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Thursday, May 25, 2017

A few more ancient genomes from the Balkans and Iberia


Open access at Current Biology:

Our results show major Western hunter-gatherer (WHG) ancestry in a Romanian Eneolithic sample [GB1_Eneo] with a minor, but sizeable, contribution from Anatolian farmers, suggesting multiple admixture events between hunter-gatherers and farmers.


González-Fortes et al., Paleogenomic Evidence for Multi-generational Mixing between Neolithic Farmers and Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers in the Lower Danube Basin, Current Biology, Published Online: May 25, 2017, DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2017.05.023

See also...

The genomic history of Southeastern Europe (Mathieson et al. 2017 preprint)

82 comments:

Gioiello said...

Helas! Western European hunter-gatherers. mt hg. U and Y hg. R. My victory is complete!

Davidski said...

And after your victory parade through Rome, you can retire.

Ryan said...

Any chance you'll be able to get your hands on these samples? The ADMIXTURE run doesn't do a great job distinguishing between EHG and WHG, and it's hard to eyeball from the PCA. I'm particularly curious about GB_1 - he clearly seems to lack CHG admixture, but I don't think it shows if he had any EHG/ANE in him. If he's similar to KO-1 he probably does have a bit of ANE.

I think the question about how GB_1's WHG ancestry compares to different WHG samples is a very interesting one. I wouldn't be surprised if one group of WHG had a bigger impact in a wide swath of Europe than others - replacing local WHG ancestry to an extent.

Cossue said...

Nice. The woman from Chan do Lindeiro, who was named Elba by the researchers, is actually the first ancient published genome from Galicia, in the extreme NW of Iberia. Given that our soil is extremely acid, it's a great new.

Rob said...

Gio
The 2 Iberians were female :(

Gioiello said...

Rob, we know facts from so long. WHG hg. R1b1 survived in Italy and replaced all the other HG after the Youger Dryas or a few early. Thus in Iberia there wasn't any hg. R. The first arrived with the migration of Zilhao 7500 years ago: R-V88, deeply rooted in Italy, as I have demonstrated from many yrears. The rest will come.

Ir Pegasus said...

All those mesolitic R1b come from the Epigravitan culture of final paleolite.
(E)neolite of Balkan does not continue it's mesolite.

Rob said...

Okay I agree overall
But you'll need some stein aDNA evidence for L51 conviction

Rob said...

Pegasus
That's a pretty broad, and wrong, statement

Ir Pegasus said...

"Epigravettian culture Italy, Villabruna, Sovramonte – Belluno, Veneto 12230-11830 calBCE R1b1a"

"Romanian Mesolithic Samples Are Not Directly Representative of the HG Ancestry in the Eneolithic Sample GB1_Eneo"


Ryan said...

Gio - "Rob, we know facts from so long. WHG hg. R1b1 survived in Italy and replaced all the other HG after the Youger Dryas or a few early."

That's demonstrably false. La Brana, Loschbour, KO-1 and Motala all post-date the Younger Dryas. Sorry. R1b was definitely a common WHG lineage, but it wasn't the only one. I and C were still running around.

Rob said...

Pegasus
Okay so your statement only applies to the one sample they tested

Gioiello said...

Ryan, we know from so long that WHG were the same autosomally, and the last paper of Mathieson said clearly that R1, I2 and C1 were the Y and U, K1 and H the mt (and perhaps Others), but the R1b1 survived only in Italy, and what we are found in eastern Europe came from Italy, but Italy was the core, and L51 will be found there, Be sure.

Ir Pegasus said...

Rob
Iron Gates HG also obey this rule.

Alberto said...

Interesting to see an Eneolithic farmer (c. 3400 BC) with 62% WHG admixture. I wonder if he's an outlier or if we could find more like him in that population.

truth said...

The PCA looks very strange, with some modern europeans almost touching the hunter-gatherers. If we take in account that the Eneolithic ROmanian sample is 62% WHG, and he is just left and under of many modern europeans,

alobrix said...

You should test if the contemporary galicians share more drift with the woman from Chan do Lindeiro (some upper paleolithic affinity) or with others WHG groups. Is there a bit of continuity from upper paleolithic populations?

Samuel Andrews said...

There's the Blatterhole guys and now this Eneolithic guy from Romania. Both died around 3400 BC, both over 50% WHG.

Ryan said...

@Gio " but the R1b1 survived only in Italy, and what we are found in eastern Europe came from Italy"

There is literally 0 evidence of this.

Samuel Andrews said...

@Gioiello,

R1b1 may have originated in WHGs in Italy but R1b L151 didn't originate in Italy or spread out of Italy.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

R1b1 didn't come from Italy. Anyone that knows anything about archaeology knows that. There is zero evidence of a big expansion out of Italy. R1b1 likely arose in the Moldova -Ukraine area 24-21 kya. It's the appearance of shoulder-backed and microgravette pieces together before they become more separated with Epigravettians and northern deer hunters. Mark my words.

Romulus said...

The Spanish and Romanian hunter-gatherer samples are composed entirely of the “blue” component, which is also found in other European hunter-gatherer samples, with the exception of the oldest Spanish Mesolithic sample, Chan_Meso, which also has a “lilac” component found in South Indians.

What's goin on here?

Davidski said...

Out of India confirmed.

Probably linked to the expansion of Zebu cattle and mice too.

Chad Rohlfsen said...

Italy was repopulated by hunters from SE Europe. Not the other way around. Repeating something one hundred times won't make it any more true than the first time it's uttered.

Josep Coderch said...

Interesting to note that out of the five WHGs in the study only 1 has blue eyes. If I'm not mistaken all WHGs to date have shown blue eyes.

@Romulus
Just like la Braña. I remember how this showed as "oceanian" in some tests.

Anthro Survey said...

@Samuel

Indeed, I think that r1b1 was established across large swathes of east europe and russia prior to any yamnaya formation.

But the present distribution of the common clades in europe today is definitely due to spread of steppeDNA-carriers.

Ir Pegasus said...

With K=20 the "lilac" component is absent.

Ir Pegasus said...

Josep Coderch said...
Interesting to note that out of the five WHGs in the study only 1 has blue eyes. If I'm not mistaken all WHGs to date have shown blue eyes.


The Iron Gates HG also have not got blue eyes. This is Balkanian WHG's feature.

Romulus said...

How much CHG do modern Iranians and North Indians have compared to EEF? Do they have EEF?

Nirjhar007 said...

No Indians don't have the EEF .

Davidski said...

High caste Indians probably do have some EEF.

In South Asia EEF might show a strong correlation with Z93 frequencies, because there was EEF on the Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe where Indo-Aryan languages are from.

bellbeakerblogger said...

Seems a little odd that this population and Samara/Yamnaya can be characterized almost as a two way hybrid between a male HG population and a southerly feminine farmer population of sorts.

At least from these Y-chromosomes it seems a fraternity, here 100%. It raises a question to how this process played out in more than one place, but roughly the same time.

I assume these guys lack ANE??

Davidski said...

@BBB

At least from these Y-chromosomes it seems a fraternity, here 100%. It raises a question to how this process played out in more than one place, but roughly the same time.

Seems like there was a somewhat different process in the Balkans than on the steppe.

In the Balkans the Mesolithic Y-hg R disappeared during the Neolithic and was replaced by farmer G2. The minimal Mesolithic European admix in the farmers came from females carrying mtDNA U.

However, from the Middle Neolithic onwards, Mesolithic-derived I2a from somewhere, probably from along the Danube, came into the Balkan farmer gene pool and largely replaced the G2. I'd say that the father of GB1_Eneo probably belonged to I2a, but it's obviously impossible to be sure.

On the steppe the Y-hgs were always Mesolithic European, so the admixture appears to have come in with women mostly with Near Eastern mtDNA hgs from the Caucasus and Balkans.

Nirjhar007 said...

Late Bronze Age Steppe where Indo-Aryan languages are from.

B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T

Gioiello said...

@ Samuel Andrews

"@Gioiello,

R1b1 may have originated in WHGs in Italy but R1b L151 didn't originate in Italy or spread out of Italy".

Samuel, I am writing about that from more than ten years, and if you had read me, you would have known my position. Of course many things changed meanwhile, but my analyses said that L11 had three place of expansion: the Baltic, Eastern Alps and above all the Isles and lands around the Channel. We are speaking of course of L11 (xP312, U106). I said that the huge presence in the Isles could be done from the German migrations from Baltic till Crimea, Burgundia etc. Strangely Italy, which has all the oldest subclades of R1b1, is very poor of L11, but we have the oldest L11 which very likely breaks the SNPs at the same level, being positive only for P310 and P311 from his FTDNA pack. This man is Amerighi, from the noble family of Siena, who thought to be a descendant of King David (laugh) and lastly from Theuderic from Provence. Being of an old noble family, I said that a German origin is possible, also likely, but we don't know if he descends form a Tuscan ot Italian old haplotype. You should know that we are finding, with our poor means, the oldest haplotypes of every haplogroups in the lands between Tuscany and Liguria, also an R-L277 with DYS389I=13, DYS392=13 and DYS389II=29, whereas all the others have 13 14 28...

Gioiello said...

All who said that Italy was done from migrationists from everywhere, have always forgotten that we should find some close haplotype up there for saying that that Italian haplotype came from there, and we don't find them, so I always said: but did all they come here? My R-L23-Z2110 is the key fo understanding the expansion of R-L23, being very likely the oldest haplotype survived (the others are more recent as to the separation from upstream haplotypes and expansion), but now I am finding haplotypes of my line with the SNP FGC24408 not only in a French Basque and an Englishman and also in an Armenian and an Arab from Kuwait, so I really don't know where my hapltype was born and where it expanded from...

Samuel Andrews said...

Gioiello you should put all of the unique R1b samples you have into a google spreadsheet so we an look at it.

Ryan said...

@Romulus, @Josep - Yah, this weird association with South Asia or Southeast Asia has come up with other older samples or those showing continuity with the first modern humans in Iberia. It's something very old, and it's probably just grabbing on to something Onge-like as the best proxy for a population that we don't have any samples of.

Ryan said...

@BBB, @David

At least from these Y-chromosomes it seems a fraternity, here 100%. It raises a question to how this process played out in more than one place, but roughly the same time.

On the steppe the Y-hgs were always Mesolithic European, so the admixture appears to have come in with women mostly with Near Eastern mtDNA hgs from the Caucasus and Balkans.

Sure, but we have this same pattern of HG men and EEF women showing up in Iberian Bell Beakers, Neolithic Britain and Blatterhole too. Add GB_1 and Yamaya to that as well.

What was behind this? Was there some kind of change in climate or a disease that made hunter-gatherers suddenly the dominant group? Allowing them to basically hijack farming communities?

Or was there one specific group of hunter gatherers that had some sort of cultural innovation that let them spread out across and dominate Europe?

That's why I think discovering which hunter-gatherer groups contributed how much and where is really important to understanding Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe. Whatever process was going on it has a lot of similarities to Yamnaya too, so it may be key to understanding the origins of IE languages too. IIRC didn't your models show that the true original IE speakers had a touch more WHG ancestry than the Yamnaya samples we have too?

On the steppe the Y-hgs were always Mesolithic European, so the admixture appears to have come in with women mostly with Near Eastern mtDNA hgs from the Caucasus and Balkans.

Let's be honest though David - we don't know enough about ancient R1b samples to really tell if one group of R1b hunter gatherers replaced another. For most ancient samples we're lucky to know that they were R1b1 or R1b1a, and don't even know if they were M269 negative or positive. We just don't know anything about the structure of R1b among WHG/EHG populations - or at least we know very little of it. The data set just isn't robust enough yet.

I think it's a mistake to assume hunter gatherers were fixed in place before the Chalcolithic though. For all we know there could have been hunter gatherer folks speaking para-IE languages spreading around outside the steppe before the main IE expansion, and there could have been (almost certainly were) non-IE speakers wandering into the steppe too.

Do you think it would be feasible to do some sort of a treemix with the hunter gatherer and early/middle neolithic samples we have right now (including those in these paper if they are available)? Ideally spanning Iberia right to the Volga. It would not surprise me if Latvian HGs contributing to French ones who then contribute to Romanian farmers or something complex like that though. I think Mesolithic to Middle Neolithic Europe was a pretty dynamic place.

Gioiello said...

@ Samuel Andrews
"Gioiello you should put all of the unique R1b samples you have into a google spreadsheet so we an look at it".

I did that many times also here for R-V88, using the YFull tree and adding all the samples from Italy that I think belong to some subclades, and now I may add Galea from Malta but of Italian origin just downstream FGC20970 (but I asked him to test the SNP downstream giving that SNP as discounted positive as in fact it was, and FTDNA didn't do that; he is the ancestor of the Iberian and Jewish cluster). Now I may add Avery from the Isles at the Y7771 level but V69-, ancestor of all the African and Middle Eastern R-V88-V69, and an Italian is there too, Rosano.
But ask yourself why Sergey Malyshev is not updating his R-M343 tree from pretty one year, in spite that I asked that to him many times, and above all why the YFull tree is out... But Davidski would say that I believe to conspiracies...
R-V88 from Italy: definitely demonstrated
R-V88 Z30230/Y7770 * V88/PF6279 * PF6332+59 SNPs15400 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 13400 10200 ybp" class="age"formed 17100 ybp, TMRCA 11700 ybp
R-V88*
⦁ id:YF07201 [ITALY and UK]
R-M18 PF6372 * PF6319 * YP5453+34 SNPs
⦁ id:ERS256975ITA [IT-CA]
⦁ id:ERS256965ITA [IT-CA]
R-Y7777 SK2065/FGC21014/Y7777 * Y7768 * FGC21018/Y8460+10 SNPs10200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 11000 8200 ybp" class="age"formed 11700 ybp, TMRCA 9600 ybp
R-Y7777*
⦁ id:YF07902 GBR [and ITALY and France]
R-Y8451 FGC20993/Y7786 * FGC21063/Y7784 * FGC21033/Y8445+15 SNPs8200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 8900 6400 ybp" class="age"formed 9600 ybp, TMRCA 7600 ybp
R-Y8451*
R-V35 V35
⦁ id:ERS256961ITA [IT-CA]

The R-V88 in Iberia (7100 YBP) very likely with the migration from Italy Zilhao spoke about.

epoch2013 said...

Now in the proper thrtead:

That is interesting. Apparently a derived SLC24A5 in early mesolithic Spain. And quite some diversity as well. I wonder how both these samples would score on the Asian, Middle-Eastern and ANE admixture found in Fu et al.

Furthermore, we know that Magdalenian can be modeled as a mixture of Goyet116 and proto-Villabruna. Lately La Brana has been modeled as WHG + 35% extra something, related to K14. Why doesn't this paper do D-stats like this?

Mbuti Goyet116-1; Chan-Meso, Canes1-Meso

Are these samples out yet? Will they get out?

Matt said...

AnthroSurvey: Indeed, I think that r1b1 was established across large swathes of east europe and russia prior to any yamnaya formation.

R1b1a was probably well across Europe as a whole at lower frequency, given the findings in Iberian farmers (Early Neolithic+Iberian Beaker), and the Blatterhohle samples, and that would also make more sense of the Chadian clade R1b1a2.

Seems pretty unlikely to be a strictly Eastern Europe+Central Asian distribution by the Holocene (if that was even a centre of origin, though it's likely not Iberia, so that leaves about the Italian, Balkan and Ukraine possibilities at least).

Antoni Małkowski said...

Co do wieku BY593 jest też spora rozbieżność YFULL
R V2986 formed 1800 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybp
Tu jest rzetelna rozprawa
http://www.projectory.de/genetics/str/2017-05-21/y-str-report.pdf

BY593 jest dwukrotne starsze.

epoch2013 said...

@Chad Rohlfsen

Considering the slight ANE admixture I'd say it is absolutely clear it had eastern contact. However, considering that El Miron, who dates from the tail end of LGM, has both a chunk WHG and the same Middle-Eastern affinity I would no be surprised if WHG originated as a mixture from several groups in Italy. Another Magdalenian, GoyetQ-2 has almost similar Middle-Eastern affinity as WHG's. Also, U5b2b mtDNA was found similar aged (19k-18K yo) in Paglicci71.

Can WHG be modeled as Gravettian + El Miron (or Goyet116-1) + a tad ANE? Or as El Miron with other mixtures from ancient ice age samples?

Samuel Andrews said...

@epoch2013,
"Can WHG be modeled as Gravettian + El Miron (or Goyet116-1) + a tad ANE? Or as El Miron with other mixtures from ancient ice age samples?"

Yep, I think WHG could definitely have some ANE. To find who their ancestors are though demands intense sampling of Paleo genomes.

The conclusion that they didn't because MA1 isn't any more related to WHG than to Paleolithic Western Europeans is a naive conclusion. Would if WHG had ancestry from people less related to MA1 than Paleo Western Europeans? If so that would leave room for some ANE ancestry. EHG is more related to WHG than to modern Europeans but modern Europeans have EHG ancestry.

Grey said...

I think we're seeing an earlier version of Ertobolle where sedentary coastal HGs around the Black Sea coast adopted animal husbandry from adjacent farmers because a) they were too numerous to displace and b) they lived on terrain unsuitable for crop farming anyway.

Cossue said...

The remains of Elba, the WHG woman from Galicia, were found in a collapsed cave, together with that of three aurochs. They all fell together 15m when the soil collapsed under their feet (and hooves):

http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/05/10/diario_de_espana/1494406591_973226.html

So, animal husbandry in Western Europe 9300 years ago??

(By the way, in the 3D reconstruction she still looks Galician, or at least as some Galician women).

MaxT said...

@Cossue

Most likely they were being chased by aurochs

Gioiello said...

@ Nirjhar007

Nirj-ha
ma vai a caà
'un sarai mia
ghjaupo?

Ric Hern said...

Sorry this may not be totally on topics however it is Balkan related:

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/graecopithecus-freybergi-hominin-04888.html

bellbeakerblogger said...

@Davidski,
I got what you're saying, but I'm not sure I'd treat the Danube drainage in the Black Sea as the same geographical unit as the rest of the Balkans. Maybe they didn't contribute much of anything to later people, but interesting where it is in relation to the farmer girl thing.

@Ryan,
It's possible the rise of hunter male lines with farmer women has something to do with the difference in builds between HG men and Farmer men. A lot of these farmer folk evolved to be rather small and frail people. Not a good thing in a time when hand to hand combat is the rule and population and violence is increasing

Cossue said...

@MaxT

Yes, I guess so :-) But it was fun thinking about people 9000 years ago doing exactly what most people were doing here just, well, yesterday: leading the cows to graze in the morning!

epoch2013 said...

@Davidski

If you could spare the time, what does this do:

Mbuti EHG Villabruna Loschbour
Mbuti EHG Villabruna El_Miron
Mbuti EHG Villabruna Bichon

Romulus said...

It's a shame that none of the recent Mesolithic European samples were tested for blood type snps. Rhesus factor incompatibility could be a huge factor in the decline of mtdna U.

Matt said...

@ Bell Beaker Blogger, re: A lot of these farmer folk evolved to be rather small and frail people. Not a good thing in a time when hand to hand combat is the rule and population and violence is increasing

Height differences seems probably true (per Martiniano 2017 and so on), so yes, smaller (less stature, and at the same BMI, probably lighter). Less sure about frail though? Is that empirically backed?

There's a study here on the topic of limb bone strength - http://www.pnas.org/content/112/23/7147.full.pdf. For lower limbs (tibia+femur), there's a consistent decline in anteroposterior strength, associated to lower mobility and the estimated bone strength for Neolithic groups looks higher than Bronze Age. I wouldn't be surprised by that necessarily. For the upper limbs, humeral strength doesn't show a trend.

Similar kind of study on Oetzi - https://www.natur.cuni.cz/biology/biologie/antropologie/pracoviste-katedry/laborator-antropologie-kostni-tkane-folder/Ruffetal.2006.JHE.pdf, who was a rather strong / stockily built individual relative to his pretty short height (relatively high body mass relative to height) and his tibia is particularly robust compared to the average of Neolithic and Bronze Age samples.

("Given the increased prevalence of obesity (i.e., excess fat) in recent industrialized societies, and the unlikelihood of such a body composition in the Iceman, perhaps a better comparison is with the male Olympic athletes measured by Tanner (1964): the Iceman falls slightly above the average BMI for Tanner’s Euroamerican athletes (23.4, average of event-specific means) and falls closest to the wrestlers and decathlete (means of 24.2 and individual value of 24.3, respectively). Thus, the Iceman was likely very sturdily built")

So I don't know if that backs Neolithic groups being less robust relative to size per se, or a surgence of armed conflict in Bronze Age driving a generally more robust population.

Judging by bone strength we would probably consider the EEF rather robust people today, which would fit with a much more physically demanding lifestyle. It's probably fairly likely that taller HG (and steppe ancestry) males had some advantages over EEF males in the circumstances, so I think you're correct in pointing that out as a plausible factor, but thinking of the Early-Mid Neolithic farmers as gracile people who were replaced by more skeletally robust Bronze Age people may not be quite correct.

bellbeakerblogger said...

@Matt,
I don't know if there's a study that explicitly tackles the overall health and stature of Neolithic folk as a whole, but it seems to be often commented on by osteologists when comparing population turnovers, like between hunters and Neolithic individuals, or Neolithics to EBA. Animal protein and fat rich diet, maybe healthy gene pool too seems to make a big difference.
But yes, sickly...maybe 'peasant farmer' creates a better word picture

Gioiello said...

I ask myself which has Bertolini
12 24 14 11 13-14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 26 15 19 27 15-15-16-18 10 12 16-23 16 16 16 19 35-37 11 12
to do with these samples linked to him by only one SNP (BY13762)?
_f2e. R1b-Z2103, Z2105 > Y4362, L277 > PH945
M10384 Kuwait R-BY13762
12 23 14 10 11-14 12 12 14 13 14 28 18 9-10 11 11 25 16 19 30 15-15-16-19 11 11 19-23 15 15 17 17 36-40 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-24 16 10 12 12 16 7 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 25 26 19 11 11 12 12 10 9 13 12 10 10 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 18 13 24 19 14 15 24 12 24 19 10 14 17 9 11 11
M11828 Unknown Origin R-BY13762
12 23 14 11 11-14 12 12 13 13 14 28 19 9-10-10 11 11 25 16 19 30 15-15-16-16-19-19 11 11 19-23 15 15 17 17 36-38-39 12 12 12 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-24 16 10 12 12 16 7 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 25 26 19 11 11 11 12 10 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 18 13 24 19 14 15 24 12 24 19 10 14 18 9 11 11
M6552 Middle East Unknown Origin R-BY13762
12 23 14 11 11-14 12 12 14 13 14 28 18 9-10 11 11 25 16 19 31 15-15-16-19 11 12 19-23 16 15 18 17 35-40 11 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 14 9 16 12 26 26 18 11 11 13 12 10 9 13 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 20 15 18 13 24 19 14 15 24 12 24 19 10 14 17 9 11 11
234905 Grigoriy Ivanov (1935-1996), Pskovskaya region, RU Russian Federation R-Y4364
12 24 14 10 11-15 12 12 12 12 14 27 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-16-19 11 11 19-23 15 17 18 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 23 19 12 12 11 13 11 11 13 12
46561 Vardevar Ketenjian, b.c. 1850, Geben, Cilicia Turkey R-BY13762
12 24 14 10 12-13 12 12 12 13 14 28 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14-15-16-18 11 11 19-22 16 16 17 18 34-36 11 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12
184611 Melik Parsadan I, 17th C., Syunik, Armenia Armenia R-BY13762
12 24 14 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 14 28 15 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-15-16-17-17 11 10 19-23 15 16 18 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-16 7 11 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 35 15 9 16 12 25 26 19 11 11 13 12 10 9 13 12 10 11 11 31 12 12 24 13 10 10 20 15 19 13 24 18 13 15 24 12 24 18 10 14 17 9 11 11

Gioiello said...

And which have I to do with these samples, above all with M11086 from Kuwait, linked to me from only the SNP FGC24408? More linked the Western Europeans (to add a French Basque) who share with me 16 SNP. Also the Armenian shares with me the SNP SK2907, one of the 16 SNPs in common:
_f3a1. R1b-Z2103 > Z2106 >Z2109 > CTS7822 > FGC24408
184381 Melik-Matevosian, Banants, Gardmank, Armenia Armenia R-SK2097
12 24 13 11 12-14 12 13 13 13 13 30 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 14-15-16-18 10 11 19-23 15 16 20 18 36-38 13 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 9 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 22 14 12 11 13 10 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 11 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 14 10 9 20 15 19 14 23 19 13 15 24 12 23 18 9 14 19 9 11 11
272057 Winterowd Unknown Origin R-SK2097
12 24 14 11 11-15 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 26 15 18 29 14-15-16-18 12 12 19-23 14 16 18 17 37-38 13 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-24 15 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 32 15 9 16 12 24 26 19 11 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 14 24 14 10 9 19 15 19 13 24 17 12 15 25 12 23 17 10 14 17 9 11 11
H1614 Antonio del Badia (1449-?) Castelfiorentino (Firenze Italy) R-Z2105
12 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 12 29 16 9-10 11 11 24 15 19 29 14-14-16-17 10 11 19-23 16 15 19 17 36-37 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-24 16 10 12 12 16 8 12 22 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 32 15 9 16 11 25 26 19 12 11 13 12 10 9 12 11 10 11 11 30 12 14 24 14 10 9 20 15 19 14 23 18 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 18 9 11 11
H1621 Antonio del Badia (1449-?) Castelfiorentino (Firenze Italy) R-M269
12 24 15 10 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 28 14-14-16-17 10 11 19-23 16 12 12 13 13 11 30 12 14 24 14 10 23 11
M11086 Unknown Origin R-CTS7822
12 24 15 11 11-14 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 10 11 24 15 18 29 14-15-16-18 11 12 19-22 15 16 17 16 36-36 12 12 11 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 24-25 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 32 15 9 16 12 27 26 18 12 11 14 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 31 12 13 25 14 10 10 20 15 19 12 24 17 12 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
But these haplotypes could be just the proof of the migration of the EEF from Northern Anatolia/Aegean Sea to Central Europe before giving life to Etruscans and related peoples like Rhaetians and Camuns. The link may be old also 6000 years (as to YFull) or also 7000/8000 as to me.
Perhaps it is useful to say that there are also two Sardinian R-CTS7822, and Sardinians are considered pure EEF.

Davidski said...

@epoch

Mbuti EHG Villabruna Loschbour 0.0047 0.863 835256
Mbuti EHG Villabruna ElMiron -0.0432 -7.515 572788
Mbuti EHG Villabruna Bichon -0.0046 -0.814 842932

Ryan said...

@Sam - "There's the Blatterhole guys and now this Eneolithic guy from Romania. Both died around 3400 BC, both over 50% WHG."

I think the key to both understanding the origins of Bell Beakers and Indo-Europeans lies in understanding this same processes.

Ryan said...

@BBB

It's possible the rise of hunter male lines with farmer women has something to do with the difference in builds between HG men and Farmer men. A lot of these farmer folk evolved to be rather small and frail people. Not a good thing in a time when hand to hand combat is the rule and population and violence is increasing

They also may have just been better fed, regardless of genetics. I think the real question that is important to answer is if this was many hunter gatherer groups taking advantage of this independently from one another, or one group of hunter gatherers that found success over a large swath of Europe.

Um Mero Aprendiz a toa said...

One possible response to imbalance between the number of men and women in a society is linked below:

Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1343497/Greens-means-girls-Research-claims-vegetable-diet-gives-daughters.html

A diet rich in vegetables, typical of agrarian societies, can produce offspring with more females than males. Contrary, in a population with diet rich in animal proteins may favor offspring with more males than females.

So, the acceptance of excess hunter-gatherer males in the farmer's society may have been a matter of necessity, not esthetical.

Anthro Survey said...

Davidski, some material on new genome-skis waiting to be posted by you. I can't wait-ski!

(Caananites and all)

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448

Romulus said...

Cananites are J1a2b3a and J2b2a1a1

Salden said...

The Caananite Study apparently debunks the claim that Palestinians (at least, not the Christian ones who are also called Israeli Arabs) are the closest living population to the Biblical Israelites. It actually shows modern Assyrians having the closest affinity to the sample. And Palestinians down there with Arabian populations.

Salden said...

Let me rephrase that: Palestinians who aren't Christian/Israeli Arab apparently aren't the closest modern population to the Biblical Israelites. Of the populations used modern Assyrians had the most affinity with the Caananite sample while Palestinians were down there with Arabians.

bellbeakerblogger said...

Abraham the J-man. Almost total paternal turnover between the Neolithic and the EBA.

Salden said...

Interestingly enough, the Old Testament claims Abraham was of Mesopotamian descent. It looks like there might have something to that all along.

Anthro Survey said...

@Salden:

It's a bit surprising that the statistic was so positive for Lebanese Muslims, actually. That still doesn't mean that Caananites aren't their primary ancestral substratum, but that was a curveball. The history of Lebanon provides no obvious clues.

Palestinians are less of a surprise: they are georgaphically proximal to Arabia Proper and Arab introgression into the area has been documented to take place, especially in the 1700s and 1800s. Massive bedouin migrations.

These bedouin movements Islamized the character of the region which was perhaps 50-60% Christian prior to this. Still, at the time of the Ottoman collapse, Christians were maybe 20-30% of the population.

Rob said...

BBB
Big call from a sample of 2 :)

Rob said...

So this suggests the Semitic languages came from (south) Mesopotamia (?)

Olympus Mons said...

@Rob.
Hi. Descendents of Uruk?

rozenfag said...

@Rob Technically of 4: there are also I1705: J1(xJ1a) and I1730:J(xJ1,J2a,J2b2a) from Early Bronze Age Jordan.

Rob said...

Yeah maybe. I don't know much at all about such languages, but just following the genetic trail there.
I suspect for political reason there'll be avid attempts to claim Semitic languages are still from the south Levant, despite the data.

Olympus Mons said...

@Rob,
I just want to know who F*ck my shulaveri. I still think were J Ydna from Hassuna and Samarra, but linked to an Ubaid turning Uruk movement... :)

Rob said...

Rozen / BB
Correction noted

batman said...

Davidski,

"R1b1 likely arose in the Moldova -Ukraine area 24-21 kya."

No emprirical testimony - sensu strictu - of the extant R1b1-lines occuring before the end of the Younger Dryas.

The lowlands along the rivers Dniester/Djepr-Bug/Vistula- Oder/Elbe - connecting Moldova/W Ukraine tp Poland/Pomerania and Meclenburg/Jutland is a pretty good assesment, though.

So far the earliest known Holstein-cattle (post-aurochs) is dated to the start of the Holocene - from the mildeast shores of early Holocene. This origin may explain the trek of aurochses and cows along the Atlantic facade, as well.

Not to mention the lactose persistance, along with R1b.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs#/media/File:Bos_primigenius_Vig_uroksen.jpg

batman said...

Romulus,

"Cananites are J1a2b3a and J2b2a1a1"

Here we maty have a genuin "Out-of-India"-movement.

A group of descendants from the Indo-Aryan nobility and populus are already explained to have migrated west along withe the Elamo-Dravidan language. This migration may be explained by the 'Akkadians', who conquered the Sumerian agriculturalists, errased their Greco-Sumerian-Levantian G2-nbility - forcing their way with the indigenous women. Thus becomming ancestral to the new dyansties of Hyksos/Hiburu, as well as the contemporary Phoeneciens and the later Akka-menids.

This rather massive intrusion is followed by oldest known weapons of manslaugther, made during the middle an later half of BA, 4.200-3.900 BP, when the first, known culture of war and conquest is seen as a politcal and economical tool.

The archaeological traces of this was can be followed FROM the Persaian bay and the "New Babylon" to the shores of the Levant and the Nile. That would explain the I-E basis of the title 'Brahmin"/"Brahman" - and the re-defined title I-bra-him/A-Bra-am.

batman said...

"So this suggests the Semitic languages came from (south) Mesopotamia (?)"

That suggestion is not new. This result just adds another piece of evidence.

You may check the elamo-dravidian language as a possible origin of the semittic language - as one branch moved north along Eufrat into the Levant, while another traded along the coast to the "Red (Punic) Sea", the Horn of Afroica and eastern Egypt - from the south-east.

Which even offers another explanation to the origin of the "Afro-Asiatic languages". The genetics of Somalia, Socotra and "Felix Arabia" is pretty significant in that circumstance.

Gioiello said...

Very interesting, but that hg. J weren't older than 5000 years in Middle East and introgressed from Caucasus (or Iran), I am saying from so long through the uniparental markers of to-day and the YFull tree. The mt lines are extinct, and no influence of Phoenicians in the Mediterranean peoples has been demonstrated (for lacking more samples from ME, the authors say), and this very likely dislikes who probably funds these studies from so long ...

Unknown said...


>Helas! Western European hunter-gatherers. mt hg. U and Y hg. R. My victory is complete!

All or almost all WHGs were admixed with ANE or some east eurasian population that ANEs were also admixed with. R haplogroups are most likely from that eastern admixture. Villabruna can even be modeled as Ust'-Ishim admixed.

Grey said...

Anthro Survey said...

"Palestinians are less of a surprise: they are georgaphically proximal to Arabia Proper and Arab introgression into the area has been documented to take place, especially in the 1700s and 1800s. Massive bedouin migrations."

I don't know anything about this but purely from that sentence it sounds like this *might* be an historical example of a herder population moving onto land that had become too marginal for crop farming thereby changing the demographics?

(i.e. possibly something that has happened before)