tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post38045252704761578..comments2024-03-19T04:18:48.805-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: What happened to Maykop?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57556603009910020332018-11-23T08:05:42.786-08:002018-11-23T08:05:42.786-08:00Looking at MtDNA Haplogroup U5a1b it doesn't s...Looking at MtDNA Haplogroup U5a1b it doesn't seem to have travelled along the Danube but rather a more Northern route...unless I missed something...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58851439499748267492018-11-20T07:40:10.296-08:002018-11-20T07:40:10.296-08:00Link to relevant L23 distributions http://r1b-pf75...Link to relevant L23 distributions http://r1b-pf7562.blogspot.com/2017/02/r1b-pf7562.html?m=1Ditahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423671261788154978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28755876512084835042018-11-20T07:39:06.734-08:002018-11-20T07:39:06.734-08:00Given the mention of bell beakers being dinaric, b...Given the mention of bell beakers being dinaric, balkan origins of m269, L23, Z2103, the vinca culture etc. What can we say about Albanians / Proto-Albanian part in this? They are the dinarics par excellence are they not? In the balkans, they have the highest R1b-Pf7562 (very rare), R1b-m269(xl51), and among the highest Z2103 also. The distributions because of this diversity cannot reasonably be Ditahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423671261788154978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19452700622009706522018-11-19T23:54:37.891-08:002018-11-19T23:54:37.891-08:00@An Idiot
Yeah, you sort of sound like Olympus Mo...@An Idiot<br /><br />Yeah, you sort of sound like Olympus Mons before he went all bitter and twisted because his theories weren't really working out.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49464536079794827552018-11-19T22:39:16.632-08:002018-11-19T22:39:16.632-08:00@Chad,
But what's most important is Steppe En...@Chad,<br /><br />But what's most important is Steppe Eneolithic, Ukraine Eneolithic, Yamnaya, Corded Ware, and (North) Bell Beaker are all descendants from the same ancestor population. The needy gritty details matter a lot but we can't forget they're all apart of the same phenomenon. <br /><br />Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3095933339404802702018-11-19T22:34:44.322-08:002018-11-19T22:34:44.322-08:00@Chad
Would adding extra WHG make better fits for...@Chad<br /><br />Would adding extra WHG make better fits for the Beakers. We know that during the entire pre-Beaker Neolithic almost pure WHG samples are found.epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75535172559367539612018-11-19T22:21:17.066-08:002018-11-19T22:21:17.066-08:00@Davidski How have I not been reasonable? Do I not...@Davidski How have I not been reasonable? Do I not sound like a logical person to you, or do I just sound like a frothing Olympus Mons? If I have questions you can't answer, that doesn't mean you can ban me - besides, we more than likely agree on most things. We just happen to disagree on matters related to R1b L23.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38443552429234663682018-11-19T22:13:47.695-08:002018-11-19T22:13:47.695-08:00@An Idiot
Your theories are sort of bordering on ...@An Idiot<br /><br />Your theories are sort of bordering on fantasy.<br /><br />I don't really want the comments at my blog to be filled with this sort of stuff. You have to be more realistic and in tune with the data if you want to continue posting here.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43358348547786630572018-11-19T21:37:31.270-08:002018-11-19T21:37:31.270-08:00@Chad Rohlfsen Yes, I agree with Corded Ware being...@Chad Rohlfsen Yes, I agree with Corded Ware being related to SS rather than Yamnaya - it makes more sense in terms of the difference in haplogroups (R1a vs R1b) too, but also physical anthropology etc. I think the formation of the Yamnaya culture displaced the precursors of the CWC to move West across the N Euro plain into Europe, mixing with the natives on the way. <br /><br />Somewhat Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64049913617875495362018-11-19T21:33:39.936-08:002018-11-19T21:33:39.936-08:00Gotta crash for now. I can pick this up tomorrow. ...Gotta crash for now. I can pick this up tomorrow. Just take a look at his work. I think it has some good value. There's others too that aren't popping into mind at this late hour.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26985125424430035892018-11-19T21:32:27.716-08:002018-11-19T21:32:27.716-08:00Read Rassamakin on the complex interaction between...Read Rassamakin on the complex interaction between the Caucasus, Balkans, and Ukraine. I think this makes more sense than some Samara>Western Europe. There's really nothing Yamnaya or GAC about Bell Beaker. Corded is nothing like Yamnaya either.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29081398750216986242018-11-19T21:29:51.088-08:002018-11-19T21:29:51.088-08:00Not two different pops. Both Corded groups are roo...Not two different pops. Both Corded groups are rooted in Ukraine Eneolithic and mixed with two completely different pops. Not the same thing. The writing is on the wall already. R1a M417 is in Stog, but not Yamnaya or Afanasievo. L51 is not in Afanasievo or Yamnaya. They likely never were with how things look. There's just too much EHG to CHG too. It's all lining up this way. It's Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47672502039009106632018-11-19T21:17:22.883-08:002018-11-19T21:17:22.883-08:00@Chad
Corded Ware didn't derive from two diff...@Chad<br /><br />Corded Ware didn't derive from two different populations.<br /><br />The substructure in Corded Ware was driven by increasing east to west female-biased admixture from European farmers.<br /><br />This was covered in a recent paper...<br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/08/a-closer-look-at-maternal-origins-of.html" rel="nofollow">A closer look at the Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64892452981605452622018-11-19T21:13:28.471-08:002018-11-19T21:13:28.471-08:00@ David,
My work-around is EHG and CHG. It is pre...@ David,<br /><br />My work-around is EHG and CHG. It is pretty stable with a basic 55:45 split. They need extra Anatolian and WHG. Ukraine Eneolithic may be the winner, but I am guessing like anyone else until the samples are out.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83409339838993699382018-11-19T21:12:18.293-08:002018-11-19T21:12:18.293-08:00With Corded Ware, there are two populations it see...With Corded Ware, there are two populations it seems. One that may actually have Yamnaya admixture, and another that does not. <br /><br />First, is the German Corded Ware..<br /><br />They had too much EHG to CHG to be from Yamnaya, but some input from Khvalynsk does work well..No Steppe EMBA though..<br /><br />left pops:<br />Corded_Ware<br />Eneolithic_Ukraine<br />EHG<br />CHG<br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54844872873682629882018-11-19T21:08:05.273-08:002018-11-19T21:08:05.273-08:00Here are much better fits with the Central Europea...Here are much better fits with the Central European BB samples.<br /><br />In this one, we see that Steppe EMBA, or Yamnaya admixture is as good as none. This is a common theme with BB models. Anything with Yamnaya as the sole source is a terrible fit. Ukraine Eneolithic is the way to go. <br /><br />left pops:<br />C_Beaker<br />Balkan_ChL<br />Eneolithic_Ukraine<br />Steppe_EMBA<br /><br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7484857148637162092018-11-19T21:04:33.767-08:002018-11-19T21:04:33.767-08:00@Chad
You're missing the Eneolithic steppe sa...@Chad<br /><br />You're missing the Eneolithic steppe samples from Wang et al.<br /><br />But there's a way around that problem. I'll be posting about this later.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52752051642716361642018-11-19T21:04:32.476-08:002018-11-19T21:04:32.476-08:00Looking at Yamnaya, we can see the pop that resemb...Looking at Yamnaya, we can see the pop that resembles that Caucasus steppe pop..<br />In other runs than the Trypillian one, which I think could end up being the real deal, Ukraine Eneolithic is more important, with a later pulse from Maykop or Meshoko-related group(s). <br /><br />left pops:<br />Steppe_EMBA<br />Eneolithic_Ukraine<br />EHG<br />CHG<br />Armenia_ChL<br /><br />right pops:<br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75673284725780286202018-11-19T20:57:47.686-08:002018-11-19T20:57:47.686-08:00Hello everyone,
I have a few things to go over he...Hello everyone,<br /><br />I have a few things to go over here. Just some possibilities and models that work. I think that there is a good chance that things are more complicated than just straight Yamnaya+ whatever flavor of MN European you like. I think that there is a decent chance that things are going to end up closer to Rassamakin than we currently suspect. Once these samples are available,Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51662178897790057872018-11-19T19:05:20.840-08:002018-11-19T19:05:20.840-08:00I explore the question of why this post and relate...I explore the question of why this post and related issues matter in a blog post directed at a less knowledgable audience at https://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2018/11/why-is-knowing-about-maykop-culture-and.htmlandrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19414734862760070992018-11-19T17:11:55.656-08:002018-11-19T17:11:55.656-08:00@JuanRivera interesting - I knew about Suvorovo an...@JuanRivera interesting - I knew about Suvorovo and Varna but that's about it. Kumtepe is very interesting.<br /><br />Where's the source for Kumptepe being Steppe admixed? And what date? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-970737522532621402018-11-19T16:24:13.388-08:002018-11-19T16:24:13.388-08:00@An Idiot
Yamnaya mtDNA haplogroups more or less ...@An Idiot<br /><br />Yamnaya mtDNA haplogroups more or less match its genome-wide ancestry: EHG, CHG, and WHG-rich EEF.<br /><br />So there's no point forcing Near Eastern ancestry into the equation.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75801133741673872402018-11-19T16:18:19.798-08:002018-11-19T16:18:19.798-08:00@Davidski True, but you just have to assume (witho...@Davidski True, but you just have to assume (without further evidence) that a lineage hasn't been helped or hindered by things like founder effects. There's no reason to assume either way given a potential founder effect, and there's no reason to even assume a founder effect in the first place. You can't just say "founder effect" to explain why uniparental markers don&#Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90357116174346461172018-11-19T16:10:46.112-08:002018-11-19T16:10:46.112-08:00@JuanRivera I'm not necessarily claiming that ...@JuanRivera I'm not necessarily claiming that Ukrainian Yamnaya outlier did carry IE to the Steppe.<br /><br />Also, do you have more information about this Balkan->Anatolia trail? Given the age of Anatolian, it would have to have been from before Yamnaya.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91117699876848045352018-11-19T16:07:47.507-08:002018-11-19T16:07:47.507-08:00@An Idiot
None of that addresses the point that Y...@An Idiot<br /><br /><i>None of that addresses the point that Yamnaya EEF mtDNA must exceed Yamnaya EEF auDNA as a percentage if your model is correct.</i><br /><br />No it doesn't have to.<br /><br />Uniparental marker frequencies are easily skewed by founder effects and drift, especially in populations with few founders and small effective population sizes. So there's often no linear Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com