tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5080934364774992328..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The mystery of the Sintashta peopleDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger222125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14628166122886977802018-05-05T20:00:58.794-07:002018-05-05T20:00:58.794-07:00@Rob
Even if further evidence vindicates your spe...@Rob<br /><br />Even if further evidence vindicates your speculations about I2a, how do you know Yamnaya groups in Bulgaria were <i>predominantly local by their paternal origins</i>(n being ~1)? How do you know it wasn't a mix of z2103 and local EEF Hgs? I'm not saying you're wrong, but this isn't established. At any rate, you apparently don't seem to disagree about Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56498792379451629362018-05-05T04:34:52.053-07:002018-05-05T04:34:52.053-07:00@ AnthroS
I understand what you're saying, bu...@ AnthroS<br /><br />I understand what you're saying, but that's not a reflection of reality. You're making theoretical scenarios in place of reality. <br />The predecessor I2a2a1b1 found in Bulgarian Yamnaya (3000-2600 cal BC) is found in preceding pre-Bronze Age Tell site (3300 cal BC; Smyadovo) and is found in contemporary, non-Yamnaya Bronze Age Bulgarian sites. By contrast, no Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59845380997441584652018-05-05T03:00:03.525-07:002018-05-05T03:00:03.525-07:00@Rob
Seems you're the one engaging in straw-m...@Rob<br /><br />Seems you're the one engaging in straw-mans.<br />"e.g. I2a2a1b or any derived branch does not appear in Ukraine before Mariupol"<br />Please point to where you see me disputing such a movement from the Balkans that would result in this.<br /><br />Sister branches aren't mutually exclusive with migrations. <br />Ancestral stream A migrates into a zone. Mixes Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1766859359727173132018-05-05T02:01:05.445-07:002018-05-05T02:01:05.445-07:00@ Anthro
That's a strawman, I am not proposin...@ Anthro<br /><br />That's a strawman, I am not proposing a 'simple pulse model". Also, you- nor anyone else- haven't parsed through the rest of the calls (so don't in fact understand what is what), nor do you understand sequences of the region, even when outlined in a manner a 7 year old would understand (e.g. I2a2a1b or <i>any derived branch</i> does not appear in Ukraine Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63815628928127726712018-05-05T01:26:43.876-07:002018-05-05T01:26:43.876-07:00@Rob
>ALPc_MN 5500 BC
>Ukraine_Mariupol Avg...@Rob<br /><br />>ALPc_MN 5500 BC<br />>Ukraine_Mariupol Avg 5000 BC<br />>Western Yamnaya. <br />Really? <br />Mind you, I don't dispute that such groups contributed or were otherwise sister branches(both genetically and culturally) to EEF groups who had a formative role in "proper" Yamna's formation. <br /><br />When I say "Old Europe", I don't, in fact, Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50838226085856990182018-05-03T03:04:19.812-07:002018-05-03T03:04:19.812-07:00@ AnthroS
"Rob
Which western yamnaya sample...@ AnthroS<br /><br />"Rob<br /><br />Which western yamnaya samples do you have in mind? <br /><br />Again, there was an important, formative stage of back-n-forth interaction between "Old Europe" and "Khvalynsk horizon" taking place over the checkerboard that was Ukraine. My original point was in regards to the importance of the single digit EEF in Yamnaya which belies itRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11903680477008764142018-05-02T19:48:26.407-07:002018-05-02T19:48:26.407-07:00@Chad
Very interesting! Thanks for running. @Chad<br /><br />Very interesting! Thanks for running. Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50258713584036814442018-05-02T19:39:36.707-07:002018-05-02T19:39:36.707-07:00Rob
Which western yamnaya samples do you have in ...Rob<br /><br />Which western yamnaya samples do you have in mind? <br /><br />Again, there was an improtant, formative stage of back-n-forth interaction between "Old Europe" and "Khvalynsk horizon" taking place over the checkerboard that was Ukraine. My original point was in regards to the importance of the single digit EEF in Yamnaya which belies it. <br /><br />Nevertheless,Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8304679364124526922018-05-02T03:43:06.186-07:002018-05-02T03:43:06.186-07:00@ Old Europe
There was a continuum over the epochs...@ Old Europe<br />There was a continuum over the epochs but it was not a static one. <br />Toward the 3000 BC mark, the pendulum definitely swings toward the EHG/ CHG side in terms of overall autosomal ancestry. But that's just one dimension of the puzzle, and one which is still being reconstructed. =Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1190944580327584482018-05-02T01:53:31.036-07:002018-05-02T01:53:31.036-07:00@Rob and Anthro
So basically you're saying th...@Rob and Anthro<br /><br />So basically you're saying that we have now a genetic confirmation of basically the Manzura thesis. old europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11527452056485058148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42902412253882602042018-05-01T23:52:17.615-07:002018-05-01T23:52:17.615-07:00@ Chad
Blessed post 🙏@ Chad<br /><br />Blessed post 🙏Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16915126661390836042018-05-01T23:19:54.561-07:002018-05-01T23:19:54.561-07:00Let's see what Fst-based models have to say. R...Let's see what Fst-based models have to say. Running an Fst matrix on the new South/Central Asian data and much more right now.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76080071068950931102018-05-01T23:07:39.797-07:002018-05-01T23:07:39.797-07:00Nice Chad
That might answer the differences in wh...Nice Chad<br />That might answer the differences in what Anthro and I were discussing. <br />If Shahr-3 isn’t the optimal representation of IVC, then BMAC will rise Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26013045678954464902018-05-01T22:21:49.475-07:002018-05-01T22:21:49.475-07:00If IVC ends up being just Iran plus something like...If IVC ends up being just Iran plus something like Onge, with no Anatolian, then watch BMAC numbers jump and Sintashta or Steppe MLBA really decline. We need IVC samples to be sure. But if this Malayan represents IVC, plus a later SA admixture event into Brahmins, then BMAC is going to go way up, like it is here. We just have to wait and see what the IVC samples say.<br /><br />left pops:<br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88028433081218908642018-05-01T22:01:47.665-07:002018-05-01T22:01:47.665-07:00Malayan looks to best represent the South Indian a...Malayan looks to best represent the South Indian ancestry of Brahmins. I tried to add some Iranian admixture, but it was -1.5%. So, I may need an even more West Asian source for another attempt. Certainly an interesting output. <br /><br />left pops:<br />Brahmin<br />Malayan<br />Gonur1_BA<br />Dali_EBA<br />Sintashta<br /><br />right pops:<br />Mota<br />Ust_Ishim<br />Kostenki14<br />MA1<br /Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75067403013424030362018-05-01T19:39:00.959-07:002018-05-01T19:39:00.959-07:00left pops:
Brahmin
Mala
Gonur1_BA
Sintashta
Dali_E...left pops:<br />Brahmin<br />Mala<br />Gonur1_BA<br />Sintashta<br />Dali_EBA<br /><br />right pops:<br />Mota<br />Ust_Ishim<br />Kostenki14<br />MA1<br />GoyetQ116-1<br />Vestonice16<br />Villabruna<br />ElMiron<br />Iron_Gates<br />EHG<br />Ganj_Dareh_N<br />Levant_N<br />Anatolia_N<br />Hajji_Firuz_ChL<br />Steppe_EMBA<br />Globular_Amphora<br />Ami<br />Onge<br />West_Siberia_N<br /><br />Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87493492309370848602018-05-01T18:55:02.129-07:002018-05-01T18:55:02.129-07:00left pops:
Brahmin
Mala
Sappali_Tepe_BA
Krasnoyars...left pops:<br />Brahmin<br />Mala<br />Sappali_Tepe_BA<br />Krasnoyarsk_MLBA<br />Dali_EBA<br /><br />right pops:<br />Mota<br />Ust_Ishim<br />Kostenki14<br />MA1<br />GoyetQ116-1<br />Vestonice16<br />Villabruna<br />ElMiron<br />Iron_Gates<br />EHG<br />Ganj_Dareh_N<br />Levant_N<br />Anatolia_N<br />Hajji_Firuz_ChL<br />Steppe_EMBA<br />Globular_Amphora<br />Ami<br />Onge<br /><br />best Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44004159770110870102018-05-01T15:07:05.863-07:002018-05-01T15:07:05.863-07:00LOLZ.. Just for shits and giggles...
left pops:
B...LOLZ.. Just for shits and giggles...<br /><br />left pops:<br />Brahmin<br />Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1<br />West_Siberia_N<br />Onge<br /><br />right pops:<br />Mota<br />Ust_Ishim<br />Kostenki14<br />MA1<br />GoyetQ116-1<br />Vestonice16<br />Villabruna<br />ElMiron<br />Iron_Gates<br />EHG<br />Ganj_Dareh_N<br />Natufian<br />Anatolia_N<br />Boncuklu<br />Steppe_EMBA<br />Globular_Amphora<br />LBK_ENChadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82922955344432157132018-05-01T04:03:34.478-07:002018-05-01T04:03:34.478-07:00@alberto
The 4000bc connection between Armenia and...@alberto<br />The 4000bc connection between Armenia and sarazm is very interesting indeed.<br />vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59168672566658055132018-05-01T01:25:34.929-07:002018-05-01T01:25:34.929-07:00@ AnthroS
Yamnaya is a large horizon which spanned...@ AnthroS<br />Yamnaya is a large horizon which spanned from Hungary to the urals and was preceded by several phases of kurgan culture <br />So no, Yamnaya didn’t form in Thrace (south Bulgaria) but in E Hungary and north Bulgaria (the Getan steppe) is no later than Yamnaya in the east <br />Based on the genetic data it seems that, for western Yamnaya , groups like cernavoda and konstantinova areRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15028268159277291592018-04-30T22:42:35.901-07:002018-04-30T22:42:35.901-07:00@Rob
Yes, but, the thing is, how demographically ...@Rob<br /><br />Yes, but, the thing is, how demographically important were these groups in the long run and, more importantly, what were these groups like ancestrally? Were these basically EEFs or EHG-EEF hybrids like that Chalco outlier? <br /><br />Either way, Yamna itself did not form near Bulgaria even if much of its cultural package owes itself to these or sister tumular groups, but ended Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35331554409531450992018-04-30T22:20:52.023-07:002018-04-30T22:20:52.023-07:00@ Anthro
Ah- it seems you’re unaware that Tumula...@ Anthro <br /><br />Ah- it seems you’re unaware that Tumular groups had been in east hungry and lower Danube since 4000 BC<br />That’s why your models are wrong <br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15081612739490955392018-04-30T21:49:14.569-07:002018-04-30T21:49:14.569-07:00@Rob
Yamnaya_Ukraine
Khvalynsk_Eneolithic 52.6%
...@Rob<br /><br />Yamnaya_Ukraine <br />Khvalynsk_Eneolithic 52.6%<br />Ukraine_Eneolithic:I6561 25%<br />CHG 22.4%<br />EHG 0%<br />Ukraine_N 0%<br />Ukraine_N_o 0%<br /><br />Kalmykia and Samara are similar to this. Even if it wasn't Khvalynsk per se, it was still an interaction axis involving an early EHG---CHG continuum and EEF-admixed groups from Eastern Ukraine. <br /><br />Which samples Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64809283063502278502018-04-30T20:27:11.849-07:002018-04-30T20:27:11.849-07:00@ Anthro
At this stage i disagree. I think it wa...@ Anthro <br /><br />At this stage i disagree. I think it was groups from Kuban-Don steppe mixing with western Sredni Stog to form Yamnaya. Khvalynsk was peripheral in the process. <br />As I was saying, you're calculations are wrong about EEF in Yamnaya, as you're basing it solely on Russian Yamnaya (& the Ukrainian Yamnaya females). <br /><br />Look at the western end of things. <brRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39112988658189562822018-04-30T15:49:15.981-07:002018-04-30T15:49:15.981-07:00@Rob
If things went down the way models suggest t...@Rob<br /><br />If things went down the way models suggest they did(of which OldEurope is so very fond of)----Ukraine_Eneo-like folks mixing with Khvalynsk and CHG to make Yamnaya proper---I made a rather fitting analogy. Don't have the exact numbers, but suppose Ukr_Eneo groups were about 30% EEF. I'm sure you and I both agree about this EEF portion exerting disproportionately large Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.com