tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post2629734341291373444..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Descendants of Greeks in the medieval Himalayas?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62552290614689356452022-01-11T21:27:31.862-08:002022-01-11T21:27:31.862-08:00@aniasi @Anonymous
I received my ancestry report...@aniasi @Anonymous <br /><br />I received my ancestry report from 23andMe and found out that I have M30 as a maternal haplogroup and J-L26 as a paternal. I was searching for origins of M30/J-L26, and came across a reference<br /><br />https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_dna/slideshow_map.php?searchcolumn=Object_ID&searchfor=I3406&ybp=500000,0 <br /><br />where M30/J-L26 (Nat Comm says DNAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04109601446688836586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88905050528483061812017-11-13T06:59:50.060-08:002017-11-13T06:59:50.060-08:00@Arkaim
"WHG had the first Blue eyes"
I...<a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/11/descendants-of-greeks-in-medieval.html?showComment=1510413918640#c2663385392529079224" rel="nofollow">@Arkaim</a><br /><i>"WHG had the first Blue eyes"</i><br /><br />I can't recall any more the age of the earliest WHG sample that had blue eyes. However, derived alleles for blue eyes look to have been present in Iran Neolithic since Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11403247516093477342017-11-13T00:08:29.018-08:002017-11-13T00:08:29.018-08:00GailT, the U5 expert, found unpublished 382 mitoge...GailT, the U5 expert, found unpublished 382 mitogenomes from Pamir, including 14 U5 mitogenomes.<br /><br />http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1417-New-U5-sequences&p=310146&viewfull=1#post310146<br /><br />I've got 25k European low coverage mtDNA samples and 5k mitogenomes (inclu. lots of U5). Yeah, these Indian U5s do undoubtly fit within European U5 diversity or in other Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25154551399639584932017-11-12T11:31:49.787-08:002017-11-12T11:31:49.787-08:00Labayu
"On the topic of the Exodus, there are...Labayu<br />"On the topic of the Exodus, there are no scientific arguments to counter Finkelstein's position, which is the Exodus could not have happened as described in the text. This is a mainstream archeological view. That does not preclude the possibility that the text contains some essence of a historical memory, but even that remains speculative."<br /><br />based purely on myGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86479216034757852232017-11-12T11:00:25.128-08:002017-11-12T11:00:25.128-08:00@OG,
The North African thing seems legit. I did a...@OG,<br /><br />The North African thing seems legit. I did an admixture run with Berbers and it seemed this was in all Jews. I can try some graphs to see if the same shows up. I was wondering how I also got Berber showing up for myself, then thought of Alexandria too and noticed it in all Jews. I'll try to recreate it.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59729286881638724212017-11-12T00:47:46.095-08:002017-11-12T00:47:46.095-08:00The Exodus text itself is also filled with anachro...The Exodus text itself is also filled with anachronisms. Finkelstein is one of the most widely respected archaeologists working in the Levant. While his low chronology was initially met with signifigant opposition, even his most vocal critics have been forced by the evidence to adjust their views. The only reason I can imagine for having such a vehement objection to citing his work is a dogmatic Labayuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14890868350476424197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39230830972385940602017-11-11T17:16:05.199-08:002017-11-11T17:16:05.199-08:00Matt, that's a reasonable explanation. I'v...Matt, that's a reasonable explanation. I've considered that before. <br /><br />@Everyone,<br /><br />As far as I know if you model ashkenazi as a south European-Near Eastern mix they come out overwelmingly European. And keep in mind Greece was probably more "southern/basal" before Slavic admixture.<br /><br />Also, Sephardic Jews are clearly more Near Eastern than Ashkenazi. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15166651556547660852017-11-11T15:16:18.883-08:002017-11-11T15:16:18.883-08:00@ak2014b
Finkelstein's a discredited flake. I&...@ak2014b<br />Finkelstein's a discredited flake. I'm shocked anyone would seriously reference him.Spankedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17832052330007364701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4577616338367362072017-11-11T14:39:36.752-08:002017-11-11T14:39:36.752-08:00@ OG , or anyone
Slightly aside, does anyone hav...@ OG , or anyone<br /><br />Slightly aside, does anyone have any feeling about the history E-V22 in Sephardi ? Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83817618250401444272017-11-11T14:29:16.351-08:002017-11-11T14:29:16.351-08:00@Sam: I can definitely see northern European looks...@Sam: <i>I can definitely see northern European looks in Ashkenazi</i><br /><br />One thing that may be worth bearing in mind is that the Ashkenazis look to have come from a small founder population, and Xue and Carmi suggest it could be as low as 350 people <br />(https://www.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-descend-from-350-people-study-finds/). <br /><br />So if those people had an unusual Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47951141601740536692017-11-11T12:59:02.028-08:002017-11-11T12:59:02.028-08:00@ Samuel Andrews
"Phenotypically, I can defi...@ Samuel Andrews <br />"Phenotypically, I can definitely see northern European looks in Ashkenazi. For example, DNA has confirmed Ashkenazi have as high levels of red hair as Germans. Where do you think they got that from? Definitely not Greece or Italy or the ancient Hebrews."<br /><br />my pet theory is red hair is connected to the southern Urals so my answer to that would be trade Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12567667221732368692017-11-11T12:09:07.376-08:002017-11-11T12:09:07.376-08:00@Open Genomes
Iron Age (Israelite?) sample from A...@Open Genomes<br /><br /><i>Iron Age (Israelite?) sample from Abel-Beth-Maacah</i><br /><br />The material culture is Canaanite in the 11th-10th centuries BCE.<br /><br /><i>Here we see sample F38, from Tepe Hasanlu, Iran, East of Lake Urmia c. 850 BCE, which has a tMRCA with the "Ashkenazi" (Spira family) R-Y11410 clade at c. 2300 BCE.<br />YFull R-Y16852 tree<br /><br />Sergey Labayuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14890868350476424197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72073323151028680002017-11-11T09:10:11.160-08:002017-11-11T09:10:11.160-08:00IMHO, unphased D-statistics have reached their lim...IMHO, unphased D-statistics have reached their limit. A better model is IBD, particularly <i>phased</i> IBD, if possible. Even using IBD, there is always the possibility that the IBD derives from a common ancestor, not the ancient population in question. It seems that the Y-DNA of the Egyptian Saite Era mummies (J2b1-M205 and J1-Z2313) reflects the Middle Bronze Age 14th, 15th, and 16th Dynasty Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78108135595941157362017-11-11T09:09:43.398-08:002017-11-11T09:09:43.398-08:00Of course, these examples regarding Jewish admixtu...Of course, these examples regarding Jewish admixture and the Carmi et al. Bronze Age Canaanite study apply even more so to the Harney, Patterson et al. Medieval Roopkund samples. An affinity with "Greeks and Levantines" (clearly, not the same thing, unless one considers Cypriots) based on <i>modern</i> populations, would not be valid unless as some here pointed out, there were samples Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9206304017328171442017-11-11T08:04:47.866-08:002017-11-11T08:04:47.866-08:00@Arkaim:So not from the Middle East - these phenot...@Arkaim:<i>So not from the Middle East - these phenotypes in the Middle East and Central Asia are remnants of the Indo-European expansions.</i><br /><br />Blue eyes probably pre-IE in Anatolia at least, Mathieson et al states frequency of causal OCA2 allele almost identical between Anatolia_N (Barcin) and present day Spain: https://i.imgur.com/JGBLnfg.png<br /><br />Higher frequency in Central Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89172636979891304442017-11-11T07:46:27.647-08:002017-11-11T07:46:27.647-08:00Open Genomes
You mentioned back migrations and the...<b>Open Genomes</b><br />You mentioned back migrations and the Sea Peoples.<br />You might not have seen this yet then, this year of 2017 they managed to link the Luwians (an Indo-European society) to being the Sea Peoples.<br />They probably were Mycenaean-like with some other admixture from Anatolia, probably with a different level of Indo-European admixture as well, which I can't guess Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67768617720294656912017-11-11T07:27:02.200-08:002017-11-11T07:27:02.200-08:00Here are two concrete examples of how such studies...Here are two concrete examples of how such studies ignore direct evidence from ancient DNA:<br /><br />Here we see sample F38, from Tepe Hasanlu, Iran, East of Lake Urmia c. 850 BCE, which has a tMRCA with the "Ashkenazi" (Spira family) R-Y11410 clade at c. 2300 BCE.<br /><a href="https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y16852/" rel="nofollow">YFull R-Y16852 tree</a><br /><a href="https://kumbarov.comOpen Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26633853925290792242017-11-11T07:25:18.640-08:002017-11-11T07:25:18.640-08:00@Salden
We know this isn't true.
WHG had the f...<b>@Salden</b><br />We know this isn't true.<br />WHG had the first Blue eyes, Blonde hair comes from Afontova Gora and light skin was already present in SHG and EHG. Red hair is still fuzzy, but probably associated with R1b.<br />So not from the Middle East - these phenotypes in the Middle East and Central Asia are remnants of the Indo-European expansions.<br /><br /><b>@Open Genomes</b><br Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13615422440805455042017-11-11T07:25:02.998-08:002017-11-11T07:25:02.998-08:00The Carmi et al. Abstract that compares the Bronze...The Carmi et al. Abstract that compares the Bronze Age Canaanites from Megiddo and Iron Age (Israelite?) sample from Abel-Beth-Maacah to modern Jews suffers from the same flaw that as these other studies that attempt to compare modern populations to ancient samples: <br /><br />A valid comparison requires at least one other <i>contemporary</i> ancient DNA sample to form an outgroup.<br /><br />AsOpen Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15340802634923423912017-11-11T06:09:06.875-08:002017-11-11T06:09:06.875-08:00Among Ashkenazi Jews, mtDNA haplogroup L2a1l2, Y h...Among Ashkenazi Jews, mtDNA haplogroup L2a1l2, Y haplogroups E1a1-M33 and E-M81, and the autosomal Parkinson's disease risk allele LRRK2 G2019S allele are of North African origin. <br /><br /><br /><a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373" rel="nofollow">The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews - Moorjani et Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15440160506700654602017-11-11T05:38:43.678-08:002017-11-11T05:38:43.678-08:00I would like to point out another confounding fact...I would like to point out another confounding factor in determining the percentages of ancestral components among various Jewish populations:<br /><br />Both Sephardic Jews have up to 10% of the North African ("Mozabite"-like) component, less so among Ashkenazi Jews, who have about 2%-5%. Historically, the Jews of Alexandria were expelled in 415 with the Christianization of Egypt, and Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10877582522451512622017-11-11T04:31:39.284-08:002017-11-11T04:31:39.284-08:00Regarding Southern European admixture among Ashken...Regarding Southern European admixture among Ashkenazi Jews, I would like to repost a comment previously made in a different post about the migrations of Jews to and through Italy:<br /><br />As far as Ashkenazi Southern European admixture goes, aren't the "East Sicilians" and "South Italians" a better fit than the Tuscans?<br /><br />There are Jewish Medieval traditions Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44708427855102471502017-11-11T04:12:43.317-08:002017-11-11T04:12:43.317-08:00@ Samuel Andrews
Maybe from the Galatians ? @ Samuel Andrews <br /><br />Maybe from the Galatians ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86792842425373064902017-11-11T01:19:14.204-08:002017-11-11T01:19:14.204-08:00@Samuel Andrews
Phenotypically, I can definitely ...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br /><i>Phenotypically, I can definitely see northern European looks in Ashkenazi. For example, DNA has confirmed Ashkenazi have as high levels of red hair as Germans. Where do you think they got that from? Definitely not Greece or Italy or the ancient Hebrews.</i><br /><br />Red hair is pretty common in Samaritans as well. They've been endogamous for ~2,500 years and Labayuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14890868350476424197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56444854308910346582017-11-11T00:14:48.946-08:002017-11-11T00:14:48.946-08:00@Matt
"Human evolution during the last 500,0...@Matt<br /><br />"<i>Human evolution during the last 500,000 years<br /><br /><br /><br />This is a pretty divisive paragraph. Was there an early wave of H Sapiens which didn't have a competitive edge over archaics like Neanderthals, and was then totally replaced like archaics were...? I don't know if anyone will truly believe it unless we manage to actually sample HS in Eurasia Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com