tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3586007695112607475..comments2024-03-29T04:00:27.058-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: New PCA featuring Botai horse tamers, Hun and Saka warriors, and many more...Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18095288623788739942019-04-05T22:27:23.034-07:002019-04-05T22:27:23.034-07:00@All
I updated the above PCA plot and datasheet w...@All<br /><br />I updated the above PCA plot and datasheet with new versions of the same samples. For more details see here...<br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/04/downloadable-genotypes-of-worlds.html" rel="nofollow">Downloadable genotypes of present-day and ancient DNA data</a><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2399102185164003332018-05-18T07:32:06.280-07:002018-05-18T07:32:06.280-07:00Matt
"(too many unknowns!)"
sure - not ...Matt<br />"(too many unknowns!)"<br /><br />sure - not saying this is what actually happened just making an arithmetical point - in theory you could have an equal number of bride exchanges over time across a frontier between group A and group B (for example alliance marriages between the chiefs of two tribes) but *if* the population density of the two groups was different then the Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53773609830985366672018-05-17T12:16:43.697-07:002018-05-17T12:16:43.697-07:00Grey: iirc the other was bride swapping across the...Grey: <i>iirc the other was bride swapping across the farmer/herder border region followed by massive expansion of the new hybrid steppe herder population over the steppe HGs who lived away from the contact zone.<br /><br />(if the density of farmer population was higher then the herder population then an equal number of brides would have a larger percentage impact on the steppe population?)</i><Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80958809493248805912018-05-17T06:00:45.044-07:002018-05-17T06:00:45.044-07:00supernord said...
"There are no traces of hy... supernord said...<br /><br />"There are no traces of hypothetical movement of Proto-Hittites through Caucasus."<br /><br />with all these wetland forager HGs around the Black Sea you'd think they'd maybe have learned to fish and trade a lot - on boats<br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54893346816548872852018-05-17T05:48:18.582-07:002018-05-17T05:48:18.582-07:00Matt
"However, kind of rejects the idea that...Matt<br /><br />"However, kind of rejects the idea that there were ever groups of Caucasus derived ancestry moving about in the steppe who were absorbed by EHG groups (which was another idea I recall being raised by David and others)."<br /><br />yeah - farmers moving onto the steppe, catalyzing a herder culture in the region bordering the crop farming limit, and then eventually gettingGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53396312868990927662018-05-17T05:34:13.247-07:002018-05-17T05:34:13.247-07:00"“This implies an overlap of symbols with a c..."“This implies an overlap of symbols with a communication and interaction<br />626 network that formed during the late 4th millennium BCE and operated across the<br />627 Black Sea area involving the Caucasus59, and later also involved early Globular<br />Amphora groups in the Carpathians and east/central Europe"<br /><br />sounds a bit like a collection of peoples connected across the Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17780677738634090562018-05-17T03:33:41.068-07:002018-05-17T03:33:41.068-07:00thorin23 said...
" @supernord
Just say...thorin23 said...<br />" @supernord<br /> Just saying its impossible doesn't actually make it come true."<br />No, it is actually true.<br /><br />" Its a real possibility (and acknowledged as such in this paper).... My guess is that when we get more data in the future, we'll find that the two groups that make up the IVC (Iran farmer and South Asian HG) "<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64626513518688869662018-05-16T22:48:10.497-07:002018-05-16T22:48:10.497-07:00@Open Genomes Thanks for sharing the subclades
@Open Genomes Thanks for sharing the subclades<br />Archaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17460788307476917782018-05-16T22:46:40.351-07:002018-05-16T22:46:40.351-07:00@Gill @Roy King
According to Roy King, Ward's...@Gill @Roy King<br /><br />According to Roy King, Ward's algorithm is better for this data because the data is already refined, not raw data. This is actually a second-order analysis, the raw SNPs going into Global 25 <br />He says that a neighbor-joining tree will separate out outliers which doesn't need to be done here. <br /><br />Roy King needs to explain this in a more technical way.Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61528773272323293182018-05-16T20:58:46.561-07:002018-05-16T20:58:46.561-07:00@ Open Genomes
Would neighbor joining method be b...@ Open Genomes<br /><br />Would neighbor joining method be better than clustering with Ward's?Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11148963981733232245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1574805165778776632018-05-16T19:43:11.778-07:002018-05-16T19:43:11.778-07:00@OpenGenomes
"About your map:
There's no...@OpenGenomes<br />"About your map:<br /><br />There's no evidence from this study or any genetic evidence at all that Proto-Uralic has anything to do with Sumerian.<br /><br />It's much more likely that Sumerian is somewhat similar to Late Chalcolithic Seh Gabi, because these have some Near Eastern admixture and also there's a Sumerian layer at Seh Gabi dating to about 3200 BCE. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16602735579785334344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84728320074332103712018-05-16T18:20:05.742-07:002018-05-16T18:20:05.742-07:00@Karl_K,
"My guess is that there was probably...@Karl_K,<br />"My guess is that there was probably some kind of magic CHG sanctuary, of only females, along a line exactly between the Steppe and Caucasus. It fits what we know from the data."<br /><br />The Amazons!!Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26441905113846685732018-05-16T17:56:03.922-07:002018-05-16T17:56:03.922-07:00@ Mr. Kulkarni
L-M27, which is modal in South As...@ Mr. Kulkarni <br /><br />L-M27, which is modal in South Asia (in particular the Indus River region) seems to originate in Northern Anatolia and the Chalcolithic Fertile Crescent. <br /><br /><a href="https://yfull.com/tree/L-M22/" rel="nofollow">YFull L-M22 tree including L-M27</a><br /><br />As you know, two previous Maykop individuals were in L-M27. What's interesting is that there are noOpen Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18999789821665457022018-05-16T17:53:24.296-07:002018-05-16T17:53:24.296-07:00@Rob
It's that "Siberian_HG" ancest...@Rob<br /><br />It's that "Siberian_HG" ancestry.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28821881198842056852018-05-16T17:41:37.813-07:002018-05-16T17:41:37.813-07:00@supernord
Just saying its impossible doesn't...@supernord<br /><br />Just saying its impossible doesn't actually make it come true. <br /><br />Its a real possibility (and acknowledged as such in this paper) that PIE could have gone to IVC through a southern route. Even though it seems like they still prefer the steppe route, they have finally acknowledged the possibility of the southern route towards the IVC for the first time. My ownAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71000954916484933202018-05-16T17:27:02.861-07:002018-05-16T17:27:02.861-07:00What's the deal of extra Karitania affinities ...What's the deal of extra Karitania affinities of steppe Majkop ? also manifest as extra Han related ancestry not explained by EHG, Khvalynsk, etc . Perhaps related to Q1a +/- L1 migrants ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59881507011321952942018-05-16T17:23:21.037-07:002018-05-16T17:23:21.037-07:00@ supernord
You're missing karl's humour. ...@ supernord<br />You're missing karl's humour. It's an acquired taste. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14514886757268529362018-05-16T17:20:24.715-07:002018-05-16T17:20:24.715-07:00There are no traces of hypothetical movement of Pr...<br />There are no traces of hypothetical movement of Proto-Hittites through Caucasus.<br /><br /><br />Karl_K said...<br />"Perhaps PIE was spoken by Iranian Neolithic and Indus Valley people."<br /><br />Impossible.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83387034592908650042018-05-16T17:15:40.433-07:002018-05-16T17:15:40.433-07:00@ Matt
"@Rob, flow from Steppe_Maykop_outlie...@ Matt<br /><br />"@Rob, flow from Steppe_Maykop_outlier into Steppe_Maykop looks no problem, but Yamnaya_Samara have a distinct position in this PCA and ADMIXTURE (and Yamnaya Samara from Yamnaya Caucasus). As do Samara_Eneolithic against samples labeled Eneolithic_Steppe. Not clear if Yamnaya_Samara from Samara_Eneolithic+X (European EEF? GAC_Ukraine?) without need for any contribution Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68174007141995721462018-05-16T17:05:00.796-07:002018-05-16T17:05:00.796-07:00@Azra
Yes! I hadn't thought of that.
Perhaps...@Azra<br /><br />Yes! I hadn't thought of that.<br /><br />Perhaps PIE was spoken by Iranian Neolithic and Indus Valley people.<br /><br />Interesting...Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37357179747360853002018-05-16T17:02:19.920-07:002018-05-16T17:02:19.920-07:00@ Karl_K
My guess is that there was probably some ...@ Karl_K<br /><i>My guess is that there was probably some kind of magic CHG sanctuary, of only females</i><br /><br />2 x Y-DNA J in EHG.<br /><br />Also check the model in Narasimhan et al. 2018 Fig. 2B where Steppe EMBA gets additional shot of "Iranian farmer related" ancestry over Khvalynsk_EN (and <i>de facto</i> over Steppe MLBA if you'll look closely). Homogenisation of mtDNA Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70500969075803334062018-05-16T17:01:23.904-07:002018-05-16T17:01:23.904-07:00Well, it's just a shame that languages absolut...Well, it's just a shame that languages absolutely require the correct DNA to understand them. But, that's just how it is.<br /><br />The Hittites didn't know this, though, because they missed the memo about it.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34353163503498038412018-05-16T16:58:51.652-07:002018-05-16T16:58:51.652-07:00We all detected the AnatoliaNeo stuff in Yamnaya y...We all detected the AnatoliaNeo stuff in Yamnaya years ago. If PIE lacked EHG, then were they pure CHG? That seems strange. What do the supposed Hittite and Yamnaya genomes share? A slither of CHG?Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83848250211838369802018-05-16T16:56:48.359-07:002018-05-16T16:56:48.359-07:00@ Karl
"The biggest issue is that their cust...@ Karl<br /><br />"The biggest issue is that their custom was to have an air burial followed by cremation."<br /><br />Ah. Just like the Hittites- the <i>real</i> ones, not those damned Hurrians.<br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83328578997821876762018-05-16T16:55:12.692-07:002018-05-16T16:55:12.692-07:00@Rob
It's just a sampling issue. They'll ...@Rob<br /><br />It's just a sampling issue. They'll find it soon, I'm sure. The biggest issue is that their custom was to have an air burial followed by cremation.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.com