tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post2310196578739654460..comments2024-03-19T04:18:48.805-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The ancient genomics revolution (Skoglund & Mathieson 2017 preprint)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger203125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79227913958922374852017-12-03T00:18:14.071-08:002017-12-03T00:18:14.071-08:00Olympos
This connection of Shulaveri and Yamna mt...Olympos<br /><br />This connection of Shulaveri and Yamna mtdna are remarkable offcourse. But mtdna can be sometimes misleading. For example H5 was found in Carpathian Neolithic, CT. Then in Sintashta. One may think that G2-s migrated to South Ural, but nope it was R1a warriors. So you see that mitogenomes can change their "husbands".<br />Anyway I assure You that Y dna of Shulaveri Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12868113760877476372017-12-02T08:31:37.823-08:002017-12-02T08:31:37.823-08:00@ Shahanshah of Persia: While I concede the point ...@ Shahanshah of Persia: <i>While I concede the point that the Indo-Europeans did establish ruling castes in Southern Europe and the Middle East, one cannot deny the influence the natives of these regions had on their rulers, both culturally, and to a lesser extent, genetically as well. </i><br /><br />As I understand it, the sequence for Western Iranian peoples in Iran was one of entering the Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58338101891877582392017-12-02T07:27:00.809-08:002017-12-02T07:27:00.809-08:00@ Rob,
you mention a chronology for Pit-Grave (Ya...@ Rob,<br /><br />you mention a chronology for Pit-Grave (Yamnaya) culture by Frinculeasa and Heyd (2015), but this is "only" for Lower Danube (Hungarian plain), a region of later movement, not the core region.<br /><br />Here is the Pit-Grave (Yamnaya) Culture´s chronology in the "original" zone of Volga-Ural interfluve:<br /><br />- Early (Repino) Stage (4000-3300 BC)<br /><Carlos Aramayohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15078753727610139222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43776087008346027522017-12-02T02:56:25.990-08:002017-12-02T02:56:25.990-08:00@Aram,
Adding to previous.
Yes H2a was found in Ku...@Aram,<br />Adding to previous.<br />Yes H2a was found in Kum6...but Kum6 is 4600BC south black sea shores...shulaveri is 6000-5000bc and dispersal started 5000BC. If not earlier by Ubaid to Halaf transition to those closer to Halaf, the armenian Shulaveri.<br /> Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36185066877023491562017-12-02T02:50:45.616-08:002017-12-02T02:50:45.616-08:00@Aram,
No, no! This is why I am pushing questions ...@Aram,<br />No, no! This is why I am pushing questions about H15a1<br />a. Shulaveri H15a1 is found by 6000bc in the arriving population of Shulaveri to Armenia. And we know that at least their cattle/sheep was coming from Anatolia not iran (just next to them).<br />b. We have H15 then in steppe Yamnaya (as we have I1 another Shulaveri mtdna found).<br />c. We have downclades H15a1a1 in Armenia/Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75766130120244682522017-12-02T00:46:53.139-08:002017-12-02T00:46:53.139-08:00Well H2a was found in Kumtepe6. But Kum6 is from E...Well H2a was found in Kumtepe6. But Kum6 is from East.Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76421452522414525912017-12-02T00:28:01.196-08:002017-12-02T00:28:01.196-08:00Olympos
There is no problem with Margaryan's ...Olympos<br /><br />There is no problem with Margaryan's data. Most of them are high coverage and full sequence enough to be added in Ian Logan's website.<br />http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h15_genbank_sequences.htm<br /><br />Those Shulaveri mtdna were never found in Anatolia Neolithic and EEF. So I don't think they came from west.<br />I think in Meshoko we will see Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54333612049927873552017-12-01T12:31:07.830-08:002017-12-01T12:31:07.830-08:00Thanks Carlos. I was just a little surprised you m...Thanks Carlos. I was just a little surprised you mentioned him, because he is someone I normally associated with Uralic and more northern latitudes, but you're right he sets out a good summary. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5883399157897486472017-12-01T12:19:43.877-08:002017-12-01T12:19:43.877-08:00@Rob,
you wrote: "Parpola?"
I suppose ...@Rob,<br /><br />you wrote: "Parpola?"<br /><br />I suppose that means you want details on Parpola`s view and sources regarding Yamnaya, to which he calls "Yamnaya (Pit Grave) cultural complex". Following quoting is from his paper:<br /><br />Parpola, Asko, 2012 (2013). "Formation of the Indo-European and Uralic (Finno-Ugric) language families in the light of archaeology&Carlos Aramayohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15078753727610139222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72205186500485005672017-12-01T12:16:20.073-08:002017-12-01T12:16:20.073-08:00@Philippe
"It may also have to do with the ...@Philippe <br /><br />"It may also have to do with the fact that most of the population in the ancient western world was located in or around the meditteranean and miiddle-East. In the northern regions the indo-Europeans had no populations to rule over other than themselves, whereas in the much more populous south they could set themselves up as ruling classes with large populations of Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783059930095629402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82765605870663548542017-12-01T12:15:27.359-08:002017-12-01T12:15:27.359-08:00@Philippe
"Some of them were, certainly. Bu...@Philippe <br /><br />"Some of them were, certainly. But I'm talking about the later steppe cultures, who were apparently the classic blond, blue eyed 'nordic' -type 'aryans' which were often written about in pre-PC historical accounts. I'm not sure exactly where they came from or how they supplanted the earlier steppe people, but they seem to have had a genetic mix Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783059930095629402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72269750339535640612017-12-01T11:29:54.203-08:002017-12-01T11:29:54.203-08:00It may also have to do with the fact that most of ...It may also have to do with the fact that most of the population in the ancient western world was located in or around the meditteranean and miiddle-East. In the northern regions the indo-Europeans had no populations to rule over other than themselves, whereas in the much more populous south they could set themselves up as ruling classes with large populations of subject workers.Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81799062340573483172017-12-01T11:23:51.087-08:002017-12-01T11:23:51.087-08:00"Since northern Europe did not have any large..."Since northern Europe did not have any large scale preexisting civilization, the Indo-Europeans struggled to establish anything notable early on"<br /><br />The indo-Europeans were originally semi-nomadic warrior types and not as civilised as the farmer-types they encountered in their migrations. However they appear to have come up with certain key technological innovations, which may Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71687064220770274072017-12-01T11:07:40.353-08:002017-12-01T11:07:40.353-08:00"Yamnaya were dark haired and brown eyed, wit..."Yamnaya were dark haired and brown eyed, with a fairly light pigment."<br /><br />Some of them were, certainly. But I'm talking about the later steppe cultures, who were apparently the classic blond, blue eyed 'nordic' -type 'aryans' which were often written about in pre-PC historical accounts. I'm not sure exactly where they came from or how they supplanted theAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8373087984842007032017-12-01T10:41:40.529-08:002017-12-01T10:41:40.529-08:00@Arkaim "What are the chances of thr GAC geno...@Arkaim "What are the chances of thr GAC genomes being sequenced from slaves?"<br /><br />Not exactly on the subject of GAC but of subjugation and EEF origin substrates in Germanic:<br /><br />"skalka- (m.) "servant." Proto-Germanic. Intriguingly proposed to be from the name of a subjugated people. Boutkan & Siebinga 2013; Kroonen 2014."<br /><br />From The Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06866017044412004888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11348886933384297952017-12-01T10:15:57.165-08:002017-12-01T10:15:57.165-08:00@Arkaim Not really like Islam. Do you mean like Ar...@Arkaim Not really like Islam. Do you mean like Arabs? Anyway, Arabs did not have a similar genetic impact as the Indo-Europeans, but both were certainly borrowers, rather than innovators. The Indo-Europeans borrowed much of their civilization from non-Indo-European peoples, i.e. Indus Valley peoples, Elamites, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Minoans, Etruscans, etc. <br /><br />@Philippe Yamnaya were Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783059930095629402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90681916968053931992017-12-01T10:10:01.239-08:002017-12-01T10:10:01.239-08:00@ OM
Thanks. Hopefully more samples come from Port...@ OM<br />Thanks. Hopefully more samples come from Portugal, a difficult area for aDNA with its aridity and soils. <br /><br /><br />@ Supernord<br /><br />How do you think proto-forts were developed in these people ? Contact with Unetice or HUngary ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80257856776935626512017-12-01T10:03:18.182-08:002017-12-01T10:03:18.182-08:00@Davidski
Do you know if we will be getting more ...@Davidski<br /><br />Do you know if we will be getting more papers on Mycenaens anytime soon?<br /><br />Also, when are the South Asian papers coming?<br /><br /><br />@Supernord<br /><br />I'm still waiting on the expert geologists. Do they work with Anonymous or something?Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72420886731729379932017-12-01T09:53:08.532-08:002017-12-01T09:53:08.532-08:00Just an oddity for these days.
Bell beakers in Por...Just an oddity for these days.<br />Bell beakers in Portugal (the oldest) were a specific people that lived in a 50 KM region. So Rui Martniano et al was such a botched job because he got samples from has beens in a cave not really anything bell beakers. Truly shame on him. <br />Anyway. These Bell beakers were clearly connected to the VNSP culture, the fortified settlement that closed and Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25910737718760457962017-12-01T09:27:41.326-08:002017-12-01T09:27:41.326-08:00Some include the dating of the Poltavka culture in...Some include the dating of the Poltavka culture in the Yamnaya culture, calling first the Yamno-Poltavka culture. In fact, Poltavka culture is different from the Yamnaya primarily in ceramics. <br /><br />It is possible to distinguish three layers Poltavka people: <br /><br />1. Actually anthropological descendants of pit culture people, who are called Yamno-Poltavka. <br /><br />2. A distinct Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52021685840897233932017-12-01T09:10:12.208-08:002017-12-01T09:10:12.208-08:00By the way. Extracting Dna will become ubiquitous ...By the way. Extracting Dna will become ubiquitous and only then we will have the full picture, the complex filigrane of humans moving everywhere all the time and mostly males taking exchanging wives with other tribes. So in the end there will be a very complex diagram to describe what some today are oversimplifying. <br /> Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67543345825139001592017-12-01T08:43:46.383-08:002017-12-01T08:43:46.383-08:00@Rob,
Same as ever. Thanks for asking. Always a c...@Rob,<br />Same as ever. Thanks for asking. Always a chance to summarize/explain.<br /><br />a. Type A- 7000BC (or already there) – a very much pastoral (Ovčarovo Gorata/Iron gates) moved from Balkans/thrace along the south shores of black sea. -- (R1b-M269 - mostly WHG a bit of EHG (as iron gates did) and EEF).<br /><br />b. 6000BC, with a more solid mudbrick architecture (from something like Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36416857930141714572017-12-01T08:36:52.183-08:002017-12-01T08:36:52.183-08:00@Rob Thanks. That clarifies a lot@Rob Thanks. That clarifies a lotArchaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48514257903693570932017-12-01T08:28:33.098-08:002017-12-01T08:28:33.098-08:00@EastPole
The plant itself isn't so important,...@EastPole<br />The plant itself isn't so important, but the manufacturing process. Grape, Barley, Wheat, Rice, Potato, Maize - really doesn't matter.<br />Actually, this wouldn't be an argument against, but something to look for positively.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2745721429634451332017-12-01T08:26:05.268-08:002017-12-01T08:26:05.268-08:00The optimal direct readings as of current from the...<br />The optimal direct readings as of current from the Field that do the datings<br /><br />(2015) A. Frînculeasa, B. Preda & V. Heyd, Pit-Graves, Yamnaya and Kurgans at the Lower Danube: Disentangling late 4th and early 3rd Millennium BC Burial Customs, Equipment and Chronology<br /><br />Multidisciplinary Contributions to the Study of Pit Grave Culture Kurgans of the Great Hungarian PlainRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com