, Central Russian, Romanian and found from the Tarim Basin to Pakistan to Ireland.

Ebizur said...

About Time wrote,

"Cord-decorated pottery goes back a long way in Asia, well before CWC proper shows up in NE Europe. Jomon in Japan had a variation of cord ornamented pottery, if memory serves."

Actually, it is the literal meaning of the word 縄文 jōmon, which is Sino-Japanese for "cord-marked" (< Chinese 繩 shéng "cord, rope" + Chinese 文 wén "literature, writing; culture; mark, pattern (of lines)"). The term was coined in reference to the 縄文土器 jōmon doki "cord-marked earthenware" discovered in archaeological sites in Japan, and then extended to refer metonymically to the entire archaeological culture characterized by such pottery (縄文文化 jōmon bunka "Cord-marked/Corded (Earthenware) Culture") and the era during which such pottery has been manufactured (縄文時代 jōmon jidai "Cord-Marked/Corded (Earthenware) Period/Era/Age").

About Time said...

@PC, interesting theory. I always like hearing models, because they come in handy to test against new data - especially when data throw us a curveball. Like MA1 did!

Grey said...

"Couple all of this with the fact that German Beakers have weak relation to the Mediterranean and zero to Mediterranean islands. There is no evidence of island hopping."

If the PIE while first developing their horse-borne raiding technique displaced the people from the western shore of the Black Sea then the displaced population could go in three directions: maritime route, Danube route and northern forest route with three different outcomes.


"I think that the argument that R1b can be tracked by beakers is ridiculous. One should look at metal working, weapons and ornamentation."

Is there any possibility that the distinctive shape of the beakers had their origin in copper working?

(no idea, just curious)

Grey said...

"with three different outcomes"

should be

"with potentially three or more different outcomes"

Chad Rohlfsen said...

pcconroy,
I am not sure about the whole IE, Khvalynsk deal, but it is possible. David Anthony likes to think that the migrations to Germany from the Balkans were Celtic and possibly Germanic speakers. If that is the case, I think the only one that will match is R1b.

I think that R1b entered the Steppes in the Mesolithic or Neolithic with domesticated animals. Also the fact that any difference in ANE in Europe from West to East, and North to South can pretty much be explained away by survival of ANE from the Mesolithic in the North and East. There appears to be little difference between CWC and BBC in terms of ANE.

German BBC has eastern metal working, simplified ornamentation, tanged daggers, and most importantly it is a single grave culture of a new physical type and our first R1b. I don't see how Corded could explain ANE when it only lasted a couple hundred years West of Poland. BBC took it out rather rapidly and spread back across Europe. Personally, I don't think we should even call the German group Bell Beakers, but something else. Pottery stayed basically the same as they moved west with new burials and metal working. It seems that women didn't move a whole lot, while the men did. R1b simply doesn't have anything that matches a West to East movement, or any affinity to the Mediterranean coast or islands.

To make a long story short, we have corded beakers, tanged daggers in Khvalynsk, later burial mounds are added as it moves to around old Tripolye lands, and then onto Germany and the rest of Western Europe. Again, I see no reason to suggest that following pottery as a male movement makes any more sense than to suggest that metal working techniques and weapons show female movement. Obviously females who preferred corded pottery came West with R1b and their simple ornamentation, daggers, and single-burial culture. As they move West they take on more local women and local types of All-over-ornamented and the Maritime Beakers, which continue after the arrival of this new male package.