tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1637477832864406006..comments2024-03-28T06:30:18.217-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The tracer dyeDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger126125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33585372872053523562019-03-05T22:21:32.641-08:002019-03-05T22:21:32.641-08:00I updated my West Eurasia index. The results have ...I updated my West Eurasia index. The results have changed a lot.<br /><br />https://www.thesawingtools.com/<br /><br />I'm very confident in the accuracy of the results. A pure strain of Anatolian was isolated looking at Balkan_N & Iberia_N. Barcin_N fits as 89% Anatolian. Because of this Anatolian numbers in Middle East go way down. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48421852905487619782019-02-09T19:18:50.618-08:002019-02-09T19:18:50.618-08:00@ Dragos
Was that not early Corded Ware territor...@ Dragos <br /><br />Was that not early Corded Ware territory ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69142172023254731772019-02-09T17:56:53.727-08:002019-02-09T17:56:53.727-08:00@ Ric
What about south Poland as an important zon...@ Ric <br />What about south Poland as an important zone ?Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72381073934413694922019-02-09T14:46:51.699-08:002019-02-09T14:46:51.699-08:00Btw Davidski
Did you know we have a SGC sample al...Btw Davidski <br />Did you know we have a SGC sample already ??<br />That Polish CWC from Kujavia is, by definition, SGC.<br />It was I2a2..)Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65264981811614112422019-02-09T06:34:22.837-08:002019-02-09T06:34:22.837-08:00@ Dragos
Okay, so which Culture do you have in mi...@ Dragos<br /><br />Okay, so which Culture do you have in mind ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86847883290152322502019-02-08T03:17:03.783-08:002019-02-08T03:17:03.783-08:00Davidski
Iberian (''north''-) BB ...Davidski<br /><br />Iberian (''north''-) BB probably came via southern France, not the Atlantic coast. For the latter, you'd expect L21 in Iberian Beaker, like in the Netherlands and Britain, and I'd doubt that's the case. <br /><br />''There's no way in hell that they came from the Carpathian Basin. They moved into the Carpathian Basin.<br /><br />If you Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2621074852813901322019-02-07T23:52:32.129-08:002019-02-07T23:52:32.129-08:00@Dragos
Maybe you're conflating the Bell Beak...@Dragos<br /><br />Maybe you're conflating the Bell Beaker cultural package, which isn't defined precisely anyway, with a specific kind of Bell Beaker people?<br /><br />This specific kind of Bell Beaker people, rich in P312 and with a very particular physique, were the descendants of Single Grave people and they migrated out of the Lower Rhine region.<br /><br />There's no way in Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9757616078759611312019-02-07T23:30:16.447-08:002019-02-07T23:30:16.447-08:00Let’s look at the BB set then
- tanged copper dag...Let’s look at the BB set then <br />- tanged copper daggers - Yamnaya <br />- wrist guards - Densest concentration Moravia <br />- earliest N-S inhumations : Zone of S Poland, Moravia ; Hungary <br />- the Lockenringe - Yamnaya <br /><br />Cf Northern Europe pre-2400BC ; battle axes; no wrist guards; No copper <br /><br />CWC was evicted by BB; BB moved out of CE because it was pushed out by Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37421306217284968212019-02-07T22:25:16.523-08:002019-02-07T22:25:16.523-08:00@All
Dragos: BB certainly seem to have been “cult...@All<br /><br /><i>Dragos: BB certainly seem to have been “culturally evicted” from Hungary and Central Europe, which explains why they ended up with such numbers in Atlantic Europe.</i><br /><br />LOL<br /><br />Obviously, steppe admixed Bell Beakers in Atlantic Europe derive from Northern Europe, not from the Carpathian Basin.<br /><br />This is clear from ancient DNA and archeology.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27315290094721024812019-02-07T12:27:31.148-08:002019-02-07T12:27:31.148-08:00@ Leron
BB certainly seem to have been “culturall...@ Leron<br /><br />BB certainly seem to have been “culturally evicted” from Hungary and Central Europe, which explains why they ended up with such numbers in Atlantic Europe . But in Hungary they appear to have been demographically assimilated (in Nagyrév 2400 BC & Unetice, resp) <br />The steppe ancestry in Italy might have arrived from Central Europe during LBA ?Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4798589320505120762019-02-07T08:22:43.615-08:002019-02-07T08:22:43.615-08:00@Samuel @Open Genomes
Ahh, Open Genomes beat me t...@Samuel @Open Genomes<br /><br />Ahh, Open Genomes beat me to the reply. I was going to say something very similar. Yes, the interaction that existed between Anatolia <--> Levant prior to the Neolithic was probably accentuated by agriculture. <br /><br />We are sorely missing genomes from the area in between... the area that Open Genomes alluded to. As I complained before, it's really PFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780789381709373839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63571049029569699562019-02-07T06:00:04.026-08:002019-02-07T06:00:04.026-08:00How can we make sense of the BB data and the stuff...How can we make sense of the BB data and the stuff RK reported? It seems like the south/eastern-like people in Italy conquered the BB folk, pushed them north and didn’t integrate with them, hence the lack of steppe in all the Italy samples RK summarized.Leronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02439493552739670541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78037224976126027132019-02-07T00:58:41.655-08:002019-02-07T00:58:41.655-08:00@Open Genomes That additional ANE point suggests t...@Open Genomes That additional ANE point suggests that there was a separate CHG-like population nearby with additional ANE, presumably due to a migration of some form of R1b (or theoretically even as far back as R1, certainly looking at basal subclades suggests this but such methodologies have flaws) into Northern West Asia a long time ago. That would explain the EHG-like auDNA and mtDNA in some Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83853973873277648142019-02-07T00:56:37.494-08:002019-02-07T00:56:37.494-08:00Regarding the date of entry of CHG into the steppe...Regarding the date of entry of CHG into the steppes, it is obvious that the autosomal components did not enter as the influenza virus,but that they have to be linked to uniparental markers. Haplogroup Y linked to CHG is J, true ?. I think that has never been seen in the steppes, ergo, this autosomal component could only enter through maternal lineages. When ?, we only have to check the Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57547858225111670912019-02-07T00:39:44.350-08:002019-02-07T00:39:44.350-08:00Here's a restricted Global25 nMonte for sample...Here's a restricted Global25 nMonte for sample I1635, Kura-Araxes from Armenia, 2619-2465 calBCE, likely also R-V1636:<br /><br /><a href="http://open-genomes.org/analysis/PCA/nMonte/getNmonte.html?id=I1635-penalty-0-limit-0.2-pre-Iron_Age" rel="nofollow"><b>Bronze Age and earlier ancestry composition of sample: I1635 Population: Armenia_EBA Bronze Age Caucasus</b></a><br /><br />It looks Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10803310518699090952019-02-07T00:30:47.320-08:002019-02-07T00:30:47.320-08:00Mamma mia, the Italians are truly interesting peop...Mamma mia, the Italians are truly interesting people (not so bored genetically speaking as Spain) Rome at the time of the Empire came to have more than one million inhabitants with emigrants from all parts of the Empire, autosomal components from all over the known world had to enter Italy at that time.<br /><br />Regarding the BB and the steppe ancestry, you have to remember that the Western Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40456991964956130562019-02-07T00:27:39.784-08:002019-02-07T00:27:39.784-08:00@ Davidski
You know that I know that BB was fairly...@ Davidski<br />You know that I know that BB was fairly widespread in Italy ; and we know that it dates , 25-2000 BC there <br /><br />So I’m simply making preliminary remarks based on this interesting snippet <br /><br />1) c.f Atlantic Europe - where the BB phenomenon is assoc with massive introgression of steppe ancestry - this seems absent in Italy (apart from some samples individuals in the Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3662101964010157492019-02-06T23:35:25.596-08:002019-02-06T23:35:25.596-08:00@Arch Hades
The point I was trying to make is the...@Arch Hades<br /><br /><i>The point I was trying to make is the steppe after 5,000 BC looks very very different than the EHGs or EHG-WHG samples that preceded it.</i><br /><br />Which steppe? The North Pontic Steppe or the Caspian Steppe? How about the Don Steppe or the North Caucasus steppe?<br /><br />Can you give us a detailed breakdown based on current sampling, and provide some convincing Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87818659115011464672019-02-06T23:10:26.031-08:002019-02-06T23:10:26.031-08:00If we are saying that Meoslithic EHGs have some sm...If we are saying that Meoslithic EHGs have some small traces of CHG..well yes it seems that way based on various ADMIXTURE analysis that I've seen. But that's not even a sign of any significant admixture event, more like a simple isolation by distance genetic cline.<br /><br />The point I was trying to make is the steppe after 5,000 BC looks very very different than the EHGs or EHG-WHG Arch Hadeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00679577049261430513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58426888017376420442019-02-06T23:00:55.183-08:002019-02-06T23:00:55.183-08:00@Dragos
Yes it entered, but didn’t seem to propag...@Dragos<br /><br /><i>Yes it entered, but didn’t seem to propagate<br />Learn what an “epiphenomenon” is before you accuse of trolling</i><br /><br />Beakers occupied much of Northern and Central Italy and even made it all the way to Sicily, along with their steppe ancestry, and they stayed there for a while. How is that not propagating?<br /><br />The densities of Beaker finds across many parts Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58827160822800780982019-02-06T22:59:16.337-08:002019-02-06T22:59:16.337-08:00Concerning the Italian genomes.
It's all a Mo...Concerning the Italian genomes.<br /><br />It's all a Moot point ;)John Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454926902513067703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82465169899658120452019-02-06T22:54:11.268-08:002019-02-06T22:54:11.268-08:00Yes it entered, but didn’t seem to propagate
Lear...Yes it entered, but didn’t seem to propagate <br />Learn what an “epiphenomenon” is before you accuse of trolling Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2982921621441958592019-02-06T22:39:53.971-08:002019-02-06T22:39:53.971-08:00@Dragos
Quit trolling.
You know as well as anyon...@Dragos<br /><br />Quit trolling.<br /><br />You know as well as anyone here that Italian Bell Beakers have been sampled, and some already published, and they have significant levels of steppe ancestry.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49333157844257271962019-02-06T22:37:19.561-08:002019-02-06T22:37:19.561-08:00@Arch Hades
We are looking at the CHG component e...@Arch Hades<br /><br /><i>We are looking at the CHG component entering the steppe and diluting the native ancestry there some time after 5,000 BC.</i><br /><br />Nope. That sounds like total BS. Are you sure you're not in denial?<br /><br />As per latest estimates, EHG might well have double figure admixture levels of CHG. And it's extremely unlikely that those CHG-heavy Eneolithic steppeDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21576707943164945712019-02-06T22:37:03.140-08:002019-02-06T22:37:03.140-08:00@ Sam
“How will you rationalize Steppe admixture ...@ Sam<br /><br />“How will you rationalize Steppe admixture in remains associated with early Italic speakers?”<br /><br />Who would you classify early italic speakers, & with what archaeological culture do you link them. You speak as if you know when italic arrived for sure , and I’m not sure we do.<br /><br />According to the (English-speaking) blogo-sphere perspective, BB represented the Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.com