tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3294945434464169063..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Eastern Europe as a bifurcation hotspot for Y-hg R1Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger594125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19214735712046521482019-02-13T15:41:48.530-08:002019-02-13T15:41:48.530-08:00@Joe Flood
Your comment is one of the most bizarr...@Joe Flood<br /><br />Your comment is one of the most bizarre things that I have read here in a long time. You appear to be totally out of touch with reality.<br /><br />For one, ADMIXTURE and PCA are only used in ancient DNA papers to broadly illustrate and back up the main findings from formal statistics analyses, like those with f4-stats, D-stats and f3-stats, and formal stats-based mixture Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63375448748793447012019-02-13T15:14:08.491-08:002019-02-13T15:14:08.491-08:00I find ADMIXTURE to be a deeply flawed concept and...I find ADMIXTURE to be a deeply flawed concept and PCA to be an unscientific methodology dropped by every other discipline except population genomics - where it continues to be used in statistically unsound ways for which it was never designed.<br /><br />I do not think that the Anatolian hypothesis is a dead duck at all, it is almost certainly true, just mishandled by a generation of population Joe Floodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684083205595693107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7880249024613150002015-02-25T03:40:07.778-08:002015-02-25T03:40:07.778-08:00Yes, the H subcladesYes, the H subcladesSrkzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713038610245740489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69546777976516465392015-02-24T23:22:24.730-08:002015-02-24T23:22:24.730-08:00Thanks, I just had a quick look. Are they saying t...Thanks, I just had a quick look. Are they saying that they also found mtDNA H in the remains from foragers?Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62399077437909834982015-02-24T22:33:34.669-08:002015-02-24T22:33:34.669-08:00Smolensk hunter-gatherer ~4000 BC was R1a !
http:/...Smolensk hunter-gatherer ~4000 BC was R1a !<br />http://www.academia.edu/9452168/Archaeology_of_lake_settlement_IV-II_mill._BC_Mazurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbunova_E._ed (table is on page 294)Srkzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713038610245740489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28860398053924107992015-02-20T07:47:09.121-08:002015-02-20T07:47:09.121-08:00Matt, I think that the main change between a PCA l...Matt, I think that the main change between a PCA like that and a West Eurasian PCA is the addition of WHG-less Southwest Asian populations like Saudis or Bedouins. That allows them to form Loschbour's opposite and moves some populations closer to Loschbour, while Sardinian-relatedness moves to dimension 2.<br /><br />That Euro PCA with Loschbour isn't that different from this one (ignore Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6199929928886626252015-02-20T07:02:08.532-08:002015-02-20T07:02:08.532-08:00Let's recapitulate: There was R1b1 in early Ne...Let's recapitulate: There was R1b1 in early Neolithic Spain and there was R1b1 in EHG in Samara. This means R1b1 was spread over a vast geographic area. We have no data from West Asia, but it's conceiveable that R1b1 was present there as well. Then, we have, a little closer to modern west European R1b, R1b1a in Yamnaya, and quite a bit closer, R1b1a2a. However, since there is obvious Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50977549843500538092015-02-20T06:45:01.345-08:002015-02-20T06:45:01.345-08:00David: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XSV9HEoq...David: <i>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XSV9HEoqpFMVNnd2RkSXNiTUE/view?usp=sharing</i><br />Shaikorth: <i>Thanks. I don't think that's too much of a problem as Loschbour defines both dimensions. If the PCA was hijacked by a modern population's drift it would look something ridiculous like this:<br />http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/08/23andmepcazoom1.png<br />I&#Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33624879009535766782015-02-20T03:40:50.614-08:002015-02-20T03:40:50.614-08:00@Ryan
ty@Ryan<br /><br />tyGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32268230149927616522015-02-19T16:51:12.939-08:002015-02-19T16:51:12.939-08:00@Grey
"Did they develop a caste society as a...@Grey<br /><br />"Did they develop a caste society as a result?"<br /><br />No, they assimilated and adopted people without prejudice. They were very very successful at this.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57719921075005848902015-02-19T15:51:37.206-08:002015-02-19T15:51:37.206-08:00Thanks. I don't think that's too much of a...Thanks. I don't think that's too much of a problem as Loschbour defines both dimensions. If the PCA was hijacked by a modern population's drift it would look something ridiculous like this:<br /><br />http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/08/23andmepcazoom1.png<br /><br />I'd say the main difference is that a West Eurasian PCA with Loschbour on it has no Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13738030746017710592015-02-19T15:12:08.771-08:002015-02-19T15:12:08.771-08:00The West Eurasian PCA correlates much better with ...The West Eurasian PCA correlates much better with ancient components because it's less heavily impacted by very recent drift and inflated IBS/IBD sharing.<br /><br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XSV9HEoqpFMVNnd2RkSXNiTUE/view?usp=sharingDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5560381573040080492015-02-19T14:40:35.568-08:002015-02-19T14:40:35.568-08:00"Really, I don't care about Reich being J..."Really, I don't care about Reich being Jewish, I don't even know it for sure, well I guess he is."<br /><br />And Laz is Greek, some say he's dienekes. So, I don't want to hear anyone say this paper is ethnocentric. This isn't personal to Reich because I'm sure he'd much rather write a paper about Jewish history.Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52806664468318707482015-02-19T14:23:02.736-08:002015-02-19T14:23:02.736-08:00David, I had an idea while having a discussion wit...David, I had an idea while having a discussion with Maju about how informative an Europe-only PCA with ancient genomes included is compared to one with other West Eurasians that might be interesting to test. Could you do a PCA with your dataset (since it has more populations with breakdowns) like this one:<br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQaHhna1ZsSnNJem8/view?usp=sharing<br />butShaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74263721632724022832015-02-19T13:18:13.896-08:002015-02-19T13:18:13.896-08:00Simon W
Your explanations interesting ; but to me...Simon W <br />Your explanations interesting ; but to me the low Yamnaya reading in the Carpathian bronze sample is a little problematic. Unless a sample bias; it might be that ANE source was decoupled to the R1b source for europe Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19965758722353354472015-02-19T10:23:42.347-08:002015-02-19T10:23:42.347-08:00@Mike
Since you asked, I did a google search and ...@Mike<br /><br />Since you asked, I did a google search and found more recent archaeological information about the part of Western Macedonia my husband is from. Archaeology does seem to be turning up a link between this part of Greece, the Myceneans, and Phrygian cities in Asia Minor.<br /><br />Here's the link:<br /><br />http://historum.com/ancient-history/Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44265057599308152282015-02-19T03:14:43.102-08:002015-02-19T03:14:43.102-08:00Another thought about the low Yamnaya-like admixtu...Another thought about the low Yamnaya-like admixture in Bronze Age Hungary:<br /><br />Maybe BR1 and BR2 are not indicative of the Yamnaya in the Carpathian Basin. BR1 lived several centuries after the Yamnaya incursion, and after the appearance of R1b in German Bell Beakers, moreover in the fully fledged Bronze Age, instead of the Copper Age. I think it's possible that BR1 was partly Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61667342637368500292015-02-19T02:55:41.697-08:002015-02-19T02:55:41.697-08:00Yamnaya were 50% like modern West Asians, not 50% ...Yamnaya were 50% like modern West Asians, not 50% West Asian.<br /><br />We don't know what West Asians were like during the Neolithic, but it's a good bet that they didn't have any ANE admixture, and if so, this means Yamnaya were less than 50% West Asian.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31666655719976066472015-02-19T02:44:55.493-08:002015-02-19T02:44:55.493-08:00Marnie, some of the people funding the paper have ...Marnie, some of the people funding the paper have a big problem with a partial contribution to R1b rich populations from the southern side of the Black Sea? Really?? :-D Then they must be terribly disappointed about the result that, according to the paper, Yamnaya was 50% West Asian! :-D Apparently the authors didn't care about the alleged wishes of their sponsors.<br /><br />Yes, the Nazis Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56549916637576144332015-02-19T00:49:25.266-08:002015-02-19T00:49:25.266-08:00Glad you liked Salonika.Glad you liked Salonika.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9363013805909037102015-02-18T20:56:03.719-08:002015-02-18T20:56:03.719-08:00Yes I've been and it is very niceYes I've been and it is very nice Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10177300680030422922015-02-18T20:52:22.134-08:002015-02-18T20:52:22.134-08:00"It is only modern nationalism, politics and ..."It is only modern nationalism, politics and war which made them "choose' to either be Greek, or Slav, or Albanian, or whatever."<br /><br />Well, I never hear anyone in the village talk about Alexander the Great, if that's what you mean. They're not particularly overtly nationalistic.<br /><br />I think you would like Salonika. It's more low key, and safer, than Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-965623186242823472015-02-18T20:38:24.311-08:002015-02-18T20:38:24.311-08:00Marnie
You have misunderstood
Of course Macedoni...Marnie<br /><br />You have misunderstood<br /><br />Of course Macedonia , and Macedonians exist. Slav, Greek, Vlach, Albanian speaking Macedonians have all lived there for hundreds if not over a thousand years, and happily called themslves Macedonians. It is only modern nationalism, politics and war which made them "choose' to either be Greek, or Slav, or Albanian, or whatever. But the Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28792867426269690692015-02-18T19:45:23.860-08:002015-02-18T19:45:23.860-08:00@Mike
"What I said earlier about 'no Mac...@Mike<br /><br />"What I said earlier about 'no Macedonians' is those ancient macedonians no longer exist. Sure, here and there people on both side of the border are descended from them, but as a distinct people they're long gone. That's why people arguing about who's 'more Macedonia' is stupid. :)"<br /><br />Mike, I'm not going to get into a Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12691990437075659862015-02-18T19:15:10.473-08:002015-02-18T19:15:10.473-08:00@ Chad
"The Neolithic is out of the Balkans....@ Chad<br /><br />"The Neolithic is out of the Balkans... Just G, I, and C."<br /><br />You mean you're confident that there was no R1 M269 in the Balkans ? Maybe<br /><br />@ Marnie<br /><br />What I said earlier about 'no Macedonians' is those ancient macedonians no longer exist. Sure, here and there people on both side of the border are descended from them, but as a Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.com