tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3652149337529634033..comments2024-03-28T15:13:25.036-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Ust'-Ishim belongs to K-M526Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger207125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5820435999800509652018-11-12T22:55:53.779-08:002018-11-12T22:55:53.779-08:00"Chad Rohlfsen said...
Sweet! Maybe this..."Chad Rohlfsen said...<br /><br /> Sweet! Maybe this throws out the K2b developing in SE Asia, mess. He could likely be an ancestor to all of us with R and Q. Any chance someone on here wants to look for anything K2b and under?"<br /><br />@Chad Rohlfsen<br />I can look:<br />First of all K2b1 are S and M - Papuans and Melanesians.<br />As for K2b2 - P* is present in Philippines and gLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205206035131781431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30369349113711695962014-11-06T15:23:36.535-08:002014-11-06T15:23:36.535-08:00If you look at the Supplementary Material, f3 and ...If you look at the Supplementary Material, f3 and D-statistics, direct measures of closeness, these show K14 is closer to Lithuanians than any other population. Pathans and Kalash have similar relatedness to K14 as Iranians, Druze and Samaritans (i.e. Middle Eastern populations without African admixture).<br /><br />But K14 is just not very close to Lithuanians. Or anyone. Hence it falls close toMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20089021121153357472014-11-06T15:02:32.131-08:002014-11-06T15:02:32.131-08:00An exciting paper:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cont...An exciting paper:<br /><br />http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/11/05/science.aaa0114<br /><br />This is an exceedingly interesting sample. It's South Asian affinity is even stronger than MA1's shift towards that region (and MA1 is very "South Asian-ish" on most analyses, as well as "Native American-like"). After Northern Europeans, K14 seems to be closest Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41230010978776119372014-11-02T09:10:06.822-08:002014-11-02T09:10:06.822-08:00Other factors to consider
1) if you have three re...Other factors to consider<br /><br />1) if you have three relatively close clusters, for instance, which represent West Eurasian ancestry, Ust-Ishim's affinity to them will be more split between them, while if the same components analysis has only one East Eurasian affinity, he will have more membership in that one than any one of the three West Eurasian components, but not much than all Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61906296050172222952014-11-02T02:54:35.890-08:002014-11-02T02:54:35.890-08:00Ust-Ishim is equidistant from WHG and ENA, but not...Ust-Ishim is equidistant from WHG and ENA, but not from European-specific ADMIXTURE clusters and East Asian-specific clusters, because the European clusters all carry Basal Eurasian influence.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34535867756567050342014-11-02T02:37:19.743-08:002014-11-02T02:37:19.743-08:00Genetiker has put up a page of Ust-Ishim. Very lit...Genetiker has put up a page of Ust-Ishim. Very little Euro, even North-East Euro. I don't understand how it can be equidistant to WHG and ENA as it does show far more ENA affiliation than Euro. It does have quite a lot of Veddic/South Asian which shows up as euro in globe4, if I understand correctly.<br /><br />http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/analyses-of-the-ust-ishim-genome/ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30510978026783562762014-11-01T17:05:20.940-07:002014-11-01T17:05:20.940-07:00"how do you reconcile denisova being in ENA o..."how do you reconcile denisova being in ENA on either side of the Brahmaputra, while ANE-WHG West of North India has no Denisova, while the earliest pops deriving from this root that we have unearthed also have no Denisova?" <br /><br />The Denisova seems to be concentrated now across Wallace's Line but obviously did not originate there. It must have been carried by the early terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56829777030582425172014-11-01T10:31:04.064-07:002014-11-01T10:31:04.064-07:00"Much of India had a savannah-like environmen..."Much of India had a savannah-like environment which resembled Africa"<br /><br />Man o Man. Please people look at the definition of Savannah. Don't make theories to support your ethnic agendas.Nathan Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18392998104066477963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51442586557394352202014-10-31T22:00:44.634-07:002014-10-31T22:00:44.634-07:00A last piece off evidence, from kunstamera.ru post...A last piece off evidence, from kunstamera.ru posted by parasar:<br /><br />"...Certain cranial features, including very narrow braincase, low and narrow face, marked prognathism (anterior protrusion of the midface), and very wide nose, are typical of tropical populations. The trait combination links the cranium with those of Papuans and Melanesians.<br /><br />Certain other Upper Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57602139917440287632014-10-31T21:00:01.448-07:002014-10-31T21:00:01.448-07:00@Terryt
I used to think that too. But the biggest ...@Terryt<br />I used to think that too. But the biggest problem for this theory is this: how do you reconcile denisova being in ENA on either side of the Brahmaputra, while ANE-WHG West of North India has no Denisova, while the earliest pops deriving from this root that we have unearthed also have no Denisova?Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63033710167020474082014-10-31T19:51:16.882-07:002014-10-31T19:51:16.882-07:00"Thanks for all the great info!"
As u..."Thanks for all the great info!" <br /><br />As usual Ebizur has come up with the goods. <br /><br />"an early (100 kya) southern dispersal might well have occurred , but this might have stopped at India for quite some time ... As R.K. Agreed above, Much of India had a savannah-like environment which resembled Africa , which contrasts with the tropical ranforests which dominate terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80680315840449282912014-10-31T09:59:31.384-07:002014-10-31T09:59:31.384-07:00http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/We...http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/2014_Fu_Nature_UstIshim.pdf<br /><br />is the fulltext of the articleAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041180256724372370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34229300665767070362014-10-31T09:46:51.249-07:002014-10-31T09:46:51.249-07:00I was wrong about it proving that the Earliest Eas...I was wrong about it proving that the Earliest East Asians have K as it was really rather far from the East Asia population center. If you look at this map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Irtyshrivermap.jpg it is clear that Ust-Ishim comes from a population associated with the western side of the Irtysh river. If Ust-Ishim was only 500 years about K2 was born, he probably Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04041180256724372370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5712634817060493942014-10-31T08:31:38.951-07:002014-10-31T08:31:38.951-07:00I should add that the phylogenetic position of the...I should add that the phylogenetic position of the following types of K-M9 Y-DNA vis-à-vis the Ust-Ishim specimen's Y-DNA (and probably also vis-à-vis X-F650/pre-NO, though I do not have access to the full paper by Karafet et al. 2014) is unclear at present:<br /><br />K2c-P261<br />15/641 = 2.3% Bali<br /><br />K2d-P402/P403<br />2/61 = 3.3% Java<br /><br />K2*-M526(xNO-M214, K2b-P331, Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68698824403044629262014-10-31T06:22:04.097-07:002014-10-31T06:22:04.097-07:00As we are all clearly keeping an open mind , human...As we are all clearly keeping an open mind , humans might have been in SEA for , say 80K, not a mere 40K. But the evidence is lacking . <br />I hope more , clear and unbiased evidence comes forth . <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89885444464473203822014-10-31T05:53:09.356-07:002014-10-31T05:53:09.356-07:00@ MT
A 'champagne liberal' would end up gi...@ MT<br />A 'champagne liberal' would end up giving him too much credit. <br />Nothing against Koreans, but Hector is a Korean ultranationalist, which is much worse. No need for noble motives here.<br /><br />Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40143308497090649992014-10-31T05:47:11.118-07:002014-10-31T05:47:11.118-07:00Oh, @ Hector
What is 'banal and boring' is...Oh, @ Hector<br />What is 'banal and boring' is your 'champagne liberal' unwarranted, self-righteous huffing and puffing ad hominens on well-meaning contributors who clearly have absolutely no racial agenda, as anyone reading here the comments can see. <br /><br />Put that on your tofu burger....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6147787635242475072014-10-31T05:46:33.571-07:002014-10-31T05:46:33.571-07:00@ MT
Thanks for the info. I have been a regular re...@ MT<br />Thanks for the info. I have been a regular reader of John hawks, but must have missed that one.<br /><br />It pains me to say this, but I have always been somewhat dubious of Chinese paleoanth, esp when comes to 'ancestors' of any kind. <br /><br />Many ppl I have met in China still do not accept OOA. Oh well :)<br /><br />@ MT @ Ebizur<br />I suppose this is adds to the center Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35598373009434300082014-10-31T05:34:35.420-07:002014-10-31T05:34:35.420-07:00Ah got it; from
http://www.palaeodeserts.com/wp-c...Ah got it; from <br />http://www.palaeodeserts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Human-dispersal-PDF.pdf<br /><br />Pg 11:<br />"India is dominated by savannah and Sahel type vegetation,<br />as well as vegetation zones whose differences from these are not<br />radical, and similar food resources are attested to by disjunct taxa.<br />The region just east of India, however, features Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2230277054686776332014-10-31T05:31:28.187-07:002014-10-31T05:31:28.187-07:00@Ruki -
W.r.t the 100 kya fossil frrom China - t...@Ruki - <br /><br />W.r.t the 100 kya fossil frrom China - the evidence is debatable. Firstly it comes from just a mandible, and the basis on which some scientists argued that it is AMH is that it has a proment mental symphysis (ie a chine) something which archaics apparently lacked. However, this is not entirely true, and some latter arhcaic hominids eg neanderthals did start developing 'Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75672010295407442692014-10-31T05:03:13.996-07:002014-10-31T05:03:13.996-07:00By this method of calibration, TMRCA {N-M231 + O-M...By this method of calibration, TMRCA {N-M231 + O-M175} should be approx. 41,400 YBP and TMRCA {Q-M242 + R-M207} should be approx. 33,250 YBP.Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83434842381600527742014-10-31T04:56:09.151-07:002014-10-31T04:56:09.151-07:00@ Ebizur
Thanks for all the great info!
So it does...@ Ebizur<br />Thanks for all the great info!<br />So it does seem that Usty was extremely basal in K, and extremely basal in WHG-ANE-ENA. This solidifies my conviction that the "direct patrilineal ancestor of nearly half of extant humans", aka Y-hap K, diversified in the Crown Eurasian root pop in that timeframe you suggested.<br /><br />So now we have a very basal sample in ancient Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15028894686926278532014-10-31T04:20:40.831-07:002014-10-31T04:20:40.831-07:00BTW, the MRCA of all NO-M214 is about 55 SNPs down...BTW, the MRCA of all NO-M214 is about 55 SNPs downstream of K2-M526, with about seven of those 55 SNPs being shared with the "X" group and about two (or possibly up to two more that have not been recovered or have not been genotyped, for a maximum of four) of those 55 SNPs being shared among the "X" group, NO, and Usty.<br /><br />Usty is about 8 SNPs downstream of K2-M526, Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47114620486960299642014-10-31T02:56:32.522-07:002014-10-31T02:56:32.522-07:00r.k. wrote,
"E* is found in some Lebanese an...r.k. wrote,<br /><br />"E* is found in some Lebanese and Syrian samples if I rmb correctly, while E* in Africa has turned out to be spurious. E prob has an Asian origin IMO. Also, in pca many Africans, even Yoruba, are pulled strongly to Eurasians; but Middle Easterners are pulled weakly towards Africans, which is exactly the behaviour that ANE exerts on Europeans and Asians: Siberians+Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30410872297490430102014-10-31T01:51:37.774-07:002014-10-31T01:51:37.774-07:00If a pause occurred in India than the Brahmaputra ...If a pause occurred in India than the Brahmaputra river would be a possible dividing point for the population. Across the river and down the coast you are in tropical SEA. Another group that lived closer to the base of the Himalaya could have headed North through the valleys that lead to the Tibetan plateau.Strandloperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09223332942494057223noreply@blogger.com