tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post4690009105888080761..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Population geneticists often not very good at population geneticsDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger127125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48216825643947411442017-04-18T07:22:38.605-07:002017-04-18T07:22:38.605-07:00Of course Z2103 and not Z2013.Of course Z2103 and not Z2013.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87970051727856869512017-04-18T07:13:43.802-07:002017-04-18T07:13:43.802-07:00From the paper of Pamjav et al. about Hungarian Y ...From the paper of Pamjav et al. about Hungarian Y nothing new and very old. E808/15, tested R1b-M343, is an "R1b-M73 > M478 > L1432" to compare with<br />277808 Stepan Kolomoets, Abt.1700 Ukraine R-BY13055 <br />13 19 14 10 13-13 12 12 14 14 13 30 16 9-9 11 11 23 15 19 34 12-15-15-16 11 9 19-25 15 16 17 17 29-35 12 10 11 8 16-16 8 10 10 8 10 11 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 16 6 12 24 21 Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86795295738211060262017-04-17T18:38:40.451-07:002017-04-17T18:38:40.451-07:00Thanks Rob.Thanks Rob.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51369858284826182412017-04-17T16:07:22.161-07:002017-04-17T16:07:22.161-07:00@ Ric
Well a similar post-LGM industry appears i...@ Ric <br /><br />Well a similar post-LGM industry appears in both sides of the great Caucasus c 18kya. So they must have communicated and migrated across <br /><br />Have a read of " Epipaleolithic of the Caucasus after the Last Glacial Maximum"<br /><br />Tell me what you think. I haven't read it in a while <br /><br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52181841714289354052017-04-17T08:35:13.862-07:002017-04-17T08:35:13.862-07:00Any chance you could list out the scripts you used...Any chance you could list out the scripts you used for the analysis?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88176424179661970152017-04-17T08:18:29.005-07:002017-04-17T08:18:29.005-07:00@ Sein, yeah, if you compare the three measures: f...@ Sein, yeah, if you compare the three measures: f3 outgroup stat, outgroup adjusted Fst, IBS, then you do find that the raw IBS is the most akin to the Fsts in representing an strong affinity of the AG3-MA1 population to South Central Asian populations without much drift. <br /><br />Though note the raw Fst is much more different to any of these measures than they are to each other! It's Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27117222593220043592017-04-17T08:03:16.936-07:002017-04-17T08:03:16.936-07:00@Rob
Yes there seems to be a connection between...@Rob <br /> <br />Yes there seems to be a connection between the Zarzians and the Southern Urals with the Microblade technology. But yes it is still anybodies guess what the Zarzians actually looked like Genetically. MA1-related ancestry could have introduced or contributed Microblade technology to the remnants of the Baradostians in that area with some partly admixing and formed the Zarzians.<brRic Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26786424428336797832017-04-17T07:07:33.790-07:002017-04-17T07:07:33.790-07:00@ Rob
"@ Gio No I deleted that comment becaus...@ Rob<br />"@ Gio No I deleted that comment because i had to add more details about the Caucasus/ Iran. Disregard it". <br /><br />As someone has many confused ideas about Epigravettian, I may say to you, who are a friend, that R-V88 is definetely demonstrated that it is older in Italy and Western Europe more than elsewhere, and also R-L389, when Sergey Malyshev decides to update his Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66558904888453522017-04-17T06:27:19.800-07:002017-04-17T06:27:19.800-07:00@ Gio
No I deleted that comment because i had to ...@ Gio<br /><br />No I deleted that comment because i had to add more details about the Caucasus/ Iran. Disregard it. <br /><br />@ Ric. <br /><br />It is had to say when ANE arrived to the Caucasus or Iran without pre-LGM samples in either region. In fact, from Iran, we have nothing before 10, 000 BC. The problems is that appears to be discontinuity of settlement in the Caucasus during the LGM (Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1242654485106297532017-04-17T05:16:35.001-07:002017-04-17T05:16:35.001-07:00Zarzian =Epi-Paleolithic 18 000 bC.
Mezine =Epi-P...Zarzian =Epi-Paleolithic 18 000 bC.<br />Mezine =Epi-Paleolithic 16 000 bC.<br />Villabruna =Epi-Paleolithic 12 000 bC.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42519744701837669332017-04-17T04:08:59.771-07:002017-04-17T04:08:59.771-07:00@ Rob
"There no problems with MA/AG ancestry ...@ Rob<br />"There no problems with MA/AG ancestry in Eastern Europe - microblades and all arriving at the terminal Palaeolithic, but I question if fits straightforwardly linked to Y Hg R. On balance of current evidence, it seems like it's *not*, at least for R1b. <br />[...] The South Caucasus has a hiatus during the LGM, after which would have bright villabruna / ANE fusion probably Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67548414672884448122017-04-17T03:12:02.807-07:002017-04-17T03:12:02.807-07:00@Davidski...
Then I am the one producing fiction? ...@Davidski...<br />Then I am the one producing fiction? --- Jesus!<br /><br />Have you ever looked at an Hypsometric map?- Go to googleMaps and just press "terrain". Then take a second to imagine how <i>"real humans"</i>, not <i>"Statistic Humans"</i> would really move around. Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71057617416721960862017-04-17T02:27:27.694-07:002017-04-17T02:27:27.694-07:00So MA1-related ancestry within EHG was due to a mi...So MA1-related ancestry within EHG was due to a migration that did not come into contact with Basal Eurasian. So could this point to an Earlier migration towards the West that predated the migration of Basal Eurasian(Baradostian?)types into the Southern Caspian that formed the CHG(Zarzian?) ? Which Culture preceded the Zarzian Culture in the Southern Caspian ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10436309962337095022017-04-17T02:06:23.586-07:002017-04-17T02:06:23.586-07:00MA1-related ancestry moved via the South Caspian i...MA1-related ancestry moved via the South Caspian into the Caucasus along with Basal Eurasian ancestry to form CHG, and it moved into Europe without Basal Eurasian ancestry to form EHG.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12710396053005033662017-04-17T02:06:00.247-07:002017-04-17T02:06:00.247-07:00Could there have been two different routes of MA1-...Could there have been two different routes of MA1-related migrations into the Pontic Caspian Steppe ? One North and the other South of the Caspian ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4266996795802337782017-04-17T01:49:35.963-07:002017-04-17T01:49:35.963-07:00@Davidski
So MA1-related ancestry did not use a ...@Davidski <br /><br />So MA1-related ancestry did not use a Northern Route from +-Siberia to Europe ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54839509427329978452017-04-17T00:01:59.965-07:002017-04-17T00:01:59.965-07:00Was this populations closer related to Villabrunas...<i>Was this populations closer related to Villabrunas or Sutsurblia ? Or did they contribute more towards Villabruna than to Sutsurblia?</i><br /><br />The Satsurblia cluster (CHG) has significant Villabruna-related and MA1-related ancestry.<br /><br />The Villabruna-related ancestry probably moved into the Caucasus from the Western Steppe, while the MA1-related ancestry probably mostly moved Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55011552568823941282017-04-16T23:28:40.200-07:002017-04-16T23:28:40.200-07:00@Davidski :
"population that contributed new...@Davidski :<br /><br />"population that contributed new alleles to people in the Villabruna Cluster"<br /><br />Was this populations closer related to Villabrunas or Sutsurblia ? Or did they contribute more towards Villabruna than to Sutsurblia ? <br /><br />Was this population a Native Steppe population or did it migrate from somewhere else, eg. Siberia ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37703467877738998422017-04-16T21:14:49.190-07:002017-04-16T21:14:49.190-07:00@batman
"When is such a 'movement' (...@batman<br /><br />"When is such a 'movement' (OOA to Altai) supposed to have happen?<br /><br />What facts exist to give evidence that this suggestion have any root in realities?"<br /><br />I don't know exactly what you mean, what is your question really?<br /><br />Modern humans from the OOA genetic group almost certainly arrived in that area >45,000 years ago, as theyKarl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31832744107873040782017-04-16T16:28:53.925-07:002017-04-16T16:28:53.925-07:00@Arza
The CHG mixture cline on the plot is testin...@Arza<br /><br />The CHG mixture cline on the plot is testing the validity of the qpAdm mixture model for CHG.<br /><br /><b>CHG</b><br />EHG 0.004<br />Hungary_HG 0.207<br />Iran_Neolithic 0.789<br />chisq 12.265 tail_prob 0.0921732<br /><br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XSV9HEoqpFNEduVnNLX3lITk0/view?usp=sharing<br /><br />These results appear to be in line with the following inference Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84007888953084064982017-04-16T13:57:42.392-07:002017-04-16T13:57:42.392-07:00Matt,
"I also wonder if the f3(Mbuti,Ancient...Matt,<br /><br />"I also wonder if the f3(Mbuti,Ancient,Test) isn't somehow weighted down by Basal Eurasian (or an ancient Northeast African population or whatever it is) in some way that isn't necessarily what we're expecting it to do by just removing the effect of drift. So you're not just getting a measure of how close say South Central Asians are to the ANE without drift,Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2315446781366246092017-04-16T09:20:52.240-07:002017-04-16T09:20:52.240-07:00@ Davidski
Main CHG mixture cline.
I've aske...@ Davidski<br /><br /><i>Main CHG mixture cline.</i><br /><br />I've asked about this line because it's probably the only one here that is in fact very far from being straight.<br /><br />If you want, you can put CHG at any place around of Iran Neo using just a slight rotation of the 3D plot, because in PC3 CHG is way "over" the Iran (view on the right). Such plot will be Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31002269712145717682017-04-16T03:05:05.314-07:002017-04-16T03:05:05.314-07:00Few more graphs:
IBS vs Fst (ANE, WHG, Early Neol...Few more graphs:<br /><br />IBS vs Fst (ANE, WHG, Early Neolithic) - http://i.imgur.com/zKyaxxO.png<br /><br />Basal K7 proportion vs Fst - http://i.imgur.com/Tmzc7u1.png<br /><br />IBS vs Fst (Bronze Age version) - http://i.imgur.com/rsLytlk.png<br /><br />IBS behaves much like f3 outgroup stat (as we know from graphing them against one another).Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77124768161728052902017-04-16T01:01:10.760-07:002017-04-16T01:01:10.760-07:00@Matt
Thanks again for all of these.
It's in...@Matt<br /><br />Thanks again for all of these.<br /><br />It's indeed very interesting how opposite the rankings of Fst differ from f3. Fst seems to favour diverse populations, who tend to get lower distances, while it "punishes" populations with very low diversity (Amerindians, Kalash, to a lesser degree Basques). But this looks quite preferable to f3, where it favours low Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77032506415994537652017-04-15T15:59:22.801-07:002017-04-15T15:59:22.801-07:00Thanks. Yeah, I actually think there are definite ...Thanks. Yeah, I actually think there are definite benefits to both kind of stats (now it seems there's enough data to calculate the Fst sensibly!). <br /><br />The f3 (and the "Yoruba relative Fst" strongly correlated with it) is useful at telling us more by excluding strong drift, so one use is that Kalash tend to be pretty typical for their region in that stat, unlike the Fst, andMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.com