tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post468910042874080684..comments2024-03-19T04:18:48.805-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Mitogenome diversity in SardiniansDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56703250103642319102017-02-18T00:08:52.775-08:002017-02-18T00:08:52.775-08:00Ariel, I said that Anatolia Neolithic is basther b...Ariel, I said that Anatolia Neolithic is basther basically Bedouin+WHG or rather Natufian+WHG as modern Bedouins have CHG, SSA and small ANE admixtures but they are close enough.<br /><br />According to this thread WHG shares surprasingly quite a lot of drift with Natufians, more than with Iran Neolithic.<br /><br />http://www.anthrogenica.com/archive/index.php/t-8262.htmlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86053433224431162072017-02-17T13:34:53.852-08:002017-02-17T13:34:53.852-08:00Yes, I think that the middle eastern mesolithic is...Yes, I think that the middle eastern mesolithic is 20000-10000 BC. I don't think that admixture event could be much older, especially if WHG came from the middle east. Many suggested that the WHG group might have originated in anatolia before the LGM, while BE was hiding in north Africa or the Arabian peninsula, a sister clade too WHG could have being hiding in the levant at this time (early Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56318372848325203382017-02-17T09:36:38.915-08:002017-02-17T09:36:38.915-08:00In terms of the timeframe, Natufians and earliest ...In terms of the timeframe, Natufians and earliest CHG (Satsurblia) are both at around 14000 ybp, late Upper Paleolithic by the European age system, at around the timeframe of Villabruna and Bichon.<br /> <br />So I think it's hard to think that Basal Eurasian wouldn't have pervasive in the intervening regions at this time (between the South Levant to Caucasus), before the European Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25450722059266367762017-02-17T03:59:10.641-08:002017-02-17T03:59:10.641-08:00Thanks, the tree clears a lot of things, they have...Thanks, the tree clears a lot of things, they have indeed a "western source" for Natufians, and it's not WHG, that explains the high fst values between them(and many d-stats and nmonte stuff that didn't make much sence if WHG was the western population admixed in Natufians). My speculation is that since Vestonice or Goyet don't fit either, we can imagine that there were a Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76899422260860971352017-02-17T02:50:57.702-08:002017-02-17T02:50:57.702-08:00@ Ariel, thanks. Though I would say for whatever i...@ Ariel, thanks. Though I would say for whatever it is worth, there is some modeling of Natufians in Supplementary Information 4 and 7. Figure Figure S4.10 and Figure S4.11 which fits an ADMIXTUREGraph tree with Iran_N and WHG - Natufian takes a pre-West Eurasian ancestry edge from post ANE divergence, then post K-14 divergence, pre-WHG divergence (http://i.imgur.com/pf6Mvtq.png).<br /><br />I Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84781055006865260212017-02-16T05:48:21.200-08:002017-02-16T05:48:21.200-08:00Matt
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5-URy6M5-Nk/V28Tv...Matt<br /><br />https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5-URy6M5-Nk/V28Tv8HAgrI/AAAAAAAADXo/MBtLyUj5f3QUaPwq66RJz9tLlCJMKaDwACLcB/s1600/genetic-distances.png<br /><br />This graph alone should pose some questions in that regard.Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66886853795226105532017-02-16T05:43:32.877-08:002017-02-16T05:43:32.877-08:00Matt
That dont' have any data either way, but...Matt<br /><br />That dont' have any data either way, but too me it's clear omission, it's like they can't model Natufians with WHG, let alone older europeans. <br />https://s31.postimg.org/havdqpxjv/Fire_Shot_Screen_Capture_034_The_genetic_stru.pngArielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63965847419607295452017-02-16T01:05:54.392-08:002017-02-16T01:05:54.392-08:00The oldest H6 found so far is an European woman, a...The oldest H6 found so far is an European woman, and, even though only partially tested with 23andMe, we may see if she is negative for the sunclades:<br />CRS A263G A750G A1438G A4769G A8860G A15326G<br />H6 T239C T16362C A16482G<br />.. 23andMe('Jennifer Grannis'-huB2C416) H6 239C 263G 750G 1438G 4769G 10373A 15326G 16362C 16482G <br /><br />@ Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31120380543757128412017-02-16T00:59:04.152-08:002017-02-16T00:59:04.152-08:00@ Ariel, do you mean there are tables in Lazaridis...@ Ariel, do you mean there are tables in Lazaridis 2016 that will make you think that Natufians are equally close to Vestonice and MA1, or that it just doesn't have any data on that either way?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17920221132527685052017-02-16T00:53:17.807-08:002017-02-16T00:53:17.807-08:00@ Davidski
"H6 is from the Near East original...<br />@ Davidski<br />"H6 is from the Near East originally. It made its way to Europe during the Neolithic, and then from Europe into Central Asia during the Bronze Age".<br /><br />From how long are you an expert also of haplotypes beyond the autosome?<br /><br />Spain La Chora (Cantabria) [CH-1] 5346 ± 90 BC Date from Strauss 2002 ? 73G, 16093, 16362, reported as H6 Hervella 2012 <brGioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23324800977391708962017-02-16T00:28:49.279-08:002017-02-16T00:28:49.279-08:00@ Ariel
Why take you care of someone who is "...@ Ariel<br /><br />Why take you care of someone who is "senza nome né parte"?Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25179222947380619152017-02-16T00:24:37.742-08:002017-02-16T00:24:37.742-08:00Matt
There is no tables in that paper (or in the ...Matt<br /><br />There is no tables in that paper (or in the lazaridis one for that matter) that will let you think that Natufians are closer to Vestonice than ANE.Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23802369131244866532017-02-16T00:04:58.362-08:002017-02-16T00:04:58.362-08:00Unknown
Corsicans plot with tuscans and have a tu...Unknown<br /><br />Corsicans plot with tuscans and have a tuscan dialect and tuscan surnames, go figure.Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36251439216697748122017-02-16T00:03:09.330-08:002017-02-16T00:03:09.330-08:00Unknown
EEF have way more WHG than modern bedouin...Unknown<br /><br />EEF have way more WHG than modern bedouins...Arielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46632978647566592842017-02-15T18:37:37.795-08:002017-02-15T18:37:37.795-08:00I think Paleolithic and Mesolithic genomes from Af...I think Paleolithic and Mesolithic genomes from Africa are very important too, as african skulls from back then are nothing like the modern ones whereas Vestonice skulls are similar to modern European skulls despite substantial MENA admixtures in modern Europeans which suggests quite a population shift in Africa. Bantus might have wiped many divergent populations during their expansion.<br /><br Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28715602754292820572017-02-15T16:52:24.397-08:002017-02-15T16:52:24.397-08:00It's not feasible. Those genomes are too limit...It's not feasible. Those genomes are too limited.<br /><br />We won't know what the story really is in Eurasia until we see some good coverage Paleolithic genomes from Central and East Asia. Maybe then I can come up with a new calc. Although the present one works fine for showing the population history of West Eurasia, which is my focus.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46160563463282168072017-02-15T16:31:28.094-08:002017-02-15T16:31:28.094-08:00I can't tell where Corsicans would be plotting...I can't tell where Corsicans would be plotting, as I've never had seen any Corsican PCA, but they might be plotting closer to Sicilians.<br />The difference being that Sicilians have recent North African and Sub-Saharan ancestry whereas I think Corsicans may have less WHG and more basal eurasian than Sardinians as Corsica has been occupied by near eastern-rich populations such as Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40951569681064596922017-02-15T15:00:26.766-08:002017-02-15T15:00:26.766-08:00(3) Modern distributions strongly favour expansion...<i>(3) Modern distributions strongly favour expansion by a northern (steppe) route from central asia into western Europe with a side prong heading south down into the Sinai.</i><br /><br />H6 is from the Near East originally. It made its way to Europe during the Neolithic, and then from Europe into Central Asia during the Bronze Age.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28212792782777306472017-02-15T13:06:09.812-08:002017-02-15T13:06:09.812-08:00@Ryan and JV
I too am very interested in H6 but I...@Ryan and JV<br /><br />I too am very interested in H6 but I think it probably had a different path from H1 and H3. Not a lot of evidence about but at the moment it looks like:<br /><br />(1) Might be older in Europe than the main H1/H3 cohort (La Chora and a potential sample from paleolithic Morocco of H6a1a8).<br />(2) H6 is a much older, divergent haplogroup than H1/H3 which seems to have Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18728664484682724482017-02-15T11:53:31.421-08:002017-02-15T11:53:31.421-08:00@ Ariel, my take away from the Fu 2016 paper was t...@ Ariel, my take away from the Fu 2016 paper was that the Near East (presumably Natufians inc.) were closer to WHG (Villabruna cluster) than the Vestonice and Goyet clusters, but would still be closer to Vestonice and Goyet clusters than say, MA-1. But I haven't read it for a while. Is this different than what you are talking about?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62673009057183054492017-02-15T08:02:25.458-08:002017-02-15T08:02:25.458-08:00@ Uknown
So, if you do know about Corsicans, wher...@ Uknown<br /><br />So, if you do know about Corsicans, where do they plot on a PCA ? my guess is between Sardinians and North-Central italians, depending on what regions of the island (being the south more similar to Sardinians), but we still don't know. Also haplogroup studies on them are scarce, but the ones i've seen they have 20% of I2 (the one which is upt to 40% in Sardinians)truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08622344688109770244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54531216720659364062017-02-15T07:44:15.684-08:002017-02-15T07:44:15.684-08:00I don't think Corsicans are particularly inter...I don't think Corsicans are particularly interesting. They're similar to other neolithic islander farmer populations of near eastern origin, although they might have more CHG and/or North African/Natufian admixtures than Sardinians, similar to Cypriots.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74436350495893299062017-02-15T06:20:31.620-08:002017-02-15T06:20:31.620-08:00When a Autosomal study on Corsicans ? I've nev...When a Autosomal study on Corsicans ? I've never seen one. We already know pretty much everything about Sardinians.truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08622344688109770244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45158535774643798742017-02-15T06:12:14.885-08:002017-02-15T06:12:14.885-08:00Disappointing paper and conclusion. Mtdna H3 is of...Disappointing paper and conclusion. Mtdna H3 is often the second most common mtdna lineage after H1 in Northwest African populations (ignored in the paper), the frequencies in privately tested Maghrebis are in line with peer-reviewed papers at around 1/4 of the total belonging to H1 or H3, particularly high in Moroccans (sample size is small at less than 50 though, but still interesting). Thus H3idurarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05604185733037820498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79620629805521325882017-02-15T02:40:58.687-08:002017-02-15T02:40:58.687-08:00@Gioiello
Don't worry. I use the terms "...@Gioiello<br /><br />Don't worry. I use the terms "Near East" and "Near Eastern" only in a geographical sense. The Near East has no genetic unity, neither in the present nor in the past. We can talk of a kind of genetic unity when it comes to Europe, but for the Near East hardly any.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com