tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post4602172169737107899..comments2024-03-18T22:01:02.498-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Genetic and archaeological continuity from Khvalynsk to YamnayaDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger206125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34391391903777814642017-08-30T08:10:00.790-07:002017-08-30T08:10:00.790-07:00@ Unknown
Take for example the Nilotes and Cushe...@ Unknown <br /><br />Take for example the Nilotes and Cushetic people compared to Central Africans like Mbuti etc. And also compare Northern Amerindians of the plains with Central and Southern Amerindians living in the jungles. And compare the Nilotes with the Andaman Islanders and Australian Aborigines and Papua New Guineans....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58482876355470331622017-08-30T07:56:58.619-07:002017-08-30T07:56:58.619-07:00@ Unknown
Take for example the Nilotes and Cushe...@ Unknown <br /><br />Take for example the Nilotes and Cushetic people compared to Central Africans like Mbuti etc. And also compare Northern Amerindians of the plains with Central and Southern Amerindians living in the jungles. And compare the Nilotes with the Andaman Islanders etc....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25319676003451602922017-08-30T07:20:39.316-07:002017-08-30T07:20:39.316-07:00@ Unknown
And when looking at Mal'ta Buret w...@ Unknown <br /><br />And when looking at Mal'ta Buret we see that Haplogroup R was already found in the Siberian Steppe from at least 26 000 years ago...So enough time to adapt to the cold....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36383839538817799792017-08-30T07:13:14.099-07:002017-08-30T07:13:14.099-07:00@ Unknown
What is Tropical adapted limbs precise...@ Unknown <br /><br />What is Tropical adapted limbs precisely ? Compare people that lived in a plains environment and those living in Mountains. Plains people tend to be taller on average with a finer bonestructure etc. And bonestructure has got very little to do with peoples immune systems.<br /><br />Like I said it took those Villabruna thousands of years to adapt to to their environment Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58131622039021261032017-08-28T21:27:05.824-07:002017-08-28T21:27:05.824-07:00@ Folker
Oops!@ Folker<br /><br />Oops!P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33769596547953187142017-08-28T17:33:15.003-07:002017-08-28T17:33:15.003-07:00>Northern Males surely were more adapted to the...>Northern Males surely were more adapted to the Northern Climate since they have been living there for thousands of years before Southern Males arrived. <br />Maybe it depended on the lifestyle ? Northern Males surely wound have been outdoors mostly hunting and herding long distances and women were mostly near the Campsites or dwellings. <br />So when Southern Males arrived they had to do the Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35176417416082924132017-08-26T04:12:45.121-07:002017-08-26T04:12:45.121-07:00@ Folker, thanks for that link, though I note they...@ Folker, thanks for that link, though I note they only have 12 samples so potentially more noise than in the 28 listed in Mathieson's supplement? They state "In the 12 successfully haplotyped specimens, 75% of mtDNA lineages consisted of west Eurasian haplogroup U and its U4 and U5 sublineages".<br /> <br />I'm a bit wary about applying a 75% steppe female contribution to an Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67918660706392219612017-08-26T02:58:17.975-07:002017-08-26T02:58:17.975-07:00@P Piranha
No, wrong publication. I was referring ...@P Piranha<br />No, wrong publication. I was referring to "Subdivisions of haplogroup U and C encompass mitochondrial DNA lineages of Eneolithic-Early Bronze Age Kurgan populations of Western North Pontic Steppe" by Nikitin, Ivanova,Kiosak.... published the February 2d 2017. Search Nature or Journal of Human Genetics.Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43123635028865590452017-08-25T19:14:18.111-07:002017-08-25T19:14:18.111-07:00If anyone is wondering which study Volker is talki...If anyone is wondering which study Volker is talking about, its this one:<br /><br /><a href="http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0172952&type=printable" rel="nofollow">Mitochondrial DNA analysis of eneolithic trypillians from Ukraine reveals neolithic farming genetic roots</a><br /><br />Thanks Volker. Interesting grammar in the title.<br /><br /><br />@ P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3405754119179143572017-08-25T06:23:10.414-07:002017-08-25T06:23:10.414-07:00Though nothing special or different was going on w...<i>Though nothing special or different was going on with him autosomally was there?</i><br /><br />He has the highest ANE to WHG ratio amongst all of the Yamnaya sequenced to date.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21790809493720865492017-08-25T06:04:53.289-07:002017-08-25T06:04:53.289-07:00@Davidski: I'll remember that for future refer...@Davidski: I'll remember that for future reference. <br /><br />Davidski: <i>Ulan IV was somewhat different from the rest of the Kalmykia "Yamnayans".</i><br /><br />Possibly from another community than represented by Kalmykia and Samara Yamnaya and Poltavka sites?<br /><br />Found it interesting that he had a "seafood diet":<br /><br /><i>Stable isotope data help to cast Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70806891863525805272017-08-25T04:37:03.063-07:002017-08-25T04:37:03.063-07:00@Matt
Ulan IV is not an exception, because the Bu...@Matt<br /><br />Ulan IV is not an exception, because the Bulgarian Yamnaya has the same lineage, which looks like it came from Ukraine.<br /><br />Indeed, if you look at the map in Fig 1 here, you'll see why Ulan IV was somewhat different from the rest of the Kalmykia "Yamnayans".<br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/publication/Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84869920482358954362017-08-25T03:51:56.484-07:002017-08-25T03:51:56.484-07:00@ P Piranha: Interesting model - are you thinking ...@ P Piranha: Interesting model - are you thinking of the initial male biased EHG->Caucasus expansion as in a Mesolithic timeframe or a more Khvalynsk MCA timeframe?<br /><br />I'm interpreting your idea with the latter as something like: Khvalynsk like groups expand south into the Caucasus, picking up Caucasus (EEF-CHG) ancestry mainly through females, but keeping R1 y-dna from the Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91694070893765265882017-08-25T00:52:19.231-07:002017-08-25T00:52:19.231-07:00@matt
A study bas been published recently (februar...@matt<br />A study bas been published recently (february 2017) by Nikitin et al. JHB 2017 62 (605-613) on mt lineages in western Pontic Steppe, and they concluded to an overall continuity in the Eneolithic/EBA.Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7908678652890783612017-08-24T21:38:37.098-07:002017-08-24T21:38:37.098-07:00Rob is super good with dates. He knows that 4300BC...Rob is super good with dates. He knows that 4300BC came before or after 4000BC.<br /><br />Nice try Davidski.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54157796531456325162017-08-24T17:14:05.894-07:002017-08-24T17:14:05.894-07:00Thanks for the analysis Matt, always appreciate yo...Thanks for the analysis Matt, always appreciate your efforts. I still agree with you that without very intensive sampling this kind of thing is hard to infer. Hopefully the next batch of genomes from the Steppe are shotgun-sequenced so that the sex chromosomes are as well known as the autosomals.<br /><br />I continue to think that two episodes of sex-biased admixture in opposite directions can P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41744948033998743252017-08-24T15:56:27.081-07:002017-08-24T15:56:27.081-07:00@ P_Piranha, in case you're still reading, as ...@ P_Piranha, in case you're still reading, as you mentioned Mathieson 2017, I thought I'd have a go at using the mtdna haplogroups vs the autosome to estimate male / female contribution (which is one of the methods they use): http://imgur.com/a/pv0Fn. <br /><br />In theory mtdna should be more useful than the y, as less suspectible to founder effects (though not immune!) and we have it inMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45406707766153991292017-08-24T01:00:48.922-07:002017-08-24T01:00:48.922-07:00@P Piranha, just as a curiousity, http://imgur.com...@P Piranha, just as a curiousity, http://imgur.com/a/C4GXi. Assuming the admixture ratios that Mathieson et al 2017 found with their 7 population outgroups and a similar ratio of HG:non_HG in Steppe_EMBA, and overall HG of 47% (from above models) then ancestors of Steppe_EMBA would be male HG 73.8% and female HG 20% (and male non-HG 26%, female non-HG 80%).<br /><br />Not impossible by any means,Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31269751019756680292017-08-23T19:02:23.520-07:002017-08-23T19:02:23.520-07:00Inferences based on the X aren't very reliable...Inferences based on the X aren't very reliable yet for most ancient samples because of the lack of data. There are simply not enough markers to say that the Yamnaya X is overwhelmingly southern, even though it does appear that way for now.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64860950684135943142017-08-23T17:51:28.898-07:002017-08-23T17:51:28.898-07:00@ David
Why are you not bringing up your previous...@ David<br /><br />Why are you not bringing up your previous D stat runs with X chromosomes vs Autosomes to substantiate your point about sex-biased admixture? We already see Mathieson et al use this procedure in their supplementary materials.P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66359622356015241772017-08-23T12:26:31.115-07:002017-08-23T12:26:31.115-07:00There are no samples (at least yet) and I will hap...There are no samples (at least yet) and I will happily admit to this. <br /><br />If we ever get samples of like, 20 Samara Eneolithic males, and they show neither a founder effect (the extant ones don't) and not even 10% (2) of any southern lineage, I'll probably rethink in favour of upping the probability of a sex biased migration or geneflow.<br /><br />Same if they managed to get a Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60183328720469907412017-08-23T00:53:30.829-07:002017-08-23T00:53:30.829-07:00@Rob
Estimates of southern ancestry in the Khvlay...@Rob<br /><br />Estimates of southern ancestry in the Khvlaynsk men are here. Nowhere close to 6%.<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/the-khvalynsk-men-2_16.html<br /><br />@Matt<br /><br />You're going to need some positive evidence to back your claim of southern men on the steppe, otherwise it didn't happen.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7248480871022711052017-08-23T00:22:43.829-07:002017-08-23T00:22:43.829-07:00Ulan_IV RISE552 belongs to I2a.
So we have R1a, R...<i>Ulan_IV RISE552 belongs to I2a.<br /><br />So we have R1a, R1b, I2a and Q1a on the post-forager steppe, but no typically southern haplogroups.<br /><br />Rather worrying for any theory that posits a large scale migration of southern males onto the Eneoithic/Bronze Age steppe, don't you think?</i><br /><br />Nah, not really with one sample only, though should be worth them trying to sample Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79197929841962314912017-08-22T22:50:57.194-07:002017-08-22T22:50:57.194-07:00I don't think a "large migration of males...I don't think a "large migration of males" is needed, and it needn't be exclusively "southern", it could be from due east also <br />What happens is a few "outsider" families migrated and became the core of new commuhities, but were in fact a small minority. The Yamnaya period saw heightened competition in which only certain males succuueded per region. <br /Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5687128880551970012017-08-22T22:32:46.122-07:002017-08-22T22:32:46.122-07:004000 BC is a good average of 4300-3800 BC
I bet th...4000 BC is a good average of 4300-3800 BC<br />I bet the one Khvalynsk who packs ChG will come back dating to c. 37/3600 BC<br />And yes, I'd call when an individual only has 6% CHG as "essentially EHG". <br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com