tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post4731258026784222097..comments2024-03-28T17:16:03.042-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Global25 workshop 1: that classic West Eurasian plotDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68694879695501618902018-05-26T03:43:12.805-07:002018-05-26T03:43:12.805-07:00@ Anthro Survey
I wanted to send you a PM on anth...@ Anthro Survey<br /><br />I wanted to send you a PM on anthrogenica about an interesting new book, but you have exceeded your "stored private messages quota". Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56856816309057012732018-05-23T08:03:56.174-07:002018-05-23T08:03:56.174-07:00Global25 was fitting significant WSHG admixture to...Global25 was fitting significant WSHG admixture to EHG samples on top of WHG and AG3. Now it looks like qpAdm (rightpops CHG, Neolithic Near East, UP Europe, Oceania, Ami, Anzick, MA-1) supports it. Tail probs for modeling the oldest EHG Sidelkino as various WHG's+WSHG are between 0.35 and 0.5. Models with WHG+AG3 or WHG+AG3+WSHG have values below 0.3. Karelia-HG is Sidelkino with extra WHG (Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45987534892891072292018-05-23T06:40:58.636-07:002018-05-23T06:40:58.636-07:00@Ryukendo Kendow
Many thanks to you for all the g...@Ryukendo Kendow<br /><br />Many thanks to you for all the good times here!<br /><br />Since I'm in a similar situation where I'm not going to be posting here anymore I want to join in to thank everyone here who have made this place so interesting. It includes all the above mentioned, and Ryu himself, and probably a long list that I could hardly compile here, like FrankN, Nirjhar, JaydeepAlbertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60775214613387096522018-05-23T00:48:00.632-07:002018-05-23T00:48:00.632-07:00For various reasons I'm not going to be postin...For various reasons I'm not going to be posting here any longer.<br /><br />I want to thank all of you, and especially Matt, Rob, Shaikorth, Chad, Alberto, Sein, Kristiina, Santosh, Karl_K, Ebizur, and Capra_Internetensis for the conversations and spirited debates we have had here. It has been very stimulating, and its early days, but it has probably permanently changed the trajectory of my Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74904350979582919482018-05-22T23:28:10.885-07:002018-05-22T23:28:10.885-07:00Matt,
"Not so clear to me that Basal Eurasia...Matt,<br /><br />"Not so clear to me that Basal Eurasian-Crown Eurasian split is "big potatoes" while splits within the CE clade are "small potatoes", yet..."<br /><br />I think your circumspection is completely warranted.<br /><br />We really need an actual Basal Eurasian aDNA sample, to crack this puzzle (without actual aDNA, the models can be tuned in a very largeSeinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69863098578128992172018-05-22T18:25:36.142-07:002018-05-22T18:25:36.142-07:00David,
Thanks - had it done in 10 mins - you now ...David,<br /><br />Thanks - had it done in 10 mins - you now have me hooked into delving deeper :)<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />Doug Marker<br />Sydney Australiadsjm1https://www.blogger.com/profile/07779323885237127015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9402792458009110522018-05-22T17:08:02.734-07:002018-05-22T17:08:02.734-07:00@EastPole
"Belarus,etc....There steppe peopl...@EastPole<br /><br />"Belarus,etc....There steppe people probably were more admixed with farmers and less with Hunter Gatherers"<br /><br />My hunch exactly for CWCs there circa 2200BC or so! <br />Not sure that this would hold for the people in the <i>heavily forested</i> regions of those lands, though, where I wouldn't expect extensive penetration of neither EEF nor steppe-like atAnthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8446222499526835912018-05-22T16:33:33.660-07:002018-05-22T16:33:33.660-07:00@All
Idiotic comments from banned commentator Oly...@All<br /><br />Idiotic comments from banned commentator Olympus Mons deleted.<br /><br />This ridiculous person can't come to terms with the fact that R1b-L23 isn't native to the Southern Caucasus, and, thus, that there won't be any R1b-L23 in any pre-Bronze Age Near Eastern populations, <b>which means no R1b-L23 in Shulaveri Shomu</b>.<br /><br />Please ignore all such bleating fromDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40253921330014920452018-05-22T15:54:16.345-07:002018-05-22T15:54:16.345-07:00@Davidski
Baltic Corded Ware/BA was to the north o...@Davidski<br />Baltic Corded Ware/BA was to the north of Belarus area. We don’t have much Corded Ware from Belarus, Poland and Ukraine. There steppe people probably were more admixed with farmers and less with Hunter Gatherers. Genetics is not everything. Look at the language, religion, culture. Everything supports the area north of the steppe.<br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84854246839293368052018-05-22T15:45:58.470-07:002018-05-22T15:45:58.470-07:00^ to add: I.E The question is whether populations ...^ to add: I.E The question is whether populations of CWCs, Westward-shifted enough to make them touch/cluster with Poles or Ukrainians, existed at one time in some region. I see no reason why not because we don't have a full spatio-temporal transect of CWCs right now, and the few that we do have show some variation. Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79916705810438603642018-05-22T15:41:31.344-07:002018-05-22T15:41:31.344-07:00@Davidski
What I'm wondering about is if Polt...@Davidski<br /><br />What I'm wondering about is if Poltavka-like populations form an appreciable ancestral layer in Sintashta/Andronovo(say, >10%) or whether they were essentially undiluted CWC offshoots. <br /><br />If the former is true, we're potentially looking at the dominant, non-Poltavka CWC layer closely resembling/clustering with contemporary East Europeans in 2D PCA space. IAnthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1734603161467097392018-05-22T15:31:52.206-07:002018-05-22T15:31:52.206-07:00@Samuel
As far as I remember, Reich was saying th...@Samuel<br /><br />As far as I remember, Reich was saying this about comparing the verteces of the West Eurasian PCA <i>diagonally</i>. <br /><br />In that case, it does make sense that the distance b/ween WHG and Iran_N (or between ANE and Levant_N) should be <i>comparable</i> to(but still less than) that between Chinese and contemp. Iranians. In both cases, you're taking a Crown Eurasian Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89240125303316619292018-05-22T15:15:52.281-07:002018-05-22T15:15:52.281-07:00@EastPole
I wouldn't trust the German media, ...@EastPole<br /><br />I wouldn't trust the German media, or any mass media, to tell you where Sintashta originated. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if they claim it was Belarus, then it probably wasn't Belarus.<br /><br />Note that in the Global25, the least admixed (most western) Sintashta samples show more affinity to Czech Corded Ware (minus the MN farmer-like outlier) than toDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47344020453070148172018-05-22T14:44:25.427-07:002018-05-22T14:44:25.427-07:00Interesting article in “Der Spiegel” about recent ...Interesting article in “Der Spiegel” about recent genetic research. Fragment about migrations from Eastern Europe to India Google translated by me:<br /><br />“The researchers now trace the stages of the centuries-old migration. It started in around 4800 years ago roughly on the territory of present-day Belarus. There, penetrating Yamnaya had mixed with the local farmer population. So to speak asEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16935397273291352322018-05-22T11:54:31.190-07:002018-05-22T11:54:31.190-07:00@ Dave
Thanks for the new data sheet and the tuto...@ Dave<br /><br />Thanks for the new data sheet and the tutorial.Michalis Moriopouloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12874041332836626074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39395329183607233032018-05-22T11:22:41.302-07:002018-05-22T11:22:41.302-07:00@Shaikorth, yeah, IMO Basal Eurasian to Anatolians...@Shaikorth, yeah, IMO Basal Eurasian to Anatolians could be something like 36% as in Laz 2014, 9% as in Kamm 2018, or something between the two like 24% which would comparable % to Tianyuan in Ami per McColl's preprint.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76507620123639866702018-05-22T11:16:34.246-07:002018-05-22T11:16:34.246-07:00@Matt
Lazaridis' tweets about Kamm et al. impl...@Matt<br />Lazaridis' tweets about Kamm et al. imply he's open to Basal percentages going down quite a bit, which would push the component further back from generic Eurasian clades. Lazaridis 2016 estimates about 25% for ENF, Kamm about 10%. <br /><br />On another note, Global25 nMonte (scaled, pen=0) persistently suggests lots of WSHG in EHG's instead of fitting them as a mix of justShaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54904850005070242042018-05-22T11:14:47.423-07:002018-05-22T11:14:47.423-07:00Forgive the off topic question, but is it possible...Forgive the off topic question, but is it possible to distinguish between a half sibling and an aunt/uncle using DNA alone? I have a 27% match on Ancestry and I'm trying to figure out if he's a half brother or an uncle. Would the number of segments by higher for a uncle than a half brother due to there being recombination happening twice for the uncle as opposed to once for the half Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63795549108746373862018-05-22T10:56:05.147-07:002018-05-22T10:56:05.147-07:00@sein:The processes are parallel, but the magnitud...@sein:<i>The processes are parallel, but the magnitude of genetic differentiation is quite different</i><br /><br />That kind of depends on the model specification! Phylogenetically, they have to be deeper deeper, as is even more so than for the Basal Eurasian case, the case for OoA+Basal AMH in Africans; but models are still all over the map in whether Basal Eurasian is almost at the divergence Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68768946095309600692018-05-22T01:33:44.333-07:002018-05-22T01:33:44.333-07:00Matt,
"1) Early split of Tianyuan as outgrou...Matt,<br /><br />"1) Early split of Tianyuan as outgroup to main East Eurasian ancestry parallels early split off of Basal Eurasian, as sort of Basal East Eurasian"<br /><br />Ah, therein lies the distinction; East Eurasians do not have any noticeable Eurasian ancestry outside of what RK dubbed "Crown Eurasian", while essentially all West Eurasians (from Europe to northern Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42725819620285996312018-05-22T00:50:10.456-07:002018-05-22T00:50:10.456-07:00Actually, thinking about it, with the data at the ...Actually, thinking about it, with the data at the moment, in the broad details the East Eurasian case is quite parallel to West Eurasia:<br /><br />1) Early split of Tianyuan as outgroup to main East Eurasian ancestry parallels early split off of Basal Eurasian, as sort of Basal East Eurasian<br /><br />2) Split off of main East Eurasian ancestry into Oceanian and Onge-like (Deeply Diverged East Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84139894047043109092018-05-22T00:44:17.320-07:002018-05-22T00:44:17.320-07:00@Matt
I see what you mean.
OTOH, all the releva...@Matt<br /><br />I see what you mean. <br /><br />OTOH, all the relevant Iranians cluster in that PCA and the modeling is done as CHG + Iran Chalcolithic + Anatolian Chalcolithic so all samples are modeled as sum of three samples with a substantial amount of CHG. Couldn't that muddle the differences in the PCA?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53381662895243510022018-05-22T00:04:00.923-07:002018-05-22T00:04:00.923-07:00West Eurasians is an illustrative example, but Afr...West Eurasians is an illustrative example, but Africans and East Eurasians just as illustrative; <br /><br />- African groups (besides recent West Eurasian ancestry) are mixes between the OoA clade and a basal AMH clade<br /><br />- East Asians are a mix of Tianyuan clade and a specific branch with Onge subsequent to Onge-Papuan separation, and Tianyuan itself shares an unresolved relationship Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84722716261736448502018-05-21T23:37:06.264-07:002018-05-21T23:37:06.264-07:00@Sein,
"And even more glaring, the Caucasoid...@Sein,<br /><br />"And even more glaring, the Caucasoid category was wrong in the sense that "West Eurasians" are not an actual phylogenetic unit, but are rather complex mixtures between distantly related western and eastern streams"<br /><br />True. How distant they were we don't know. We don't know what the relation between ANE, WHG, EEF, bla, bla are to each other Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24799566606480125572018-05-21T23:33:02.542-07:002018-05-21T23:33:02.542-07:00@Davidski
The link is now fine. Thanks ....@Davidski<br /><br />The link is now fine. Thanks ....Le skipper de Pytheashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04901423587587514515noreply@blogger.com