tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1958148015241410232..comments2024-03-28T10:03:24.453-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Big deal of 2019: ancient DNA confirms the link between Y-haplogroup N and Uralic expansionsDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger327125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56488887517822524202019-12-09T02:41:03.953-08:002019-12-09T02:41:03.953-08:00If we follow this Southeast Asian model, we have t...If we follow this Southeast Asian model, we have to conclude that K2a first ventured out of SE Asia via India, as a sibling branch of Siberian K2a represented by Ust Ishim is found in Telugus in Dravidian India, while K2b ventured out of SE Asia later via China as Tianyuan is K2b and Yana is P.Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20133586535223561442019-12-09T01:23:36.473-08:002019-12-09T01:23:36.473-08:00Early replacement of West Eurasian male Y chromoso...Early replacement of West Eurasian male Y chromosomes from the east<br /><br />"Three present-day Y lineages were carried by the initial migration: the rare haplogroup D, the moderately rare C, and the very common FT lineage which now dominates most non-African populations. We show that phylogenetic analyses of haplogroup C, D and FT sequences, including very rare deep-rooting lineages, Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17295200970474316683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13563623109016821672019-12-09T01:09:49.625-08:002019-12-09T01:09:49.625-08:00@Rob
"Anyhow; it’s cleat you have selective...@Rob <br /><br />"<i>Anyhow; it’s cleat you have selective recollection given that high just quoted Schrijver<br />https://www.academia.edu/38390118/Non-Indo-European_surviving_in_Ireland_in_the_first_millennium_AD</i>"<br /><br />From that paper:<br /><br />"Recently Venneman proposed to connect the name Partenkirchen with a plethora of names in <i>Bard-</i> and, ultimately, with epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61761183387006919102019-12-09T01:09:42.250-08:002019-12-09T01:09:42.250-08:00@All
New thread...
The BOO people: earliest Ural...@All<br /><br />New thread...<br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-boo-people-earliest-uralic-speakers.html" rel="nofollow">The BOO people: earliest Uralic speakers in the ancient DNA record?</a><br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79339348411794307702019-12-09T00:55:56.176-08:002019-12-09T00:55:56.176-08:00@ Slumbery
As I said, we do not have the right re...@ Slumbery<br /><br />As I said, we do not have the right references, and therefore, the models are not reliable.<br /><br />We need ca 2000 BC old N1a1a1a1a-L1026 sample from a context that can be linked with Uralic languages, and we should have a Comb Ceramic sample from Karelia. <br /><br />Considering all the linguistic data that we have on Proto-Uralic, it is natural to presume that Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36877509339359882272019-12-09T00:46:24.978-08:002019-12-09T00:46:24.978-08:00@ epoch
Toponyms aren’t very useful in predictin...@ epoch <br /><br />Toponyms aren’t very useful in predicting 3000 years prior to any attestation <br />But when actually attested and within a broader framework of analysis; I see nothing wrong <br />Anyhow; it’s cleat you have selective recollection given that high just quoted Schrijver <br />https://www.academia.edu/38390118/Non-Indo-European_surviving_in_Ireland_in_the_first_millennium_AD<br Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63653521407871350172019-12-09T00:31:21.928-08:002019-12-09T00:31:21.928-08:00@Kristiina
Second, if you use Shamanka_EBA, you m...@Kristiina<br /><br /><i>Second, if you use Shamanka_EBA, you must remember that Shamanka EBA on Baikal is only yDNA Q (6 x Q1b1-L53). Nearly all EBA from Baikal is Q (+ Glazkovo, Ust Ida, Kurma). There is only one Ust Ida N1a1a2-B187 (Khakass line). Therefore, in this model Sahamanka BA represents a Siberian populaton with yDNA Q while N comes from the rest of this ancestry.</i><br /><br />Just Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55766364465358013212019-12-09T00:22:29.940-08:002019-12-09T00:22:29.940-08:00@Kristiina & Davidski
I came to the conclusio...@Kristiina & Davidski<br /><br />I came to the conclusion that there is no (significant) steppe ancestry in BOO, because in G25 nMonte models in refuses Okunevo ancestry, despite the apparent connection on PCA and because directly testing ancestries from greater time-depth reinforced my suspicion that the reason of this refusal is the Afanasievo ancestry of Okunevo. <br />The presence of thatSlumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51997352692683387112019-12-09T00:00:04.667-08:002019-12-09T00:00:04.667-08:00I would like remind you of two things.
First, maj...I would like remind you of two things.<br /><br />First, majority of the mtDNA haplotypes of Levänluhta population belong to Finland-Saame-specific haplotypes that are not found in Corded Ware or in Scandinavia:<br />U5b1b1a probably Finnish Comb ceramic<br />U5b1b1a1 developed in Finland<br />U5b1b1a1a developed in Finland<br />U5b1b1a1b developed in Finland<br />U5b2a5 Blätterhöhle, no ancient Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19407120415738682412019-12-08T23:52:12.900-08:002019-12-08T23:52:12.900-08:00@Rob
So you can't back up your claim that Ibe...@Rob<br /><br />So you can't back up your claim that Iberian and/or Vasconic was spoken in Ireland with links. The only thing you could possibly do is link to Venneman. But then your remark that toponyms are useless is wrong.<br /><br />"<i>Toponyms are an almost useless line of evidence; long misused</i>"epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23140384456938173162019-12-08T23:36:31.927-08:002019-12-08T23:36:31.927-08:00on the Russian site molgen.org write that it was p...on the Russian site molgen.org write that it was possible to type a sample of the Ukrainian Mesolithic: <br />I5876 Dereivka I Ukraine_Mesolithic 7040-6703 calBCE R1a<br /><br />R-YP4141: YP4145+, YP4184+<br /><br />R-YP5018: YP5056+ (even 2 readings), YP5022-, YP5049-, YP5054-, Y22681-<br /><br /><br />R1a>YP4141>pre-YP5018Vladimirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17295200970474316683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70925137858591842782019-12-08T23:16:48.881-08:002019-12-08T23:16:48.881-08:00@ Davidski
Fine. Totally neutral stat. But now I ...@ Davidski<br /><br />Fine. Totally neutral stat. But now I can bite you from another side. How it is possible that this stat is neutral if almost half of the ancestry of Levanluhta_IA comes from the outlier?<br /><br />Possible answers are only two. It doesn't, because Levanluhta_IA is half-way (hence neutral stat) between Baltic_BA and the outlier or alternatively, if you're right and Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10997151426161075912019-12-08T22:23:38.687-08:002019-12-08T22:23:38.687-08:00@ D: thanks. Related:
"The Botai and more re...@ D: thanks. Related:<br /><br />"The Botai and more recent ancient genomes from Siberia show a decrease in contributions from so-called ‘ancient North Eurasian’ ancestry over time, which is detectable only in the northern-most ‘forest-tundra’ cline.<br /><br />...The northernmost grouping, which they term "forest-tundra", includes Russians, all Uralic language-speakers, which Queequeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04033948224040118380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71547116260977367122019-12-08T20:07:06.509-08:002019-12-08T20:07:06.509-08:00@Arza
Positive value in the first one says that F...@Arza<br /><br /><i>Positive value in the first one says that FIN_Levanluhta_IA shares more drift with Baltic_EST_BA than with FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o.</i><br /><br />Nope. You really need a Z score of at least 2 there to contemplate anything like that, otherwise the stat is neutral.<br /><br />Btw...<br /><br />Chimp Nganasan Baltic_EST_BA FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o -0.0033 -0.608<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78641125867588189462019-12-08T19:22:42.575-08:002019-12-08T19:22:42.575-08:00@ Davidski
Distance to: Nganassan
0.61121918 FIN_...@ Davidski<br /><br />Distance to: Nganassan<br />0.61121918 FIN_Levanluhta_IA_o<br />0.62334685 Baltic_EST_BA<br /><br />It looks like the "Balto-Slavic drift" is in opposition to East Asia. So when you feed the algorithm with something that is less Asian than it should be it will be compensated on the other side by shifting to the source closer to Asia.<br /><br />Can you run this to Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6050585189069801282019-12-08T18:08:45.081-08:002019-12-08T18:08:45.081-08:00@ Slumbery
In the dimensions of North Eurasian PC...@ Slumbery<br /><br /><i>In the dimensions of North Eurasian PCA 3 all BOO are pulled out from the modern Uralic cline into the range of Siberian Tatars and Bashkirs and towards Okunev behind them. <b>This PCA could be an argument against BOO being ancient Uralic.</b></i><br /><br />I'm glad that you agree that Siberian HG weren't the source of Uralic languages:<br />https://i.postimg.cc/Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73183133671175147192019-12-08T15:02:06.960-08:002019-12-08T15:02:06.960-08:00One "advantage" of the Vahaduo Custom PC...One "advantage" of the Vahaduo Custom PCA mode, is that if you've got a diverse set, but you don't want some property of some of the samples "hijacking" the whole PCA, then projection can help with that.<br /><br />E.g. datasheet using ancients to form a PCA, then with all modern South Asian samples projected on it: https://imgur.com/a/S5np9iv<br /><br />If all the Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50605602794701935572019-12-08T14:50:44.546-08:002019-12-08T14:50:44.546-08:00@Huck Finn
West_Siberia_N is now Sosonivoy_HG and...@Huck Finn<br /><br />West_Siberia_N is now Sosonivoy_HG and Tyumen_HG.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26894982004252625792019-12-08T14:16:25.380-08:002019-12-08T14:16:25.380-08:00Another quick datasheet for Vahaduo's new mode...Another quick datasheet for Vahaduo's new mode, made for analysis of the PAK_IA samples - https://pastebin.com/RkLc8DMT<br /><br />Example: https://imgur.com/a/SugMIjX.<br /><br />Same sheet with Paniyas as a proxy for un-sampled ancient ASI - https://pastebin.com/pcJctQ5R<br /><br />Example: https://imgur.com/a/6ehBKO0Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14126155672752680042019-12-08T14:13:36.106-08:002019-12-08T14:13:36.106-08:00@ D: do I recall it right that WSHG was relabeled ...@ D: do I recall it right that WSHG was relabeled as RUS_Tyumen_HG?<br /><br />@ Slumbery: yes and my comment was mainly kind of add-on vs. that of yours. Queequeghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04033948224040118380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61806151962126828252019-12-08T13:25:06.123-08:002019-12-08T13:25:06.123-08:00If anyone has an interest in exploring the new fea...If anyone has an interest in exploring the new feature that Vahaduo has provided, to look at the affinities of the ancient Italian samples, datasheet here: https://pastebin.com/kqiQfYHB<br /><br />(Based on a subset of G25 samples I selected for this purpose and analyzed with PAST, but the big advantage of Vahaduo's explorer over that is being able to easily tell more about which individual Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16790437999026167262019-12-08T12:28:07.970-08:002019-12-08T12:28:07.970-08:00@Slumbery
Target: RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov (no BO...@Slumbery<br /><br />Target: RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov (no BOO006)<br />Distance: 4.6456% / 0.04645576<br />41.6 RUS_Shamanka_EBA<br />27.8 RUS_Tyumen_HG<br />17.8 NOR_N_HG<br />11.2 Baltic_EST_BA<br />1.6 SWE_TRB<br /><br />Target: RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov (no BOO006)<br />Distance: 3.8180% / 0.03817973<br />39.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA_o<br />30.0 RUS_Shamanka_EBA<br />14.4 NOR_N_HG<br />12.0 Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55320406574710045162019-12-08T12:23:08.889-08:002019-12-08T12:23:08.889-08:00@ Slumbery
I would not be so sure that they compl...@ Slumbery<br /><br />I would not be so sure that they completely lack Steppe ancestry as in the admixture analysis of Lamnidis et al, BOO samples do have Yamnaya when their ancestry is distributed between WHG, Karelia HG, LBK, Yamnaya and Nganasan, and the percentages are not even insignificant.<br /><br />Supplementary table 4 (file:///C:/Users/omistaja/Downloads/media-1%20(1).pdf)<br /><br />IKristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5745238638556328362019-12-08T11:42:29.850-08:002019-12-08T11:42:29.850-08:00@JuanRivera
Originally I did not, but I have look...@JuanRivera<br /><br />Originally I did not, but I have looked at it just now. It is not better than Motala_HG. <br /><br />Some example runs:<br /><br />"sample": "RUS_Bolshoy_Oleni_Ostrov:Average",<br /> "fit": 4.7346,<br /> "RUS_Shamanka_EBA": 46.67,<br /> "RUS_Karelia_HG": 38.33,<br /> "SWE_TRB": 6.67,<br /> "Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1838943547704280822019-12-08T10:28:45.698-08:002019-12-08T10:28:45.698-08:00@Kristiina
Considering all the modern elements of...@Kristiina<br /><br /><i>Considering all the modern elements of the Bolshoy site, I expect that yDNA N came to Bolshoy from the south,...</i><br /><br />Well, Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov is kind of the end of the world northward, so everything non-indigenous comes from South in general, but other than that how south are we talking about? BOO does not have steppe ancestry and this puts a pretty hard Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.com