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Monday, January 29, 2018

Paleoeuropeoid (steppe herder) infiltration into South Central Asia during the Bronze Age (Dubova et al. 2016)


I don't usually take cranial studies very seriously, mostly because they have a history of being way out of the ballpark. However, Interaction between Steppe and Agricultural Tribes during the Bronze Age: Morphological Aspects by Dubova et al. 2016 is, at the very least, a decent read. A preprint of this paper is freely available at Academia.edu HERE. One day, hopefully in the not too distant future, we'll see a paper like this based on ancient genomes. And I'm pretty sure that the results won't look much different. Emphasis is mine:

Abstract: Here we discuss the results of research conducted on the variability of anthropological features of the populations of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, China, etc., from the Late Stone Age and Bronze Age. A detailed analysis was carried out on 85 craniological series from burial grounds at Gonur and Buston VI (see Table 1). We examined skulls from the steppe, forest-steppe, desert, and semi-desert areas of Central Asia, Ural, Siberia and the North Caucasus. Factor analysis was used to explore the data obtained. Four factors, describing more than 70% of craniological variations, were extracted. The first factor (describing 29.6% of variability) differentiated groups according to the lengthwise sizes of the head and face, mostly taking into consideration cranial breadth, bezygomatic diameter, and orbit width, as well as minimum frontal diameters, upper face and nose heights. The second factor (17.4% of variability) differentiated groups mainly according to facial height, nose and orbit heights. The highest loadings of the third factor, which determined 14.9% of variability, considered important characteristics such as cranial length and breadth, and the fourth factor (10,4% of variability) – nose breadth. As a result, we identified two major anthropological groups: the first comprising North Kazakhstan, South Siberia, Altai, and Ural-Volga, populations with larger latitudinal proportions of the head and face, as well as a smaller width of the forehead, upper face height, and height of the nose; and the second comprising the southern territories, including the majority of the populations of Iran, Pakistan, the Indus valley, and the southern regions of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan as well, who had the opposite combination of features: long and narrow heads, high, narrow faces and noses, and round orbits. The analysis conducted has enabled us to affirm that Southern Turkmenistan manifestations of minimal impurities with regard to anthropological components, which could be linked to pastoral surroundings, were not seen prior to the middle of the 2nd millennium BC.

...

New data has shed light on the interaction between the steppe pastoralists and the sedentary farmers. Cranial series from the southern regions of Central Asia, representing populations where the features of agricultural and pastoral cultures are combined (Kokcha III, Buston VI, Karaelematasai, and Patmasai, Djarkutan), have been clearly located between ‘typical’ farmers (Hasanlu, Gonur, Mohendjo Daro, Pakistani Timargarha and Butkara) and series from the territory of Kazakhstan, southern Siberia, and the Volga-Ural region. At the same time, Gonur skulls, from the necropolis situated in and around ruins of early buildings, and the Buston VI series, as well as those from later layers of Tepe Hissar in Iran, have been identified as having large transversal dimensions while maintaining the same height-sizes of traits of subjects uncovered from earlier periods at the same monuments. This might be connected primarily to the general brachicephalization processes manifested at that time. But it is also likely that this was the result of a gradual penetration of groups from the Eurasian Steppe to the south, which was initially random but then became increasingly common with frequent mating between steppe groups and farmers. The term “infiltration” best characterizes this process of mixing. It should be noted that the currently available archaeological materials from Gonur Depe reveal that around such major proto-urban centers (which Gonur was at the end of the 3rd-2nd millennium BC) already by the middle of the 2nd millennium BC herders were indigenous, as evidenced by small settlements of cattle breeders in the vicinity of the city walls (see for example: Hiebert & Moore, 2004; Cattani, 2004). In addition, separate (sporadic) steppe pottery fragments have been unearthed from some areas of the site and its surrounding smaller settlements (Sarianidi & Dubova, 2010, pp. 39-42). However, we must particularly emphasize that at Gonur (i.e., in Southern Turkmenistan) manifestations of minimal impurities in anthropological components, which could be linked to pastoral surroundings, were not seen prior to the middle of the 2nd millennium BC.

Another important point to bear in mind is that in the southern regions of Central Asia there were no Bronze Age sites (or earlier ones), where the presence of the so-called ‘Protoeuropean’ anthropological type (a massive variant with a large sized head, low and wide face, rectangular orbits, and with a flattening of the upper part of the face) was fixed. This variant has only been described by researchers in the northern regions of Central Asia. The groups with a small proportion of the ‘Paleoeuropeoid’ anthropological component in their composition reached southern regions in the Bronze Age. The most prevalent among them still being the Mediterranean type. Such a situation, of course, leads to an increase in mixed populations (i.e., in later groups including those of the Iron Age) with the characteristics presented in both groups becoming increasingly mixed (e.g. Mediterranean traits).

Dubova N.A., Junusbayev S.M., Saipov A.B., Interaction between Steppe and Agricultural Tribes during the Bronze Age: Morphological Aspects, Int. Journal of Anthropology – Vol. 31 – n.1-2 – 2016, DOI: 10.14673/IJA2016121026

See also...

Ancient herders from the Pontic-Caspian steppe crashed into India: no ifs or buts

Descendants of ancient European (fair?) maidens in Central Asia's highlands

Late PIE ground zero now obvious; location of PIE homeland still uncertain, but...

33 comments:

Davidski said...

Alright chaps, to calm things down, moderation is now on and will be on indefinitely.

Those of you who aren't yet on the banned commentators list are free to post comments.

However, please keep in mind that unless your comment is, at the very least, a genuine effort to make a real contribution, it won't appear here.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Davidski Thanks for the memo, and thanks for sharing this. I had a quick question, does this study suggest that there was hybridization between native and Steppe populations sometime during the Bronze Age, or was this hybridization sometime after the Bronze Age?

I am talking about this specific bit here:

" It should be noted that the currently available archaeological materials from Gonur Depe reveal that around such major proto-urban centers (which Gonur was at the end of the 3rd-2nd millennium BC) already by the middle of the 2nd millennium BC herders were indigenous, as evidenced by small settlements of cattle breeders in the vicinity of the city walls (see for example: Hiebert & Moore, 2004; Cattani, 2004)."

Thanks, would appreciate some feedback. If they were indigenous already by the mid-2nd millennium, so 1500 B.C.E., would that mean hybridization and possible BMACization?

Davidski said...

According to this paper, the mixing between the steppe herders and local SC Asian farmers started during the Bronze Age. Don't know how this relates to the so called process of BMACization.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Davidski

"According to this paper, the mixing between the steppe herders and local SC Asian farmers started during the Bronze Age. Don't know how this relates to the so called process of BMACization."

Alright, thanks. Do you think this will show in the BMAC samples, if they are ever released? Will they have partial Steppe ancestry, or no? I am just curious. I would assume that some of the samples would be Iran_Chl+Steppe, and if we ever get elite samples, they should mostly be Steppe, with minor BMAC admixture. Wouldn't you agree?

Davidski said...

I don't know. This might depend on which BMAC sites are sampled.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Davidski

"I don't know. This might depend on which BMAC sites are sampled."

Alright thanks bro, all of this has gotten me excited about the next few years. I certainly look forward to BMAC and Vedic Aryan/Indo-Aryan samples/studies.

I love your work, thanks again.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Davidski Side note, I remember you saying something about BMAC samples being already sequenced in a previous post of yours. Do you think they will be parceled in with the IVC and Vedic Aryan paper? Thanks.

Davidski said...

I think so, and Maykop as well.

Nirjhar007 said...

This study is known for a while now and there is nothing surprising tbh , the possible infiltration of the Proto-Scythians of North to the BMAC area is also natural, if we see the geography and the enviornmental situation . If sites like Yaz represent Avestan horizon , as I have said earlier , they ( Andronovans) were probably mentioned as Tuiryas as opposed to the Airyas .

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Davidski

"I think so, and Maykop as well."

Woohoo! Those should be great to look at, and you can definitely write a great many blog posts on this paper. It may be the most critical paper on human genetics for the next few decades.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Nirjhar007

"This study is known for a while now and there is nothing surprising tbh , the possible infiltration of the Proto-Scythians of North to the BMAC area is also natural, if we see the geography and the enviornmental situation . If sites like Yaz represent Avestan horizon , as I have said earlier , they ( Andronovans) were probably mentioned as Tuiryas as opposed to the Airyas ."

Sorry, if I said something offensive to you beforehand. From now on, I think all of us should respect each others' views until the papers are released, though, we shouldn't make too much speculations. This is a good point you have made (except for the bit on the Andronovans), but anyway, I do not think BMAC directly impacted the Indo-Aryans, as they probably did not stay long enough to pick up some cultural or genetic influences. Probably, most of the foreign admixture in the Vedic Aryans was from the Ferghana Valley, as David has previously stated. It's well worth waiting and seeing what the upcoming data shows. You don't have to agree, just sharing my thoughts on the matter.

Nirjhar007 said...

Vara,

It is interesting that Avesta also mentions Sairimas( Proto-Sarmatian related?) , also fights against for example ''Danu'' tribe(As per Gnoli a clan of Tuiryas) , one can find it quite interesting to link it with river names like Don or Danube .The Scythians and Sarmatians etc are the historical Iranian speakers of the steppe .

Karl_K said...

Although it seems like science because of all the data and measurements... Not so sure about sweeping conclusions. The statistics are very poor overall with these methods vs. DNA technology.

Ric Hern said...

@ Shahanshah of Persia

Here is something interesting from this study:

"2nd millennium BC (when the town of Gonur was completely desolated as a result of the cessation of water flows."

This tells me that the Pastoralists could have arrived from somewhere else like the Tazabagyab Culture who arrived +-1500 BC at Khwarezm....

They probably mixed with the remnants of the BMAC population in that area/so.

Ric Hern said...

@ Davidski

Is it possible that some of the BMAC population migrated towards the Eastern Mountainous areas and displaced Proto-Indo-Aryans who then migrated South into India ? And then Proto-Indo-Iranians filled in the gap left my BMAC migrants in the former BMAC territory ?

Alberto said...

@Shahansha of Persia

"Sorry, if I said something offensive to you beforehand. From now on, I think all of us should respect each others' views until the papers are released, though, we shouldn't make too much speculations."

Yes, please. Try to not forget (again) this self imposed rule.

As a fervorous proponent of the steppe hypothesis, it would be also good to get some background about it. Do you know David Anthony? Try to get familiar with his works, so you can defend your preferred theories with something to back them up. For example, you said:

"I do not think BMAC directly impacted the Indo-Aryans, as they probably did not stay long enough to pick up some cultural or genetic influences"

Read a bit about it from David Anthony:

https://erenow.com/ancient/the-horse-the-wheel-and-language/16.html

A short excerpt as an example:

"The language of the Rig Veda contained many traces of its syncretic origins. The deity name Indra and the drug-deity name Soma, the two central elements of the religion of the Rig Veda, were non-Indo-Iranian words borrowed in the contact zone [read BMAC]. [...] The Old Indic of the Rig Veda contained at least 383 non—Indo-European words borrowed from a source belonging to a different language family. Alexander Lubotsky has shown that common Indo-Iranian, the parent of both Old Indic and Iranian, probably had already borrowed words from the same non—Indo-European language that later enriched Old Indic. [...] Among the fifty-five terms borrowed into common Indo-Iranian were the words for bread (*nagna-), ploughshare (sphāra), canal (*iavīā), brick (*išt(i)a-, camel (*Huštra-), ass (*khara-) sacrificing priest (*ućig-), soma (*anću-), and Indra (*indra-). The BMAC fortresses and cities are an excellent source for the vocabulary related to irrigation agriculture, bricks, camels, and donkeys; and the phonology of the religious terms is the same, so probably came from the same source. The religious loans suggest a close cultural relationship between some people who spoke common Indo-Iranian and the occupants of the BMAC fortresses."

You don't have to agree with D. Anthony, of course (many people here won't agree). But you should know those basic concepts of the steppe hypothesis (regarding the Indo-Iranian migration) to refute them when you disagree by providing some technical data (either from your own knowledge of linguistics or by citing respected sources) instead of just throwing ideas without any base. This will make your posts much more relevant and interesting for everyone here and keep the comments section much more readable.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Ric Hern

"Here is something interesting from this study:

"2nd millennium BC (when the town of Gonur was completely desolated as a result of the cessation of water flows."

This tells me that the Pastoralists could have arrived from somewhere else like the Tazabagyab Culture who arrived +-1500 BC at Khwarezm....

They probably mixed with the remnants of the BMAC population in that area/so."

Excellent points, and I completely agree with you. Also, keep in mind that Yaz also likely had Iran_Chl influence, so the proto-Indo-Iranians likely were mixed by the time they reached Iran. The question is how much? I would personally say, 20 to 30% Iran Chalcolithic admixture in the early Iranics, and 10 to 20% for the elites. The remainder was undoubtedly entirely Steppe MLBA. They also probably mixed further once they reached Iran, and I suspect the early Median and Achaemenid elites having 50 to 75% steppe admixture with the remaining being Chalcolithic Iranian.

Also, in reply to your comment directed at David, I'm pretty sure that's possibly and perhaps it could explain why the Indo-Aryans are Iran Neolithic and Steppe derived but lack Chalcolithic Iranian admixture. I'm fairly certain that they picked up minor Iran Neolithic admixture prior to hitting India. Now the only question is how much? I would say 10 to 15% for the elites, and 20 to 30% for the peasants/lower classes. It's well worth waiting and seeing what the data has to offer.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Alberto

"Yes, please. Try to not forget (again) this self imposed rule."

Alright, thanks. I will not forget it. Now that moderation is on indefinitely, there'll be no need for me to be upset over anything.

"As a fervorous proponent of the steppe hypothesis, it would be also good to get some background about it. Do you know David Anthony? Try to get familiar with his works, so you can defend your preferred theories with something to back them up. For example, you said:


"I do not think BMAC directly impacted the Indo-Aryans, as they probably did not stay long enough to pick up some cultural or genetic influences"

Read a bit about it from David Anthony:

https://erenow.com/ancient/the-horse-the-wheel-and-language/16.html

A short excerpt as an example:

"The language of the Rig Veda contained many traces of its syncretic origins. The deity name Indra and the drug-deity name Soma, the two central elements of the religion of the Rig Veda, were non-Indo-Iranian words borrowed in the contact zone [read BMAC]. [...] The Old Indic of the Rig Veda contained at least 383 non—Indo-European words borrowed from a source belonging to a different language family. Alexander Lubotsky has shown that common Indo-Iranian, the parent of both Old Indic and Iranian, probably had already borrowed words from the same non—Indo-European language that later enriched Old Indic. [...] Among the fifty-five terms borrowed into common Indo-Iranian were the words for bread (*nagna-), ploughshare (sphāra), canal (*iavīā), brick (*išt(i)a-, camel (*Huštra-), ass (*khara-) sacrificing priest (*ućig-), soma (*anću-), and Indra (*indra-). The BMAC fortresses and cities are an excellent source for the vocabulary related to irrigation agriculture, bricks, camels, and donkeys; and the phonology of the religious terms is the same, so probably came from the same source. The religious loans suggest a close cultural relationship between some people who spoke common Indo-Iranian and the occupants of the BMAC fortresses."

Yes, of course I know David Anthony, and I have read this before. However, the problem with his hypotheses are that firstly, the Indo-Aryans were likely Steppe EMBA derived, not Steppe MLBA, and secondly, they were mostly likely mixed with Neolithic Iranians no Chalcolithic Iranians. Both of these influences were the reverse for the Iranics, and all of this leads me to believe that BMAC itself probably had little influence on the Indo-Aryans, or whatever influence there was, came from a population heavily Neolithic Iranian, probably living in a BMAC offshoot. I agree though, I don't think they were purely Steppe derived, but the Swat Valley samples shall confirm whatever the realities are. Also, most of his work his hypothetical since we do not have actual BMAC literary evidence.

"You don't have to agree with D. Anthony, of course (many people here won't agree). But you should know those basic concepts of the steppe hypothesis (regarding the Indo-Iranian migration) to refute them when you disagree by providing some technical data (either from your own knowledge of linguistics or by citing respected sources) instead of just throwing ideas without any base. This will make your posts much more relevant and interesting for everyone here and keep the comments section much more readable."

True, but I never claimed that the Vedic Aryans had some West Asian admixture, all I said was that they likely lacked BMAC admixture because we don't detect Iran_Chl admixture in modern Indo-Aryans.

mzp1 said...

This doesn't make any sense at all....

"long and narrow heads, high, narrow faces and noses, and round orbits"

These are typically Northern (upper caste) features, esp the high and narrow nose, that according to the Invasionists had been brought to India by the invaders.

You are now saying these were indigenous North Indian traits, but this contradicts your position that the indigenous northern Indians were dravidians, because these are exactly the traits that differentiate Dravudians from Aryans.

supernord said...

IA. Soma, Irn. haoma is not loanword. It is II word, from PIE sewh- "to push".

IA. Indra is very the controversial word. Borrowing for him is not proven. The Hittites have a similar hero-snakefighter of Innara, in tune with the Indra. Hero-snakefighter exists only at IE.

II. uštra "camel, also a buffalo" is derived from PIE. uks- "bull, ox" + suffix -tra.

Alberto said...

@Shahansha of Persia

"Yes, of course I know David Anthony, and I have read this before. However, the problem with his hypotheses are that firstly, the Indo-Aryans were likely Steppe EMBA derived, not Steppe MLBA, and secondly, they were mostly likely mixed with Neolithic Iranians no Chalcolithic Iranians."

See? this is what I mean by throwing ideas without backing them up with any data. Who ever proposed that Steppe_EMBA were Indo-Aryans? That would destroy the steppe hypothesis completely. And how and when did those Yamnaya R1b-Z2103 arrive to South Asia? Route? Dates? Archaeological data supporting it? Linguistic data supporting it? And how did they mix with Iran Neolithics on the way? Time machine? And where's all the R1b-Z2103 in South Asia?

Elaborate a credible narrative, with data, quoting sources, with details. I'm interested in your alternative view if you can make it work in a convincing way.

Shahanshah of Persia said...

@Alberto

No one said that Indo-Aryans were Yamnaya. They were Yamnaya-like/Steppe EMBA, like the Poltavka Steppe MLBA samples. They were not like Sintashta, Andronovo, or Afansievo. See here:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2017/05/through-time-and-space.html

Well, they certainly did not mix with Chalcolithic Iranians, that's for certain, as Indo-Aryans lack Chalcolithic Iranian admixture. They probably mixed with Neolithic Iranians in the Ferghana Valley. There were probably still Neolithic Iranians in Central Asia during that time, who avoided admixture with neighbouring populations.

Nirjhar007 said...

IA. Soma, Irn. haoma is not loanword. It is II word, from PIE sewh- "to push".

IA. Indra is very the controversial word. Borrowing for him is not proven. The Hittites have a similar hero-snakefighter of Innara, in tune with the Indra. Hero-snakefighter exists only at IE.

II. uštra "camel, also a buffalo" is derived from PIE. uks- "bull, ox" + suffix -tra.


I agree though tentatively on the third :) .

Vara said...

@Nirjhar

I was wrote a long ass paragraph but my phone didn't post it.

This Iran-Turan part is the most complicated part of the Avesta and in my opinion more complicated than the Avestan homeland. Though, I am gonna say this: never trust the Younger Avesta, especially not the Kayanian part, for it will always mislead people who do not know the minute details of Iranian history and the evolution/devolution of Zoroastrianism.

As for the mentions of the Sairimas, I am going on off memory here, I think they were only mentioned in the Frawardin Yasht. It isn't clear when this Yasht was composed. However, my guess is either composed or heavily edited during the Achaemenid era. I base this on the fact that Aredvi Sura Anahita plays a major part in the text. The older form of the name is found in the old Zamyad Yasht, Harahvaiti which is the same as the Indo-Aryan Sarasvaiti. The Greeks mentioned that the Persians worshipped Ishtar and called her Mithra. However, some made the connection to Anahita, and I think it is correct based on the similarity of the depiction of Anahita and Ishtar even centuries later. So if you'd like to interpret the Danus as the Danube then king Darius battled the Scythians there.

If you'd like I can write more on Turan when I get back to my computer in two days.

Nirjhar007 said...

Vara ,

About the issue of Anahita , you have read this recent research?.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00210862.2017.1348223

As to Harahvaiti and Sarasvatī, IMO it is not necessarily a sound change indicating a transformation from Sanskrit to Avestan, but simply from common Indo-Iranian , It is also difficult to maintain that Sarasvatī was a river but not Harahvaiti(some say so),also considering that in Greek sources the river of Arachosia (Avestan Harahvaiti region) was called Arachotos.

Today it is generally identified with the Arghandab, the river of Kandahar, the ancient Alexandria Arachosia.

As is written in the Greek work Parthian Stations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_Arachosia):



Beyond is Arachosia. And the Parthians call this White India; there are the city of Biyt and the city of Pharsana and the city of Chorochoad and the city of Demetrias; then Alexandropolis, the metropolis of Arachosia; it is Greek, and by it flows the river Arachotus. As far as this place the land is under the rule of the Parthians.


The fact that Arachosia was called White India because of its culture at that time and that the ancient site of Mundigak in the same region had strong links with the Indus valley, we can wonder if the similar name of the river is not connected to a common culture and people. It is remarkable that other words with harah=saras apparently are not attested in Avestan or other Iranic languages, except maybe the river Hārūt in Western Afghanistan.

About Andronovans , it is quite suggestive that they represent the Proto-Scythian-Sarmatian related stock instead of Arya , for example see here :

The Sarmatians were part of the Indo-Iranian steppe peoples, among whom were also Scythians and Saka.[6] These are also grouped together as "East Iranians".[7] Archaeology has established the connection 'between the Iranian-speaking Scythians, Sarmatians and Saka and the earlier Timber-grave and Andronovo cultures'.[8] Based on building construction, these three peoples were the likely descendants of those earlier archaeological cultures.[9] The Sarmatians and Saka used the same stone construction methods as the earlier Andronovo culture.[10] The Timber-grave and Andronovo house building traditions were further developed by these three peoples.[11] Andronovo pottery was continued by the Saka and Sarmatians.[12] Archaeologists describe the Andronovo culture people as exhibiting pronounced Caucasoid features.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians#Archaeology

Tbh the culture of Rigvedic and Avestan Arya people, have no actual relations to those cultures as the Scythians for obvious reasons have . But Steppe theory proposes forced interpretations denying the obvious . The origin of Arya people is not from steppes.


Please do mail , I am very interested in your suggestions.



Ric Hern said...

So Steppe people adopted some Bell Beaker cultural aspects. Why is it impossible to think that the same type of thing happened in India ?

Nirjhar007 said...

Nothing is impossible Ric ;) ...

Gary Anderson said...

Davidson, this is off subject. But I don't know how to contact you otherwise. I read your initial article about the JTest. I tested 7.24 on two kits and 7.55 on one kit at Gedmatch. One kit is t047843. I tested at 23andme which showed I had slight Ashkenazi, .3 percent, but painted on chromosomes 22 and 6. My natural father was Ramirez by name. So, I sought to find matches on those chromosomes. Turned out that I have about 90 Ashkenazi triangulated relatives on 6 and about 35 on 22. All verified triangulated. On 6 we triangulate with Romanian names and on 22 Spanish names in addition to the AJ names. So I just want to inform you that 23andme was accurate in my case. If you have anything to share you can mail me at my Gedmatch email if you want to view my kit. All the best. GA

Vara said...

@Nirjhar

No, this is my first time seeing this paper. Anahita is usually linked to Ishtar, though. Either way, I think she's a Mesopotamian goddess based on the Harahvaiti.

Harahvaiti and Sarasvaiti are definetly from common Indo-Iranian. Not only do they have a common root but they are almost the same river. Both flow from a mountain and into a sea/lake. The early Rigvedic and the older parts of the Younger Avesta share the same rivers. You have the Haroyu/Saroyu rivers west of the Harahvaiti. I think the split between Indo-Aryans and Iranians occured in Afghanistan based on the similarity between the rivers and what Alberto quoted. The Avestan homeland being west of the Harahvaiti and the Vedic east of it. Based on scripture one could say Avestan homeland is Eastern Iran and Farsiwan Afghanistan and Vedic homeland is Pashtun Afghanistan and western Pakistan. Btw, Eastern Afghanistan was called Hindustan all the way up to Islamic era and even in the Shahnameh the Hindu Kush(Alborz) was in India.

Well, Yaz cannot explain the Medes appearing in western Iran. The last large scale migration from Eastern Iran to western Iran was during 1700-1500 BCE from around Hissar. The Ahura Mazda worshipping Medes had no sky burials and little to do with Yaz in general. It seems that Sky Burials made it to Western Iran with the Achaemenid empire. It's unknown what Yaz spoke, Proto-Scythian and Proto-East Iranians are good suggestions in my opinion. Though, when I see suggestions like the Kayanians in Yaz II I just shake my head.

Nirjhar007 said...

I see . Thanks for the suggestions! :) .

Fanty said...

"mzp1 said...

This doesn't make any sense at all...."

The same effect exists in Europe. Everyone in Europe was dolchiocephalic in neolithic Europe. The bronce age turned lots of Europeans brachycephalic.

Dinarid and Borreby are phenotypes that, in Europe, first showed up by Steppe/Farmer admixed people.

The original borreby skull is believed to be the skull of a "recently admixed" guy. Admixed between a local neolithic farmers with a cro magnon style head (wide face, long skull) and a bronce age migrant with dinarid features (slim face, short skull.

Also, as far as I recall, that slim face, long skull phenotype is supposed to have arrived to the steppe, from migration from the south. So possibly the CHG females had these features. EHG are, like all Euro HGs more robust types.

Ric Hern said...

I think to get a better understanding of what is being said a person have to read the Academia.edu paper.

Something interesting to note from this is:

"On the whole, they tended to have not very high orbits, and skulls became more massive."

(Skulls became more Massive.)

Pr V said...

are the SC Asian farmers with long heads and narrow noses iran neolithic people in this study?