tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5516076367643947296..comments2024-03-29T04:00:27.058-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: AmtDB: an interactive ancient human mitogenome databaseDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80345297822902007822022-03-10T20:01:03.148-08:002022-03-10T20:01:03.148-08:00My hablo is h6a1b on 23and me .also on national ge...My hablo is h6a1b on 23and me .also on national geo h6a1b4..haven't got scadanavian..French northwes <br />teurope..Scotland Norway south Italy Wales Germanic Europe western bantu congo..but shows Russian cousin..have them in almost every country ...and the add of family tree is unending .I have over 12.000 at present..I traced some back to Charlemagne .kings Shariff of Nottingham..dukes Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12224984192389863583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86231479233870796832019-10-25T09:31:39.615-07:002019-10-25T09:31:39.615-07:00H6a1b i have British Irish Scottish Welch.Italy an...H6a1b i have British Irish Scottish Welch.Italy and spain&Portuguese Greek and Balkan. Africa north.. French& German..scandavian west Asia..Quebec& NY French settlers.mesoamerican& Andean.. West africa on one test h6a1b on other h6a1b4..Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12224984192389863583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31773870365948778962018-09-30T19:36:08.310-07:002018-09-30T19:36:08.310-07:00Do you have a paper that demonstrates this? I hav...Do you have a paper that demonstrates this? I have not seen one , so would be willing to read more.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75579529514002339502018-09-29T01:41:15.913-07:002018-09-29T01:41:15.913-07:00@Samuel Andrews
Possibly H6a1 was born in the Nea...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br /><i>Possibly H6a1 was born in the Near East making it possible this H6a1 in Anatolia is not of Steppe origin.</i><br /><br />This doesn't make any sense, because the H6a1b2e in Bronze Age Anatolia is closely related to that in Northern Europe.<br /><br />The H6a1b2e in Northern Europe does not come from early European farmers or from Anatolia. It comes from the Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86151531307266896252018-09-28T22:37:20.944-07:002018-09-28T22:37:20.944-07:00@Lee Albee,
The association between H6a1 & St...@Lee Albee,<br /><br />The association between H6a1 & Steppe in ancient DNA is pretty overwhelming. For modern Europe, we basically know for a fact their H6a1 is from the Steppe. Ultimately, all of Steppe's mHG H is of 'Near Eastern' (Paleolithic Caucasus hunter gatherer?) origin. Possibly H6a1 was born in the Near East making it possible this H6a1 in Anatolia is not of Steppe Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71117828410738742292018-09-28T11:52:31.316-07:002018-09-28T11:52:31.316-07:00@ Open Genomes
Thanks for that info. Very intere...@ Open Genomes <br /><br />Thanks for that info. Very interesting.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38820830987141913352018-09-28T08:28:44.169-07:002018-09-28T08:28:44.169-07:00@Open Genomes
The presence of H6a1b in the Samara...@Open Genomes<br /><br />The presence of H6a1b in the Samara Eneolithic sample does not mean it came from the steppe.<br />The earliest found location does not origin make. <br /><br /><br /> "H6a1b2e is found today only in Ireland and Denmark" again the database your looking at is very small, and is likely very incomplete. Even if this was true, for today, it is still too thin to Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5335688063706276952018-09-27T23:18:39.315-07:002018-09-27T23:18:39.315-07:00@Lee Albee.
Yes. Thanks. @Lee Albee.<br /><br />Yes. Thanks. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10071992846144068532018-09-27T20:17:33.567-07:002018-09-27T20:17:33.567-07:00@David and everyone, please don't forget that ...@David and everyone, please don't forget that the Samara Enolithic sample I0444, R1b1a1a2a2 (Z2103*), Yamnaya Culture, Kutuluk, Samara, 3300-2700 BCE was H6a1b. <br /><br />MA2208, who died in the attack on Kalehoyuk in 1750 BCE, Y G-M406, was in fact H6a1b2e, not just H6a1b.<br /><br />H6a1b2e is found today <i>only</i> in Ireland and Denmark:<br /><a href="http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14952458102138429972018-09-27T11:52:16.560-07:002018-09-27T11:52:16.560-07:00@Samuel Andrews
Try looking at the database for m...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br />Try looking at the database for modern DNA here: https://empop.online/<br /><br />you will need to ask for permission, and it has gaps but it is really interesting for visual assessment.<br /><br />Really look to the rare mitogenomes as they will be most informative for migrations.<br /><br />It is not seen in the ancient DNA record, but the pattern for X2b possibly Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8806675084875419762018-09-26T23:20:05.805-07:002018-09-26T23:20:05.805-07:00A lot of info is waiting to be unveiled from the r...A lot of info is waiting to be unveiled from the rich ancient European mitogenome sample set we now have. I'm close to getting extremely thorough info on modern European mtDNA. After I do that, the ancient mtDNA will be easier to make sense out of. There appear to be note worthy differences between Bell Beaker & modern northwestern Europeans.<br /><br />IMO, Andronovo mtDNA might show Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15857305007036729092018-09-26T22:50:29.040-07:002018-09-26T22:50:29.040-07:00@ Chad
Maybe.
The origin of H5 becomes clearer ...@ Chad<br /><br />Maybe. <br /><br />The origin of H5 becomes clearer when we get 15 kya-10 kya H5 samples.<br /><br />According to Soares, the age estimate of H5 is 6400-16800 and the point estimate is 11500. H6 is somewhat older: 10500-20300.<br /><br />Both seem to have originated after the LGM. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71670215003901330372018-09-26T18:45:09.986-07:002018-09-26T18:45:09.986-07:00@Davidski
Or it originated in GAC/LBK like popula...@Davidski<br /><br />Or it originated in GAC/LBK like populations. Then moved west, both into anatolia and into steppe.<br /><br />Such that the minor steppe signal in one hittite is not steppe at all but shared population that fed into both??<br /><br />Another possibility <br /><br /><br />Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39744847273512151942018-09-26T09:35:09.826-07:002018-09-26T09:35:09.826-07:00LOL H5a1 here
Kristiina,
I believe Lepenski Vir ...LOL H5a1 here<br /><br />Kristiina,<br /><br />I believe Lepenski Vir was even more Anatolian-shifted than Iron Gates.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58041360134556776652018-09-26T00:45:03.285-07:002018-09-26T00:45:03.285-07:00Even in Bronze age Britain, there's more U5 th...Even in Bronze age Britain, there's more U5 than H. About twice as much U5 and half as much H in people autosomally identical to modern northern Europeans. <br /><br />IMo, this means natural selection has pushed down mtDNA U5 frequencies & erased a strong hunter gatherer signature in European mtDNA. I think there's enough samples now to be confident of this.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70767744964052434942018-09-26T00:09:29.474-07:002018-09-26T00:09:29.474-07:00Paleolithic mtDNA from southwest Asia will reveal ...Paleolithic mtDNA from southwest Asia will reveal mHG H's early history. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23290885770614197722018-09-25T22:02:29.143-07:002018-09-25T22:02:29.143-07:00@EastPole
H5 has been found in Anatolia Neolithic...@EastPole<br /><br />H5 has been found in Anatolia Neolithic but there is also H5 from Mesolithic Eneolithic transition in the Balkans: Balcan Meso-Ene transition Lepenski Vir Lepe15 c. 6000 BC H5.<br /><br />The origin of H in general is not clear.Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51493479579488758052018-09-25T20:34:07.834-07:002018-09-25T20:34:07.834-07:00@Lee Albee
Yamnaya doesn't have any ancestry ...@Lee Albee<br /><br />Yamnaya doesn't have any ancestry from Neolithic farmers from south of the Caucasus. It has farmer ancestry from Middle Neolithic European farmers, and H6a1 is missing from these and the preceding early Neolithic European farmers.<br /><br />So it's unlikely that H6a1 moved from Anatolia to the steppe, and that the H6a1b in the Hittite sample is from a lineage that Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24741788776324512982018-09-25T15:59:26.010-07:002018-09-25T15:59:26.010-07:00@Davidsky
I do not dispute that the data is trend...@Davidsky<br /><br />I do not dispute that the data is trending that way as of now. But there is insufficient data to make any definitive conclusions. It is equally possible that this haplogroup has an origin in Anatolia or the caucuses or ancient Iran and the sample has just not been found to date. Ancient DNA from the ancient near East it's still relatively thin on the ground.<br /><br />Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31657765918597436422018-09-25T15:19:11.547-07:002018-09-25T15:19:11.547-07:00Very uesful tool for mtDNA research.
I checked H5a...Very uesful tool for mtDNA research.<br />I checked H5a1 <br /><br />H5a is found in Neolithic Croatia and in Tripolye culture in Ukraine, then H5a1 pops up in CWC Estonia and in West European BB, next we find it in Karasuk culture in Russia:<br />https://i.postimg.cc/QMvmw0G0/screenshot_438.png<br /><br />H5a1 most likely originated in CWC somewhere around Poland as it is now found predominantlyEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54120649946854676442018-09-25T14:25:47.142-07:002018-09-25T14:25:47.142-07:00@Lee Albee
I don't understand your point abou...@Lee Albee<br /><br />I don't understand your point about the age of H6a1. As I see it, there's no difference here if H6a1 is 6,000 years old or 10,000 years old. Right now, with the available data, it really looks like H6a1b arrived both in Northern Europe and Anatolia during the Bronze Age with Yamnaya-related population movements.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58614792643723877582018-09-25T13:41:50.360-07:002018-09-25T13:41:50.360-07:00@Lee Albee,
You're right. H6a1b in BA Anatoli...@Lee Albee,<br /><br />You're right. H6a1b in BA Anatolia isn't a smoking gun. Butt...<br /><br />"However, H6a1 is dated to around 6764.5-10574.9 which suggests a neolithic expansion time frame. Origin could have been literally anywhere. Anatolia, Caucasus, Balkans......"<br /><br />We need more than age estimates to know when haplogroups expanded. Age estimate+phylogeography=Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36799720843322325552018-09-25T12:46:52.826-07:002018-09-25T12:46:52.826-07:00There's a lot of Mathieson 2018 data from west...There's a lot of Mathieson 2018 data from western Europe I've never seen before. They don't have the new Andronovo/Sintashta data from Narasimhan 2018 though. <br /><br />A thorough comparison could be done between Northern Bell Beaker and Andronovo anyways. That'd be cool mtDNA comparison because they represent the western and eastern ends of Bronze age IE expansions & both Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76240250947204694032018-09-25T10:29:27.568-07:002018-09-25T10:29:27.568-07:00Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43899416324713508142018-09-25T09:34:13.403-07:002018-09-25T09:34:13.403-07:00Interesting database.
Thanks for sharing it.
I se...Interesting database.<br />Thanks for sharing it.<br /><br />I see what your saying with the H6a1.<br /><br />But H6, H6a1 is not really well represented in the record. Trying to link it to the Eastern Europe as a source and Yamnya is probably a bit premature. Though it certainly could have been spread by them.<br /><br /><br />H6a1 is pretty common in Ashkenazi Jews-which definitely have near Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.com