tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3841952364254560174..comments2024-03-28T23:21:04.175-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: More on the association between Uralic expansions and Y-haplogroup NDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63449423829862751842019-05-28T13:01:55.904-07:002019-05-28T13:01:55.904-07:00It seems that not all English BBs are Dutch, there...It seems that not all English BBs are Dutch, there are also AfricansGaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37598832917722763102019-05-28T12:12:17.499-07:002019-05-28T12:12:17.499-07:00Anyone have access to this?
Archaeogentics and Pa...Anyone have access to this?<br /><br />Archaeogentics and Palaeogenetics of the British Isles<br />Katharina Dulias, 2019<br /><br />http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/34890/bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3969455701873369862019-05-28T02:51:47.653-07:002019-05-28T02:51:47.653-07:00There are already first conclusions from the resea...There are already first conclusions from the research of the team from the Biobank Laboratory and the Chair of Anthropology. The researchers suppose that in the case of the population living in Kujawy there was a surprisingly strong genetic continuity, dating back to the time of the first farmers from before 7.5 thousand years.<br /><br />"It seems that we are dealing with an interesting ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53982265649184089122019-05-27T23:09:22.707-07:002019-05-27T23:09:22.707-07:00It's definitely outdated, because they're ...It's definitely outdated, because they're talking about that Bryan Sykes book, but the real problem is that Y-DNA from attested Tocharians hasn't been published yet. This business of trying to infer Tocharian Y-DNA by looking at Uyghurs was always kind of goofy. <br /><br />To date, there is no Tocharian Y-DNA for us to talk about, although hopefully that's going to change soon. Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6945140804900360812019-05-27T22:57:51.583-07:002019-05-27T22:57:51.583-07:00@Bob Floy Maybe my source is outdated: https://fam...@Bob Floy Maybe my source is outdated: https://familypedia.wikia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b<br /><br />"There also exists a haplotype of R1b with the DYS393=12 which is known in the literature as Haplotype 35, or ht35, as opposed to the AMH which is known as haplotype 15. They can be found in high numbers in Southeastern Europe and Western Asia. The members of this haplotype are thought to be Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40422549894310668192019-05-27T21:54:54.263-07:002019-05-27T21:54:54.263-07:00Yeah, I know.
I'm hoping he'll answer, may...Yeah, I know.<br />I'm hoping he'll answer, maybe he knows something groundbreaking that we all missed.Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6315748042793241782019-05-27T21:25:54.120-07:002019-05-27T21:25:54.120-07:00@Bob Floy
Again, like I said on the previous thre...@Bob Floy<br /><br />Again, like I said on the previous thread, Andrzejewski probably heard all the fuss about “Central Asian Celts” and concluded that Tocharians were R1b.<br /><br />By the way, wouldn’t Volga Tatars be more Finnic-derived than, say, Sintashta-derived?Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718136580023709390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38168676514159380722019-05-27T21:02:20.692-07:002019-05-27T21:02:20.692-07:00@Andrzejewski
The other day, you made a comment a...@Andrzejewski<br /><br />The other day, you made a comment about attested Tocharian speakers carrying R1b. Could you elaborate on that?Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28648571891156626912019-05-27T20:12:57.961-07:002019-05-27T20:12:57.961-07:00BTW, this man is Rinat Akhmetov, a Ukrainian of Vo...BTW, this man is Rinat Akhmetov, a Ukrainian of Volga Tatar descent:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetov#/media/File:Akhmetov_Rinat_Leonidovich.jpg<br /><br />He looks almost indistinguishable from any other Ukrainian or Russian. <br /><br />Volga Tatars must have had lots of Scythian and Sintashta blood, in addition to some recent Eastern Slav one as well.Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87455281922896946022019-05-27T15:10:25.121-07:002019-05-27T15:10:25.121-07:00@EastPole
So in case of our example from Europe t...@EastPole<br /><br /><i>So in case of our example from Europe the possible explanation would be that populations grouped together with Slavs on phylogenetic tree are derived from Balto-Slavic Corded Ware and experienced language shift in history. Any other explanations?</i><br /><br />Not just Corded Ware but all sorts of populations native to Northern and Eastern Europe, including Corded Ware, Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7261678781605639262019-05-27T14:57:25.120-07:002019-05-27T14:57:25.120-07:00It is OT. There is a new paper on Africa by Reich ...It is OT. There is a new paper on Africa by Reich et al.:<br /><br />https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-019-1679-2<br /><br />Fig. 2 shows phylogenetic relationship of 44 African and 32 west Eurasian populations:<br /><br />It interesting that Finno-Ugric Estonians, Finns and Hungarians, Germanic English, Islandic and Orcadian group together with Slavic Russians, EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12980390577861097022019-05-27T10:47:12.880-07:002019-05-27T10:47:12.880-07:00@M
"Look at the picture d) - N3a4 subclades ...@M<br /><br />"Look at the picture d) - N3a4 subclades defined by B535 and B539. It is a very interesting that high geographic frequency is in todays Drava river / Pecs region and Burgenland / Carinthia, very low in Central Hungary and again rising on the border of HU / Romania and very high in Szekely region (Transylvania). Why it is so? especially westernmost distribution of N3a4 clades Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44542942626900218792019-05-27T10:18:34.216-07:002019-05-27T10:18:34.216-07:00@M
OK, I accept the correction. The Northern mini...@M<br /><br />OK, I accept the correction. The Northern mining region's cities also had significant German influence and population early on, not only the similar region in Transylvania. However that is still does not justify Olga's generalization. Especially that some of those cities are in regions were the base population was not Hungarian speaking to begin with.<br /><br />@Olga<br /><Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22860665957774598082019-05-27T06:43:25.420-07:002019-05-27T06:43:25.420-07:00Yes, of course. And it may be that the "Conqu...Yes, of course. And it may be that the "Conqueror" Magyars were outnumbered by German and Slav neighbors OVER TIME, and not by some presumed Avar/Slav/Hunnic/Pannonian substrate population. 50% of the lexicon of the Hungarian language is IE (latin, Slav, German, Greek), 12% Turkic and only 21% Uralic, but 31% of the vocabulary is of UNCERTAIN derivation. Could be it Yeniseian as a Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57326474400998046692019-05-27T06:29:37.620-07:002019-05-27T06:29:37.620-07:00Please, I don´t claim anything and of course, hung...Please, I don´t claim anything and of course, hungarian have many theories about their origin, true or myth. Most of them were inspire by politics, according to whom was ruling the country or by social class.<br />My hungarian friends and family by marriage usually fought in 3 or 4 languages. They mostly used magyar and german to do it. <br />Here we are trying to disentangle this very olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15329956983115577489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18630161074477061312019-05-26T21:13:13.426-07:002019-05-26T21:13:13.426-07:00My mistake: judging by arithmetics, IE languages c...My mistake: judging by arithmetics, IE languages contributed at least 50/100 to Hungarian, and not as previously stated.Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8420323187776439492019-05-26T21:11:05.387-07:002019-05-26T21:11:05.387-07:00https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language#V...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language#Vocabulary<br /><br />Origin of word roots in modern Hungarian[49]<br />Uncertain <br /> <br />30%<br />Uralic <br /> <br />21%<br />Slavic <br /> <br />20%<br />German <br /> <br />11%<br />Turkic <br /> <br />9.5%<br />Latin and Greek <br /> <br />6%<br />Romance <br /> <br />2.5%<br />Other known <br /> <br />1%<br /><br />Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43912996571017327052019-05-26T20:54:43.962-07:002019-05-26T20:54:43.962-07:00There is something that both Olga and Ebizur touch...There is something that both Olga and Ebizur touched upon, which I'd like to expand further: The invading Magyars were 7 Ugric tribes with 3 Khazar tribes (="Kabar") joining them following a rebellion on the Khazar Khaganate. There were elite burial tombs with Star of David sign on them, attributed to the conversion to Judaism of the Khazarian elite. Would these 3 Kabar tribes the Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10416298526356310412019-05-26T19:10:27.657-07:002019-05-26T19:10:27.657-07:00A/ On Medieval Hungary
@Slumbery
There is absolute...A/ On Medieval Hungary<br />@Slumbery<br />There is absolutely no trace that German was used as a language of business and culture in Medieval Hungary. At any rate, the language of culture was Latin. German was even less used in culture and official texts than Hungarian.<br /><br />This is not true. Upper Hungarian cities (now Slovakia) was clearly based on german laws, german architecture and inMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14576482783980123250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89476439538357213772019-05-26T11:16:17.069-07:002019-05-26T11:16:17.069-07:00@olga
I do not know what you read, but this is th...@olga<br /><br />I do not know what you read, but this is the first time I heard the version were the Ugric people were enslaved for centuries by the Turkic side. I can believe that this story existed, because there are much weirder stories out in the wild, but I am pretty sure it was never a canon or consensus, because if nothing else, I would have been taught so in school. (Instead I was prettySlumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33811558957384980152019-05-26T09:57:31.323-07:002019-05-26T09:57:31.323-07:00According to their own version of the history duri...According to their own version of the history during the 20th century, the hungerian historians I have read, said that Magyars tribes arriving during the 9th century, were a mixed stock between a Turquid horse riding aristocracy that had enslaved pastoral Ugric people for centuries. And this combination gave origin to the Magyar language, where you could see the words related to the conquerers olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15329956983115577489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37367411772723561522019-05-26T03:44:39.307-07:002019-05-26T03:44:39.307-07:00@Shaikoth
This actually touches a topic that led ...@Shaikoth<br /><br />This actually touches a topic that led to somewhat heated debates here in the past. The thing is, modern Khanti and Mansi are small, very drifted populations that cannot be modelled with aDNA references with reasonable fit + they pretty likely received a lot of additional Siberian admixture after the assumed Ugric "union" had dissolved. The latter is especially Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82959743124680524572019-05-26T01:52:44.340-07:002019-05-26T01:52:44.340-07:00@Slumbery, Anthony Hanken
Mezhovskaya might have b...@Slumbery, Anthony Hanken<br />Mezhovskaya might have been a part of proto-Ugrics but with current data too early say if it was a major component, for example the best Global25 fits for modern Ob-Ugrics Khanties involve Sintashta outliers+their neighbours Komi and Evenk (Baikal EBA works to replace Evenk but the fit is worse and Evenk uniparentals fit better too).<br /><br />Speaking of SintashtaShaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32518964250245352112019-05-25T22:43:47.472-07:002019-05-25T22:43:47.472-07:00@ Anthony Hanken
You have some good points, howev...@ Anthony Hanken<br /><br />You have some good points, however there could be still a regional variation of paternal groups within Mezhovskaya. As far as I know RISE523, RISE524, RISE525 are all from the same site. The presence of Baikal autosomal ancestry makes the presence of some connected paternal lineage plausible, without that the Mezhovskaya = Ugric theory would not have a leg to stand on Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47600728227340332322019-05-25T20:53:49.077-07:002019-05-25T20:53:49.077-07:00@ Slumberry
That Khazar period is x. 650 - 850, w...@ Slumberry <br />That Khazar period is x. 650 - 850, when they ruled the steppe lands of Europe. <br />It is said that the Magyars, and 3 rebel Turkic groups (the Kabars) rebelled against the Khazars & fled west. <br />This seems to be a pretty parsiminous spot for Turkic admixture. M.H. _82https://www.blogger.com/profile/04914628294379302353noreply@blogger.com