tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post2589333501854471536..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The genetic history of Northern Europe (or rather the South Baltic)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74902168637874244332017-03-07T16:04:19.375-08:002017-03-07T16:04:19.375-08:00Sein and Alberto,
Which samples does Onge seem to...Sein and Alberto,<br /><br />Which samples does Onge seem to be taking over on Qpadm? and more generally, why is Onge capturing ANE affinity, shouldn't East Asians capture this affinity better if ANE is Basal-East Asian admixed?jparadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16998158278342485362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4339658802944455252017-03-05T09:59:39.657-08:002017-03-05T09:59:39.657-08:00@Sein
Thanks for testing that. After further inve...@Sein<br /><br />Thanks for testing that. After further investigation, this is probably related to some excess of ANE not well captured by other samples. Using weighted values and adding Karitiana I could get Paniya to 0% in the Srubnaya_outlier. With Itelmen instead, it is reduced to 1.2%. It didn't work for Okunevo, but I'm less confident in the quality of that sample.<br /><br />Yes, Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9271410773447650652017-03-05T06:14:11.112-08:002017-03-05T06:14:11.112-08:00Alberto,
For what it's worth, they get 0% fro...Alberto,<br /><br />For what it's worth, they get 0% from my ASI simulation.<br /><br />Although, I do have to agree with you, qpAdm seems to be rather generous with the Onge estimates. <br /><br />In fact, if I recall correctly, Russian_West was at 6% Onge! Furthermore, I've seen northwestern Iranians modeled as 10% Onge.<br /><br />Yet, with nMonte, I find 0% ASI for all Europeans (Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16719339755839409672017-03-05T05:00:09.294-08:002017-03-05T05:00:09.294-08:00@Davidski
That's strange. with formal stats A...@Davidski<br /><br />That's strange. with formal stats ASI seems to be all over the place, as shown in your models for Europeans. No idea why they wouldn't show up a sample like Srubnaya_outlier.<br /><br />@Sein<br /><br />Yes, I just used Chamar to reproduce the results from Ryukendo. It happens with Paniya too. The reason, I don't know. Maybe you can try with the ASI simulation Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6148696144955082192017-03-05T04:53:32.360-08:002017-03-05T04:53:32.360-08:00The Chamar are more West Eurasian than anything el...The Chamar are more West Eurasian than anything else; their ASI is probably somewhere between 45% and 30%, so Chamar scores for Okunevo are likely reflective of shared ANE and Basal, as Shaikorth has already suggested.Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79647292193798826322017-03-05T04:08:11.490-08:002017-03-05T04:08:11.490-08:00I can model Okunevo as part South Indian, but it&#...I can model Okunevo as part South Indian, but it's not necessary for a good fit. AG3, Steppe_EBA and Ulchi are fine as references.<br /><br />I can't get a good fit for Srubnaya_outlier with South Indian or Onge.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86943108164455238542017-03-05T03:55:56.336-08:002017-03-05T03:55:56.336-08:00It's missing in Sintashta, Srubnaya and Potapo...It's missing in Sintashta, Srubnaya and Potapovka, and only traces can be detected in Andronovo and Scyhian_IA (1.7% and 2% respectively).Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90571666632809331982017-03-05T03:34:26.752-08:002017-03-05T03:34:26.752-08:00Is this Chamar present in just these samples or is...Is this Chamar present in just these samples or is it something more common (and likely caused by shared ANE and basal, not ASI) in the steppe samples?Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18193861511171228972017-03-05T03:23:52.083-08:002017-03-05T03:23:52.083-08:00In Ryu's post above, Okunevo get's some 4%...In Ryu's post above, Okunevo get's some 4% Chamar. So I checked that and I get the same results. Then I checked Srubnaya_outlier to see if it was noise in Okunevo (low quality) but I get similar results:<br /><br /> Srubnaya_outlier:I0354 <br /> Karelia_HG:I0061 40.85 %<br /> Kotias:KK1 26.35 %<br /> AfontovaGora3:I9050.damage 25.9 %<br /> Chamar 6.9 %<br />Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3454019151405525562017-03-05T02:21:13.773-08:002017-03-05T02:21:13.773-08:00Where are you seeing the ASI in Okunevo and Srubna...Where are you seeing the ASI in Okunevo and Srubnaya_outlier?Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63932885815039275202017-03-05T02:05:56.010-08:002017-03-05T02:05:56.010-08:00@Ryu
Interesting that he excess of ANE in Okunevo...@Ryu<br /><br />Interesting that he excess of ANE in Okunevo is also accompanied by some ASI. I think this is the same thing we see with the Srubnaya_outlier, which also has that excess of ANE and some amount of ASI. So maybe instead of MA1 types being further east in Siberia they were further south around the Pamirs?Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77882795114972368502017-03-04T15:35:56.929-08:002017-03-04T15:35:56.929-08:00On the topic of tests that can be done with new sa...On the topic of tests that can be done with new samples, doesn't apply to the Scythians, but the Bronze Age Baltic might be worth running through the Eurogenes K13 and K15.<br /><br />Probably sounds a bit retro and crazy to do on ancient samples I know, with the massive projection problems that have come up... but by the time of the Bronze Age Baltic (which is less than <1000 BC I think),Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64743743488176764422017-03-04T15:22:55.096-08:002017-03-04T15:22:55.096-08:00Those samples are low quality. They're likely ...Those samples are low quality. They're likely to produce skewed results in anything but formal stats.<br /><br />As far as I know, the same and many more East Asian samples have been sequenced by Harvard. They should be published soon.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13152967872605726022017-03-04T15:03:39.403-08:002017-03-04T15:03:39.403-08:00@ Ryu & Dave
Can Dave download those Amur va...@ Ryu & Dave <br /><br />Can Dave download those Amur valley genomes so we don't have to play around with modern proxies in modelling ENA ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60996701666490609492017-03-04T14:20:32.715-08:002017-03-04T14:20:32.715-08:00@Basil S
How similar is Latvia HG ZVEJ32 to these...@Basil S<br /><br /><i>How similar is Latvia HG ZVEJ32 to these? I know it's not formal, but nMonte seems to show German Beakers for example have a preference for Latvia HG ZVEJ32, over other WHG, almost everytime. It's like ZVEJ32 is something like what Yamnaya ran into before they made their incursion deeper into Central Europe.<br /><br />Or, Western Yamnaya really was ZVEJ32,Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71180759408656336722017-03-04T14:04:21.113-08:002017-03-04T14:04:21.113-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00824502055247415801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48200715158161556372017-03-04T14:00:47.970-08:002017-03-04T14:00:47.970-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00824502055247415801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10472966079044242822017-03-04T13:56:28.275-08:002017-03-04T13:56:28.275-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00824502055247415801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34899603623868780202017-03-04T13:43:26.619-08:002017-03-04T13:43:26.619-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00824502055247415801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69352950322875575982017-03-04T13:10:15.776-08:002017-03-04T13:10:15.776-08:00@Davidski/Anyone else
So who wants to bet that on...@Davidski/Anyone else<br /><br /><i>So who wants to bet that one of the western Yamnaya groups will be identical to Gyvakarai1, Plinkaigalis242 and Ardu2, including a shitload of Z645?</i><br /><br />How similar is Latvia HG ZVEJ32 to these? I know it's not formal, but nMonte seems to show German Beakers for example have a preference for Latvia HG ZVEJ32, over other WHG, almost everytime. It&Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06866017044412004888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71969989349134791522017-03-04T12:19:04.305-08:002017-03-04T12:19:04.305-08:00OT: For the other paper we haven't talked abou...OT: For the other paper we haven't talked about much here, anyone have any thoughts about the two Mesolithic, pre-Neolithic Sardinian mtdna sequences? http://www.nature.com/articles/srep42869. I3 and J2b1, not U, suggesting the pre-Neolithic may not have been WHG / Villabruna, in which case lower degree of WHG incorporation in Sardinia compared to the rest of Europe may make sense.<br /><br Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33857883837281873232017-03-04T10:56:38.181-08:002017-03-04T10:56:38.181-08:00Indeed. I read Verenich's great study a while ...Indeed. I read Verenich's great study a while back. I'm not a linguist, but I found one of his later points intriguing: the notion that Slavic speech was basically formed via a "deflection" of R1a "Baltic" by the lost language of I2a HG's. Do you happen to know the source of this idea? He has a bibliography but does not refer this point specifically.Dmytrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494390634041394412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86660638658414816032017-03-04T10:06:58.000-08:002017-03-04T10:06:58.000-08:00"In "hunter-gatherer rich" areas of..."In "hunter-gatherer rich" areas of the north..."<br />Agreed. Vadim Verenich published a very extensive article on this topic. His main findings are consistent with the Doggerland theory and the movement of huge numbers of Western hunter-gatherers to the East in the 7th millenium BC (6500-6200BC). Doggerland submersion obviously played a great role in the spread of I2a in theVolodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23221433599669227432017-03-04T09:48:08.031-08:002017-03-04T09:48:08.031-08:00Are we now saying that Narva culture is no longer ...Are we now saying that Narva culture is no longer Finnic in origin and ancestors of the ancient Balts?Gasparhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08803562810086047583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81590790460379632972017-03-04T08:47:41.583-08:002017-03-04T08:47:41.583-08:00"2x I2a1 in Narva
So the Slavic I2a1 has hun..."2x I2a1 in Narva <br />So the Slavic I2a1 has hunter gatherer origin or farmer?"<br /><br />There is no doubt that the ancient paternal "Slavic" marker is of hunter gatherer origin. Currently, however, we have no certainty as to its exact whereabouts in the Neolithic and Bronze ages. None of the discovered ancient DNA (so far) is "Slavic" I2a (=CTS 10228 and Dmytrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494390634041394412noreply@blogger.com