tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5207430737497242215..comments2024-03-28T01:37:00.047-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Analysis of an ancient genome from HinxtonDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger340125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61841640600038201942015-08-22T19:58:16.293-07:002015-08-22T19:58:16.293-07:00"CEU, in many runs, does show up in the Briti..."CEU, in many runs, does show up in the British plot. These people are mostly of British and North German descent, I believe. "<br /><br />Utah is the really only state where conclusively English are the largest ethnic group* Add in that many Mormons came to the US from England, including Mitt Romney's ancestors and they seem a pretty good stand in.<br /><br />As far as the Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16252036184505404113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87344825268799004972015-08-22T18:17:28.008-07:002015-08-22T18:17:28.008-07:00"If I use Tuscans to portray the average Roma..."If I use Tuscans to portray the average Roman soldier, Italian/Gaul, at 75% EEF, 13% WHG, and 12% ANE, " <br /><br />Using people from an area that has genetic links in both people and cattle to Anatolia & the near east to model central and western European Gauls?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16252036184505404113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15781696866166637142015-08-22T17:39:59.054-07:002015-08-22T17:39:59.054-07:00I got as far as this:
"On the Norman invasio...I got as far as this:<br /> "On the Norman invasion thing, the Normans were basically Scandinavians who took on French customs, culture and language. Hence the name (Northman). So would it be that Normans, (really French speaking Norwegians) were already quite high in WHG?"<br /><br />then decided to comment. Yes, Normandy was settled by Scandinavians many generations earlier but they Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16252036184505404113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54979936036497547572014-10-22T02:53:13.831-07:002014-10-22T02:53:13.831-07:00As for the unusual y-chromosomes in parts of Wales...As for the unusual y-chromosomes in parts of Wales, it's a pity the article doesn't specifiy the haplogroup. But from the description I would guess they mean J2. According to Eupedia J2 is 1% in Wales on the whole. And R1b clearly predominant, like in all remote parts of Western Europe. I think it's problematic to read too much into the haplogroup frequency of a single small area, Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11697800451997771432014-10-22T02:43:51.614-07:002014-10-22T02:43:51.614-07:00Grey, the q-Celtic branch has the q instead of PIE...Grey, the q-Celtic branch has the q instead of PIE *kw, I think that's still close to the original sound quality. Similarly in Italic there is a q-branch, the most famous being Latin. See "equus" for istance, that's derived from PIE *ekwos. And p-Celtic was also present in continental Europe, so that can't be from a specifically British substrate. Also there is a p-branch inSimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89825097929242830682014-10-20T01:15:16.731-07:002014-10-20T01:15:16.731-07:00Chad : Matt, k13 has me in the se section of se En...Chad : <i>Matt, k13 has me in the se section of se English. I'm about half colonial and northern British. The other half is Danish, Pomeranian German, Alsatian/French, Bavarian, Irish, and Jew. Yet, I am close to a modern Kentish person.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I don't think that is impossible, although I imagine you would score higher on certain measures of genetic diversity and IBD with Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26732539905884683882014-10-20T00:22:15.623-07:002014-10-20T00:22:15.623-07:00I think this from 2011 may have been the previous ...I think this from 2011 may have been the previous investigation mentioned above:<br /><br />http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-14173910<br /><br />"So far, 500 people have taken part in the study which shows 30% of men carry an unusual type of Y chromosome, compared to 1% of men elsewhere the UK."<br /><br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1730350611430922652014-10-20T00:12:12.243-07:002014-10-20T00:12:12.243-07:00I should have done this from the beginning but any...I should have done this from the beginning but anyway a quick bit of googling produces the Welsh dna project and their Y dna page:<br /><br />https://www.familytreedna.com/public/walesdna/default.aspx?section=yresults<br /><br />Majority R as expected but also what looks like c. 20% E, F, G, I1, I2 and J<br /><br />.<br /><br />https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/archaeology/research/copper-mines/index<Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18067955374421592822014-10-19T23:51:17.170-07:002014-10-19T23:51:17.170-07:00@Chad
" k13 has me in the se section of se E...@Chad<br /><br />" k13 has me in the se section of se English. I'm about half colonial and northern British. The other half is Danish, Pomeranian German, Alsatian/French, Bavarian, Irish, and Jew. Yet, I am close to a modern Kentish person."<br /><br />We're not actually arguing. I'm saying a similar more Mediterranean-like LBK/Megalith substrate may have existed in Britain Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86180567448047449442014-10-19T23:21:04.617-07:002014-10-19T23:21:04.617-07:00@Simon_W
"There must have been more than two...@Simon_W<br /><br />"There must have been more than two Celtic invasions on the British Isles...They must have been at least the third Celtic layer."<br /><br />Yes and one of those layers could be a pre-Celtic layer that adopted Celtic culture.<br /><br />(On the language issue could a conquered pre-Celtic population have caused the language shift?)<br /><br />(basically i'm Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4436260640280412072014-10-19T23:14:20.677-07:002014-10-19T23:14:20.677-07:00# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.19
2 Balt...# Population Percent<br />1 North_Atlantic 49.19<br />2 Baltic 23.52<br />3 West_Med 13.43<br />4 East_Med 7.80<br />5 West_Asian 2.98<br />6 Siberian 1.44<br /><br /><br />Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.<br />13 components mode.<br /><br />--------------------------------<br /><br />Least-squares method.<br /><br />Using 1 population approximation:<br />1 Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16538063882106670372014-10-19T23:09:56.132-07:002014-10-19T23:09:56.132-07:00I should have added to this to the last post so ap...I should have added to this to the last post so apologies but 30-ish years ago after spending a lot of time in "outdoor" activities in Ireland and the west of Britain it struck me that the Welsh/Cornish were distinct from (most of) the Scottish/Irish and if anything the English were like a mixture of the two.<br /><br />Now that dna is being used I'm very curious to see if there wasGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71596800872229329942014-10-19T23:09:00.195-07:002014-10-19T23:09:00.195-07:00There must have been more than two Celtic invasion...There must have been more than two Celtic invasions on the British Isles. Because we find q-Celtic (Gaelic) and p-Celtic (Brythonic) there. Q-Celtic is the oldest branch, and in antiquity it was confined to Ireland. P-Celtic however was present in Wales and in Scotland, as well as in England. The Belgae however were only in the Southeast of England. They must have been at least the third Celtic Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65761687671525777292014-10-19T23:05:23.425-07:002014-10-19T23:05:23.425-07:00@Simon_W
"Therefore whatever differentiates ...@Simon_W<br /><br />"Therefore whatever differentiates the Welsh from the Hinxton Britons, it's unlikely to be simply the pre-Belgic layer. I suspect it's more ancient."<br /><br />Started typing after your first sentence and didn't read the rest till after my last post so...<br /><br />Yes. I don't have a clear view on where it comes from but there is (or was) a Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64070817789382218162014-10-19T23:02:36.803-07:002014-10-19T23:02:36.803-07:00As for the Saxons in northern Germany, I think the...As for the Saxons in northern Germany, I think they were never quite homogenous, since they arose from a fusion of smaller tribes of early antiquity (as all the late antique West Germanic tribes did): Saxones, Chauci, Cherusci and Angrivarii. Hence probably only those close to the North Sea were very similar to the Anglo-Saxons in England. Those more to the South may have had a bit more ancestry Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8306085297876220952014-10-19T23:00:54.297-07:002014-10-19T23:00:54.297-07:00@Simon_W
"there were no Belgae in Ireland&qu...@Simon_W<br /><br />"there were no Belgae in Ireland"<br /><br />I'm using Belgae more generally as "Germanic Celts" but specifically maybe there were:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Builg<br /><br />The key point - which has got a bit lost I admit - is in the history books Celt and Saxon are generally seen as distinct populations with Welsh/Cornish grouped with Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42535083047379984602014-10-19T22:38:50.163-07:002014-10-19T22:38:50.163-07:0040% Italian? You should re-check what I wrote. I s...40% Italian? You should re-check what I wrote. I said Danes, Normans/French, Gascony, Huguenots, palatinate Germans, Flemish, Italian, and Irish. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64023595292132625352014-10-19T22:31:27.727-07:002014-10-19T22:31:27.727-07:00Grey, there were no Belgae in Ireland, yet the Iri...Grey, there were no Belgae in Ireland, yet the Irish seem to be close to the Hinxton Britons. Therefore whatever differentiates the Welsh from the Hinxton Britons, it's unlikely to be simply the pre-Belgic layer. I suspect it's more ancient.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70284437142605273732014-10-19T21:38:34.934-07:002014-10-19T21:38:34.934-07:00@Chad
"Jones, pre-conquest?
There was no one...@Chad<br /><br />"Jones, pre-conquest?<br />There was no one named Jones in the 5th-12th Century."<br /><br />Exactly, surnames arrived relatively late so... the people who generated those distinctively "Welsh" surnames survived in a form that would generate those surnames until relatively late.<br /><br />.<br /><br />"England has 53 mil people<br />600k are Welsh"<Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40815855961761030072014-10-19T21:20:14.341-07:002014-10-19T21:20:14.341-07:00@Matt
"looking at Hinxton4's Eurogenes K...@Matt<br /><br />"looking at Hinxton4's Eurogenes K13 ... and trying to mix it with another population to get modern Southeast English"<br /><br />If there are differences between modern SE English and the Hinxton samples that certainly makes sense.<br /><br />", the best single population to mix with seems about 10% West German / South Dutch.""<br /><br />Which doesnGreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74755576760798118352014-10-19T21:14:30.207-07:002014-10-19T21:14:30.207-07:00@Simon_W
"If Iron Age Britons were Irish-lik...@Simon_W<br /><br />"If Iron Age Britons were Irish-like and Anglo-Saxons Orcadian-like"<br /><br />That seems to me to be the critical point. Were the Belgae Celts the definitive Iron Age Britons or were there remnants from the previous layer.<br /><br />The thing is it's been remarked on for many years by numerous writers that the Welsh look different. It's faded over time Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10148593989487574052014-10-19T18:02:00.676-07:002014-10-19T18:02:00.676-07:00Hinxton 3/4 mix
22 North Sea
20 North Atlantic
12...Hinxton 3/4 mix<br /><br />22 North Sea<br />20 North Atlantic<br />12 Fennoscandia<br />12 Iberian<br /> 8 Central Euro<br /> 8 French<br /> 4 Italian<br /> 3 Basque<br /> 3 East Central Euro<br /> 2 West Caucasian<br /> 2 North Caucasian<br /><br />The rest is under 1%Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8858206097386097522014-10-19T17:49:08.729-07:002014-10-19T17:49:08.729-07:00Hinxton-4
k36
19.46 North Atlantic
18.61 Iberian...Hinxton-4 <br />k36<br /><br />19.46 North Atlantic<br />18.61 Iberian<br />12.93 North Sea<br />12.02 Fennoscandia<br />10.21 French<br /> 8.45 Central Euro<br /> 6.53 East Central Euro<br /> 5.56 Italian<br /> 3.93 North Caucasian<br /> 1.22 Eastern Euro<br /> 1.01 Basque<br /> 0.06 East BalkanChadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23716387512462830562014-10-19T17:33:27.619-07:002014-10-19T17:33:27.619-07:00Matt,
Considering the later settlement by Danes, ...Matt, <br />Considering the later settlement by Danes, Normans/French, Gascony, Huguenots, palatinate Germans, the IR migrations, and later Irish movements, should even it out, as you say.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64126841049744526452014-10-19T17:24:13.839-07:002014-10-19T17:24:13.839-07:00"disregarding differences in the non-West Eur..."disregarding differences in the non-West Eurasian components"<br /><br />A minor and annoying problem comparing ancient-modern admixture results is modern ones have up to 1.5% noise, while ancient ones score 0 in pretty much all non-west Eurasian components.Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.com