tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1612849751676721146..comments2024-03-19T04:06:44.033-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Indian genetic history in three simple graphsDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger225125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46450905037044368352016-06-03T19:54:54.098-07:002016-06-03T19:54:54.098-07:00@postneo
There is plenty of evidence of gene flow...@postneo<br /><br />There is plenty of evidence of gene flow from Eastern Europe to Central Asia during the Bronze Age, and not just paternal gene flow. All sorts of gene flow, that brought steppe admixture, Z93 and the lactase persistence allele to South Asia.<br /><br />And nobody ever said Srubnaya was Vedic. Srubnaya is supposed to be proto-Iranian. It's Potapovka and Sintashta that show Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44679766775411511832016-06-03T19:42:57.459-07:002016-06-03T19:42:57.459-07:00looks like this is still on going.
Micky dodd &qu...looks like this is still on going.<br /><br />Micky dodd "why is it so hard etc..."<br /><br />its not actually hard at all, there are a huge chunk who don't care including many people in my family who like the idea of being "foreign". Its just the in 1.2 billion people a small minority will be nay sayers and perhaps even such a puny lot have disproportionate effect. I forpostneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82248841061234651672016-06-03T19:02:59.089-07:002016-06-03T19:02:59.089-07:00@Jaydeepsinh Rathod
As I have pointed out earlier...@Jaydeepsinh Rathod<br /><br /><i>As I have pointed out earlier, Metspalu et al 2011 have already argued that the Caucasus & the Gedrosian components had already separated by 12500 BP. So the Gedrosian/CHG in South Asia is older than 12500 BP and is not a result of any movement from the Caucasus during the Holocene.</i><br /><br />The Matspalu paper is outdated and irrelevant.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64270270181964481892016-06-03T18:37:31.206-07:002016-06-03T18:37:31.206-07:00That's interesting.
This probably brings us b...That's interesting.<br /><br />This probably brings us back to your point about the demographic history of the test population in question.Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38558999613877356872016-06-03T17:29:04.722-07:002016-06-03T17:29:04.722-07:00Kotias and Satsurblia don't receive any admixt...Kotias and Satsurblia don't receive any admixture in this graph even with up to five migration edges.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63953712971639172122016-06-03T17:26:21.236-07:002016-06-03T17:26:21.236-07:00David,
Amazing, thanks!
For whatever it's wo...David,<br /><br />Amazing, thanks!<br /><br />For whatever it's worth, perhaps 30% is more reasonable, as Villabruna is much more distant from East Asians compared to Loschbour, and the 40% estimate was produced for EEF when we only had Loschbour/La-Brana.<br /><br />Also, I guess this shows that UHG is genetically continuous with the Villabruna cluster (which Matt's experimentation also Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31595926242316204932016-06-03T16:51:17.589-07:002016-06-03T16:51:17.589-07:00There's not enough European admixture in Jatts...There's not enough European admixture in Jatts (~20-23%) or South Asian admixture in Europeans (next to no ASI/South Indian, but a little Gedrosian) for an out of India theory for WHG/EHG. Those components are definitely from Northeastern Europe and the Volga-Ural area.<br /><br />The IBS, admixture, etc all points to the WHG/EHG-like admixture in Jatts being related to that found in modern Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11148963981733232245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41310684549784340172016-06-03T14:03:25.590-07:002016-06-03T14:03:25.590-07:00David,
"Samara Eneolithic is certainly a mix...David,<br /><br />"Samara Eneolithic is certainly a mixture of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers (CHG).<br /><br />So if you're looking for OIT based on these results, you have to push back the genesis of Indo-European in South Asia to the late Paleolithic at least. And also hope that EHG and/or CHG are from South Asia."<br /><br />EHG is Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02988573049183397415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10735524795311156442016-06-03T13:50:48.229-07:002016-06-03T13:50:48.229-07:00Gill,
Have you read this recent paper on origins ...Gill,<br /><br />Have you read this recent paper on origins of Harappan Civilization ?<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/articles/srep26555<br /><br />It is now becoming increasingly clear that the pre-Harappan & Early Harappan levels in the state of Haryana are very old. Haryana also has now the largest Harappan site discovered so far in Rakhigarhi. There is a tentative possibility that the Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02988573049183397415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56994430107854086042016-06-03T12:27:45.389-07:002016-06-03T12:27:45.389-07:00In any case, find ancient R1a-L657 and you find th...In any case, find ancient R1a-L657 and you find the source.Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11148963981733232245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-92091139822232272692016-06-03T12:26:39.285-07:002016-06-03T12:26:39.285-07:00^ My point being, whatever Steppe population contr...^ My point being, whatever Steppe population contributed that extra European WHG-like stuff to Haryana Jatts, it came via a high-ANE population like CHG or something with even more ANE. So if David's theory about a Corded Ware-like population going from North-Central Europe to the Steppe is correct (to explain the European levels of WHG in Bronze Age Central Asia), there was an additional Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11148963981733232245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91245577544494960772016-06-03T12:20:46.826-07:002016-06-03T12:20:46.826-07:00Some of the Haryana Jatts have ASI/South Indian nu...Some of the Haryana Jatts have ASI/South Indian numbers that are just low enough to indicate foreign ancestry. I'm going to refer to the HarappaWorld calculator because most have used it.<br /><br />The average among Punjabi Jatts has been a near consistent ~30% from across the entire area. It starts to get lower than 27% in Pakistanis who have Baloch/Sindhi/Pathan/Pashtun ancestry, and Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11148963981733232245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29920701319563214332016-06-03T08:25:22.367-07:002016-06-03T08:25:22.367-07:00Yeah, that topology does pick up a 30% Basal Euras...Yeah, that topology does pick up a 30% Basal Eurasian edge into Anatolia Neolithic. But I reckon inflated archaic admix in Villabruna is making it lower than it should be.<br /><br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQbkdtUmNLbkE2TTA/view?usp=sharing<br /><br />I also tried it with CHG, but it didn't work.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9809318010020917332016-06-02T23:31:46.671-07:002016-06-02T23:31:46.671-07:00That's a sensible theory. On this Asian (West,...That's a sensible theory. On this Asian (West, South, East) PCA without Denisovans Papuans cluster exactly like Andamanese on first two dimensions. <br /><br />http://oi65.tinypic.com/34zfw9s.jpg<br /><br />This is from Basu et al. which made the questionable choice of labeling modern populations after components, ANI, ASI, AAA and ATB are just modern Indian populations (North, South, Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18821434194817361572016-06-02T23:17:09.011-07:002016-06-02T23:17:09.011-07:00Shaikorth,
You know, it would be interesting to s...Shaikorth,<br /><br />You know, it would be interesting to see if Papuan/Australian populations also possess this ANE affinity, minus the Denisovan ancestry.<br /><br />If my memory serves me right, I think there was a paper that construed Papuan/Australian populations as a mix of ENA (Onge-like) and an unidentified ghost population which was very rich in Denisovan ancestry.<br /><br />But Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48264910166891112182016-06-02T22:46:57.026-07:002016-06-02T22:46:57.026-07:00Sein, that MA-1 edge isn't South Asian per say...Sein, that MA-1 edge isn't South Asian per say from the root of the Munda-Dai-Han branch which implies that all of them have some extra affinity to MA-1 and have complex ancestry. It'd be interesting to see if the non-denisovan part of Papuans has behaves similarly or is it actually "pure ENA".Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7276119526045669162016-06-02T21:11:11.870-07:002016-06-02T21:11:11.870-07:00David,
Thanks!
Fascinating stuff.
I completely...David,<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Fascinating stuff. <br /><br />I completely agree with you.<br /><br />For whatever it's worth, as a simple tree, the relationships are just as we expected (and in line with that recent Q Fu et al. paper), so it seems this basic topology is a success with TreeMix (we would see the same sort of results with qpGraph).<br /><br />And the Karitiana/North Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44793203629887611812016-06-02T20:41:05.593-07:002016-06-02T20:41:05.593-07:00Balaji,
Samara Eneolithic is certainly a mixture ...Balaji,<br /><br />Samara Eneolithic is certainly a mixture of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHG) and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers (CHG).<br /><br />So if you're looking for OIT based on these results, you have to push back the genesis of Indo-European in South Asia to the late Paleolithic at least. And also hope that EHG and/or CHG are from South Asia.<br /><br />Whatever it takes, I'mDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32347093876500867822016-06-02T19:38:08.515-07:002016-06-02T19:38:08.515-07:00Davidski,
Thank you so much. I do find these resu...Davidski,<br /><br />Thank you so much. I do find these results pleasing and your “wild stab in the dark” did reach its mark. But let me restrain myself and say that these TreeMix graphs do not yet resolve the question of the Indo-European Urheimat one way or the other. We have to wait for a little while longer for more evidence.Balajihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09561110603904765636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66864272443877857072016-06-02T16:01:26.503-07:002016-06-02T16:01:26.503-07:00In theory, it probably won't, since none of th...In theory, it probably won't, since none of these scaffold populations have "Basal Eurasian" admixture, while MA1's neighbor on that tree does. <br /><br />Also, in that tree MA1 gets 40% admixture from a South Asian population (intermediate between caste Indians and Munda), not from an East Asian population.<br /><br />But it would be interesting to see both a tree with Dai/HanSeinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81833061056325106902016-06-02T15:32:29.868-07:002016-06-02T15:32:29.868-07:00Including MA-1 and Dai/Han might already mess with...Including MA-1 and Dai/Han might already mess with the topology as we saw here:<br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQRTI5QU1NY05kV2M/view?usp=sharing<br /> <br />Maybe they can be replaced with papuan and denisovan (to bring papuan ENA into an optimal place in the tree).Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65141562444811250182016-06-02T15:08:52.856-07:002016-06-02T15:08:52.856-07:00David,
Thanks!
I was wondering, have you tried t...David,<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />I was wondering, have you tried to construe modern populations using "basal/unadmixed" ancient samples, with TreeMix?<br /><br />If you think it's worthwhile, I was hoping you could eventually try a "basic"/scaffold tree with these unadmixed populations:<br /><br />Mbuti, Biaka, Yoruba<br /><br />Ust-Ishim<br /><br />Dai, Han<br /><br /Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1939251843807061282016-06-02T14:13:04.565-07:002016-06-02T14:13:04.565-07:00Can't do much with the Kalash in these trees.
...Can't do much with the Kalash in these trees.<br /><br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQTTI0VDFKMjRUWTA/view?usp=sharingDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1868088224541859472016-06-02T10:56:01.225-07:002016-06-02T10:56:01.225-07:00David,
If possible (when you find the time, and i...David,<br /><br />If possible (when you find the time, and inclination), could you try that Samara_Eneolithic typology, but with the Kalash? Thanks in advance.Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43486942742783843672016-06-02T09:33:16.775-07:002016-06-02T09:33:16.775-07:00Lots to look forward to in these next months.Lots to look forward to in these next months.Atriðrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13083384836707338698noreply@blogger.com