tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3374903525917666874..comments2024-03-18T22:01:02.498-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The really old Europe is mostly in Eastern EuropeDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger118125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25096935832046088052014-05-05T05:20:13.671-07:002014-05-05T05:20:13.671-07:00Cite for English criticisms of late Celtic/Irish t...Cite for English criticisms of late Celtic/Irish transhumance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#cite_ref-59<br /><br /><i>As proofs for this origin Spenser cites the alleged Irish customs of blood-drinking, nomadic lifestyle, the wearing of mantles and certain haircuts and<br /><br /> Cryes allsoe vsed amongeste the Irishe which savor greatlye of the Scythyan Barbarisme.</i><br /><br />.About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56343847229013957582014-05-05T04:58:18.279-07:002014-05-05T04:58:18.279-07:00Not this again. Dipping in anyway:
Not clear to m...Not this again. Dipping in anyway:<br /><br />Not clear to me that the palest skin goes with blond/blue and was effect of same natural/sexual selection.<br /><br />Most Scandinavian/German/Slavic blonds with light hair/eyes can tan really well. <br /><br />The nontanners are the Irish and some Brits (not including the Scandi looking English type though). Irish are not especially blond, with very About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69679725419058474592014-05-04T18:36:43.738-07:002014-05-04T18:36:43.738-07:00Grey,
"It seems plausible to me (to the poin...Grey,<br /><br />"It seems plausible to me (to the point it ought to be the default assumption) that in sunny climates this phenotype would be strongly selected against but in cloudier climates maybe not.<br /><br />(And during the LGM "cloudier" climates may have extended much further south e.g. perhaps as far south as North Africa and Iran.)<br /><br />So I think that phenotype Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81289101935329437782014-04-24T10:46:24.069-07:002014-04-24T10:46:24.069-07:00@About Time
"So maybe skin depigmentation st...@About Time<br /><br />"So maybe skin depigmentation started out as partly a "side effect" of natural selection on the brain."<br /><br />Interesting thought.<br /><br />"since the other factors we talk about seem sort of underwhelming for genes hat reached near fixation in places."<br /><br />I dunno. I'd agree if it was dark-skinned people developing a tanning Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76336892704661317222014-04-24T10:21:05.406-07:002014-04-24T10:21:05.406-07:00@Grey, there is also neuromelanin. No idea if the ...@Grey, there is also neuromelanin. No idea if the genes for neuromelanin production/regulation interact with the molecular pathways involved in skin/hair/eye pigment. <br /><br />There is a dark part of the brain (substantia nigra) involved in behavior and motor function. It's related to cells involved in dopamine (important neurotransmitter) regulation.<br /><br />Whole other can of worms About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54968824787847224572014-04-24T09:59:16.917-07:002014-04-24T09:59:16.917-07:00@About Time
"hmm well so you are saying medi...@About Time<br /><br />"hmm well so you are saying medieval Irish were more WHG, and medieval Vikings were more ANE?"<br /><br />Actually I was just about to correct that bit of my post when I saw your comment. I haven't actually thought about which is which or even if they were distinct in the first place.<br /><br />My original point was purely wondering aloud about what might Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47036247664094961022014-04-24T09:54:06.458-07:002014-04-24T09:54:06.458-07:00@Barak
There are two forms of melanin: eumelanin ...@Barak<br /><br />There are two forms of melanin: eumelanin and pheomelanin. Pale skin, green eyes and red hair is the natural result if you reduce eumelanin while keeping pheomelanin the same.<br /><br />http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Common/India/Indian_Albinos/The_Bhatti.jpg<br /><br />(Similarly blonde hair and blue eyes occur if you reduce *both* eumelanin *and* Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28948513184609801962014-04-24T09:27:47.484-07:002014-04-24T09:27:47.484-07:00@Grey, hmm well so you are saying medieval Irish ...@Grey, hmm well so you are saying medieval Irish were more WHG, and medieval Vikings were more ANE?<br /><br />Well good point is that Viking pops weren't necessarily the same as general pops of modern Scandinavia. They might have had fighters from more remote pockets of Scandinavia (higher ANE? Maybe, why not) plus random mixture from their domains all around Baltic and North Sea coasts (About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23021449102365943842014-04-24T09:12:33.490-07:002014-04-24T09:12:33.490-07:00@About Time
"my idea is that WHG were more se...@About Time<br />"my idea is that WHG were more sea-littoral (coast) adapted, and ANE were more continental adapted. Culturally and (esp in early technology phases) maybe physically."<br /><br />That fits my mental model better than south and north now you mention it.<br /><br />#<br /><br />"Environmental natural selection in Viking age Icelanders should not have any effect on WHGGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16542074025397444462014-04-21T23:55:42.404-07:002014-04-21T23:55:42.404-07:00I have some more thoughts on the origins of modern...I have some more thoughts on the origins of modern European pigmentation.<br /><br />Many genes have SNPs that are suppose to help cause light skin in Europeans. La Brana-1 and Loschbour had no notable ones(missing multiple which are fixated in modern Europeans), except for rs12203592 T/T(Loschbour) T/C(La brana-1. Motala12 though notably had the C11 haplotype, rs28777 A/A(in gene SLC45A2), and Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66716328493366044282014-04-21T13:53:10.758-07:002014-04-21T13:53:10.758-07:00@Grey, my idea is that WHG were more sea-littoral ...@Grey, my idea is that WHG were more sea-littoral (coast) adapted, and ANE were more continental adapted. Culturally and (esp in early technology phases) maybe physically. <br /><br />So far ANE shows up in interior continental spots mostly. Even Sweden counts as far as weather goes (Siberian winter with cold/dry air and lots of snow). <br /><br />WHG is Spain, France (I can almost smell the wineAbout Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18750271670033588782014-04-21T10:04:35.159-07:002014-04-21T10:04:35.159-07:00"Yes, I think the more recent SSA admix among..."Yes, I think the more recent SSA admix among the Bedouin is likely to show up, while the more ancient stuff often won't."<br /><br />Is it possible that people are using post Bantu expansion SSA to compare with instead of whatever kind of SSA was in East Africa before the Bantu expansion?<br /><br />#<br /><br />@About Time<br /><br />"Maybe WHG-SHG were trampsing around in Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4055825623628409222014-04-16T18:23:25.172-07:002014-04-16T18:23:25.172-07:00Fossil from Neolithic Europe(Nanuk). Are light hai...Fossil from Neolithic Europe(Nanuk). Are light hair-eyes-skin connected in Sardinians. It's very frustrating trying to figure this stuff out, and learning whether that is true or not for Sardinians is key. Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57313184860806532612014-04-16T14:00:57.958-07:002014-04-16T14:00:57.958-07:00"It's funny to see everyday all these inc..."It's funny to see everyday all these incompetents obsessed in we sardinians, arguing idiotic theories about us, on the basis of unscientific studies realised on samples of 10-20 volunteer persons.<br />May be they think to be true genetists, while we are a sort of guinea pigs in a lab."<br /><br />Many studies have found Sardinians are the closest modern relatives to early EuropeanKrefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32228322443129383332014-04-16T06:48:17.869-07:002014-04-16T06:48:17.869-07:00Uh oh, we have an intellectual giant amongst us, f...Uh oh, we have an intellectual giant amongst us, from Sardinia no less, and his name's Nanuk.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54293728401399358892014-04-16T06:37:01.420-07:002014-04-16T06:37:01.420-07:00Shrug. Similar might be true for Corsicans or Bale...Shrug. Similar might be true for Corsicans or Balearics or Icelanders or Manx or Aran Islanders for that matter. Islands can preserve aspects of genetic diversity that are harder to see elsewhere (still there, but more swamped out among many other aggregating favors).<br /><br />It's just endogamy by geography instead of by mating choice. Different cause, same effect. About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62002923125154180362014-04-16T06:29:40.805-07:002014-04-16T06:29:40.805-07:00It's funny to see everyday all these incompete...It's funny to see everyday all these incompetents obsessed in we sardinians, arguing idiotic theories about us, on the basis of unscientific studies realised on samples of 10-20 volunteer persons.<br />May be they think to be true genetists, while we are a sort of guinea pigs in a lab.<br /><br /> nanukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05850630012868313209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23658633223081938002014-04-15T18:26:27.219-07:002014-04-15T18:26:27.219-07:00"In other words, maybe what you need is a Neo..."In other words, maybe what you need is a Neolithic diet, cloudy climate, and the right blend of Neolithic farmer and European hunter-gatherer DNA to lighten up significantly in a just a few thousand years."<br /><br />Were Sardinian-like late Neolithic northern European farmers lighter pigmented than their early Neolithic ancestors who lived a couple thousand years before? If not, a Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64349091999704646712014-04-15T00:25:08.761-07:002014-04-15T00:25:08.761-07:00Probably...
"MA-1 individual was predicted a...Probably...<br /><br />"MA-1 individual was predicted as having relatively dark pigmentation for hair, skin and eyes. However, we note that this analysis is based on only 17 SNPs at low depth-of-coverage, and even with the full set of SNPs the method has limited prediction accuracy."<br /><br />But apparently he had freckles.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80870033460284262072014-04-14T23:06:15.885-07:002014-04-14T23:06:15.885-07:00The mal'ta boy was very dark right?The mal'ta boy was very dark right?spagetiMeatballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01324633097628826684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74376954524578304682014-04-14T21:42:32.482-07:002014-04-14T21:42:32.482-07:00The fact that the Neolithic farmer-like Sardinians...The fact that the Neolithic farmer-like Sardinians are amongst the most brunet of Europeans is a strong argument that the light pigmentation of North-Central-East Europeans can't simply be ascribed to a Neolithic diet.<br /><br />But the thing is that North-Central-East Europeans don't live on Sardinia, where I'm sure it's a lot more sunny than north of the Pyrenees, Alps and Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18354725478836424142014-04-14T19:27:08.294-07:002014-04-14T19:27:08.294-07:00I googled Sardinians to see if i could find dark s...I googled Sardinians to see if i could find dark skinned-black haired-blue eyed indviduals because they are nearly no differnt from Neolithic central-west-north-other regions(?) European farmers genetically. If through evolution after the Mesolithic light hair-eyes-skin in northern Europeans ancestors became popular and connected, it did not occur in nearly all Sardinians ancestors.<br /><br />Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89466726442513245382014-04-12T23:38:21.832-07:002014-04-12T23:38:21.832-07:00This is somewhat on subject, it's about the or...This is somewhat on subject, it's about the origin of modern European pigmentation. <br /><br />Since Basque have a very small amount of ANE ancestry, have much more WHG than other Iberians(probably 40% or more in total) and most of it is indigenous(La Brana-1 like), and the majority of their ancestry is probably from Stuttgart/Otzi/Cardiel like farmers shouldn't we see a dark skin-black Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72463103066233140382014-04-11T09:54:28.533-07:002014-04-11T09:54:28.533-07:00@Colin, uniformity of EEF could be due to endogamy...@Colin, uniformity of EEF could be due to endogamy of farmer "core" that moved around from place to place when local populations became less friendly/cooperative or soil depletion). Esp if farmers had trade networks, they'd just shift to a more favorable node in the network when times got tougher.<br /><br />Endogamous EEF core moves on but leaves behind mixed marginal populations About Timehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09236048173229545609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22165623926793796072014-04-11T02:03:36.380-07:002014-04-11T02:03:36.380-07:00"Collin, you seem to be clutching at straws, ..."Collin, you seem to be clutching at straws, and the same time ignoring some of the really obvious things that are now very difficult to argue against."<br /><br />What are you talking about?<br /><br />You're reading way too much intent.pnuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11902973565704018427noreply@blogger.com