tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post549546309018580916..comments2024-03-28T02:40:18.114-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians came from...Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47573688006775370052020-04-03T06:55:14.863-07:002020-04-03T06:55:14.863-07:00Dear Davidsky! What about R-Y5587?Dear Davidsky! What about R-Y5587?R-Y5587 / U5B1B1Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12278554489685947952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12418235547807207332018-10-13T19:15:50.140-07:002018-10-13T19:15:50.140-07:00" Scythians, which was for the Greek a generi..." Scythians, which was for the Greek a generic name applied to any ‘barbaric’ (in their opinion) "<br /><br />Right. I recall that the Greeks believed there are only 2 types of Barbarians in the north: The Celts in the west and the Scythians in the East. No knowledge of Slavs or Germans.<br />Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67862738001298380302018-10-09T13:15:11.646-07:002018-10-09T13:15:11.646-07:00Mikkel Nørtoft said...
Yep, I'll do it soon, ... Mikkel Nørtoft said...<br /><br />Yep, I'll do it soon, but probably only the individuals that this article and YFull agree on. :)<br /><br />Thanks. Maybe you can also add this sample to your Y-Rtree[Z2109/8] from Yfull-R-Z2108Z2109/CTS1843> R-KMS67>R-Y20993*while waiting for the Scythian samples to get sorted out.<br />R-Y20993*=Sarmatian-id:YF03134 I0575, Pokrovka, EarlySarmatian_IAahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239954589937094679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90219234549907691762018-10-09T03:11:48.184-07:002018-10-09T03:11:48.184-07:00a said:
"Maybe in future you can add R1b-Z21...a said: <br />"Maybe in future you can add R1b-Z2103>Z2109+ samples from Sarmatian,Bell Beaker, Scythians to your tree."<br /><br />Yep, I'll do it soon, but probably only the individuals that this article and YFull agree on. :)Mikkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16674459030680689039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42812114592034776782018-10-08T15:01:30.177-07:002018-10-08T15:01:30.177-07:00Mikkel Nørtoft said...
We have thought a lot about...Mikkel Nørtoft said...<br />We have thought a lot about that. Since we have sort of run out of contrasting colours, and to help people that are not already into all the subclades understand the map, we have for now only distinguished the steppe-derived R1a from the R1b individuals on the map (red squares and triangles). <br />But ”for the nerds” we have also added the layer that highlights the ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239954589937094679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34003905749837593612018-10-07T08:27:11.105-07:002018-10-07T08:27:11.105-07:00a said:
"Is it possible to parse the timelin...a said: <br />"Is it possible to parse the timeline map in more detail, instead of clumping R1's all together[more colors and or symbols]? <br />For example Steppe derived R1a and R1b differ in clades, found in Europe, India, Iran etc....Example <br />1- R1b=z2103>z2106...Yamnaya,Afanasievo,Vucedol,Sarmatian,Scythian,Bell Beaker ..etc and L51+"<br /><br /><br />We have thought a Mikkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16674459030680689039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-85945556407223465402018-10-06T11:52:58.701-07:002018-10-06T11:52:58.701-07:00I actually wonder about that, whether material cul...I actually wonder about that, whether material cultural differences were starker between say, the Bronze Age peoples or Iron Age groups.<br /> <br />On the one hand, there's the scenario as you describe it, but then if I think about it, for instance, though Middle Neolithic cultures of Northern Europe were not metal users, neither were the Corded Ware. And the cultural differentiation betweenMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8380127845022618972018-10-06T07:58:03.952-07:002018-10-06T07:58:03.952-07:00@Matt
I think the most important thing to keep in...@Matt<br /><br />I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that these were Iron Age interactions between Iron Age peoples. <br /><br />It's easy to fall back into "Bronze Age" thinking where we imagine nomads with metal and horses encountering Neolithic farmers for the first time, but of course the scenario here is quite different. I'm not surprised that cultural Synomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02168979109558144980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22798868389500207062018-10-06T04:39:28.167-07:002018-10-06T04:39:28.167-07:00Reprocessing the G25 data with these samples and v...Reprocessing the G25 data with these samples and various population averages, hit on one which in which the Baltic BA vs Iberia Chl dimension pops out by PC3: https://imgur.com/a/WaGKk8V<br /><br />Still not hugely clear (lots of these samples are so admixed it inevitably ends up looking a bit like a cloud) but hopefully useful.<br /><br />Tangentially, it strikes me that these patterns are Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72399300803192324952018-10-06T04:00:45.276-07:002018-10-06T04:00:45.276-07:00Mikkel Nørtoft said...
I'm curious as to how t...Mikkel Nørtoft said...<br />I'm curious as to how the original authors and the YFull people can get Y-haplogroup calls that are so different from each other (even disagreeing on R1b/R1a assignments). <br />Did someone make a mistake somewhere, or do you have any other suggestions to explain this difference?<br /><br /> Is it possible to parse the timeline map in more detail, instead of ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239954589937094679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4122370566445933602018-10-06T03:36:55.569-07:002018-10-06T03:36:55.569-07:00Article in ‘Science Direct’:
“The genetic makings ...Article in ‘Science Direct’:<br />“The genetic makings of South Asia”by Mait Metspalu, Mayukh Mondal and Gyaneshwer Chaubey.<br /><br /><br />“ANI in turn forms when IP admixes with the incoming Middle and Late Bronze Age Steppe (Steppe_MLBA) component, (rather than the Steppe_EMBA groups suggested earlier)”<br /><br />https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959437X17301752?via%3DihubEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18468448212050966282018-10-06T01:16:05.443-07:002018-10-06T01:16:05.443-07:00These Scythians are from the western edge of the s...These Scythians are from the western edge of the steppe, so probably mostly acculturated Scythians.<br /><br />And, in fact, it looks like only three of them belong to R1b, with one being R1b-P312, which might have something to do with the contacts between Hallstatt and steppe peoples.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70645534733734040252018-10-06T00:55:16.233-07:002018-10-06T00:55:16.233-07:00With those R1bs in mind I wonder how the Scythian ...With those R1bs in mind I wonder how the Scythian Language affinities will look....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31269732768033612832018-10-06T00:17:02.834-07:002018-10-06T00:17:02.834-07:00Because Scythians were so diverse genetically the ...Because Scythians were so diverse genetically the question should be asked if all Scythians were indeed Iranians as some, for example Carlos, assume.<br /><br />A very interesting article by Constantine Borissoff<br /><br />“It is difficult to imagine that the Scythians, which was for the Greek a generic name applied to any ‘barbaric’ (in their opinion) people living north of their confines, hadEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31575275158376142432018-10-05T23:20:07.606-07:002018-10-05T23:20:07.606-07:00@All
Interestingly, the YFull Y-haplogroup assign...@All<br /><br />Interestingly, the YFull Y-haplogroup assignment for scy197 (E-V13) correlates very well with his placement in Matt's tree. He's located very close to Albanians and other Balkan groups.<br /><br />https://imgur.com/a/tY1fIuh<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27573219016922786022018-10-05T18:05:00.284-07:002018-10-05T18:05:00.284-07:00@Mikkel
I think the problem is that there's c...@Mikkel<br /><br />I think the problem is that there's currently no standard method to assign Y-haplogroups available to academic researchers that has been proven to work accurately with ancient DNA, and especially with low coverage genomes. They just seem to do their own thing each time.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50079229339789051132018-10-05T17:23:10.562-07:002018-10-05T17:23:10.562-07:00@epoch,
I1 will pop up in Scandinavia. It already...@epoch,<br /><br />I1 will pop up in Scandinavia. It already has. One I1 dating to 2200 BC, one to 1400 BC.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86982268867424955912018-10-05T16:47:13.408-07:002018-10-05T16:47:13.408-07:00@Lee Albee,
Excluding Iberia, Italy, Hungary Bell...@Lee Albee,<br /><br />Excluding Iberia, Italy, Hungary Bell Beaker. I also include Early Bronze age samples from Britain & Germany because they're probably overwhelmingly of Beaker origin.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58351253708943255152018-10-05T15:00:41.117-07:002018-10-05T15:00:41.117-07:00Davidski: I noticed that, and checked out scy009 i...Davidski: <i>I noticed that, and checked out scy009 in some detail. That's a very Polish Scythian indeed.</i><br /><br />yep, scy009 is very close to the Polish average in the dimensions tracking Baltic_BA relatedness specifically, seems a little out of scope in WHG:EEF:Steppe, hence placing closest to Polish+Avar but the long branch in clustering. <br /><br />graphically, using a Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44087390821303301472018-10-05T12:42:38.100-07:002018-10-05T12:42:38.100-07:00Mlukas has some real issues with slavic people. No...Mlukas has some real issues with slavic people. Not only here, but on Polish sites as well. Anyway, any chance od Z282 popping up among Sarmatians?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16842090286694293256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60741948337557399592018-10-05T12:16:25.110-07:002018-10-05T12:16:25.110-07:00I wonder when and where I1 will turn up. Consideri...I wonder when and where I1 will turn up. Considering its current highest diversity it will be NW Germany IIRC. epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42246403306599581202018-10-05T08:27:03.798-07:002018-10-05T08:27:03.798-07:00@Samuel Andrews
So Bell beaker--Does that include...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br />So Bell beaker--Does that include Iberia or exclude Iberia.<br /><br />It matters.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91604051820650172782018-10-05T07:58:30.453-07:002018-10-05T07:58:30.453-07:00Looks like scy009 is R1b->U152->L2. Same pa...Looks like scy009 is R1b->U152->L2. Same paternal line as myself. Maybe Davidski is on to something with his theory of slight Celtic-Scythian genetic ties in ancient times.Dude Manbrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03010560131351490423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58302109312690264622018-10-05T06:02:01.469-07:002018-10-05T06:02:01.469-07:00I'm curious as to how the original authors and...I'm curious as to how the original authors and the YFull people can get Y-haplogroup calls that are so different from each other (even disagreeing on R1b/R1a assignments). <br />Did someone make a mistake somewhere, or do you have any other suggestions to explain this difference?Mikkelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16674459030680689039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30661932554154892302018-10-05T05:43:11.881-07:002018-10-05T05:43:11.881-07:00Both CWC individuals with I2a2a (N47 and N49) were...Both CWC individuals with I2a2a (N47 and N49) were related to each other in the third order (Supplementary Table S6. Relatedness coefficients for the Corded Ware individuals.)<br />Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.com