tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5533182995159339574..comments2024-03-18T22:01:02.498-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Yamnaya-related ancestry proportions in Europe and west AsiaDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger240125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72979644984436517092019-11-03T02:27:15.198-08:002019-11-03T02:27:15.198-08:00Are these calculations still reliable? (After new ...Are these calculations still reliable? (After new datas and methods)Cpkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415788952914698806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68616917176160011512017-05-07T08:59:19.373-07:002017-05-07T08:59:19.373-07:00@Davidski
Can you please add South Asian samples...@Davidski <br /><br />Can you please add South Asian samples you have to this spreadsheet? JR97https://www.blogger.com/profile/18354156064772393511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25422888556880369122015-03-30T09:37:47.303-07:002015-03-30T09:37:47.303-07:00@ Davidski
Could you please add Belarusians and Uk...@ Davidski<br />Could you please add Belarusians and Ukrainians to the spreadsheet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16743832745120732252015-03-19T02:57:18.036-07:002015-03-19T02:57:18.036-07:00Even the K15 Atlantic component has noticeable ANE...Even the K15 Atlantic component has noticeable ANE according to TreeMix tests, and that is common in modern North Europeans but also in Sardinians and even Early/Middle Neolithics. <br /><br />However, in other calculators like K36 the neolithic farmers distinctly lack the Atlantic coast-associated components (North Atlantic and North Sea) that are especially present in Northwest Europeans who Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57760777971548343462015-03-19T01:35:44.707-07:002015-03-19T01:35:44.707-07:00Maju, I don't know much about how the Basque g...Maju, I don't know much about how the Basque genetic uniparental pool has changed over time (as we move from archaeology from people living where the Basques live to people who we can identify clearly as Basuqe) still I think those sound like pretty solid points.<br /><br />Btw, for similar formula for WHG and Near Eastern, the closest I could get were:<br /><br />K6 WHG estimate = WHG_Extra+Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4962671877149357092015-03-18T22:00:53.891-07:002015-03-18T22:00:53.891-07:00Not if you get out of R1b megalith mind. Not if you get out of R1b megalith mind. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31285195641117356532015-03-18T20:24:16.231-07:002015-03-18T20:24:16.231-07:00PS- well, the best fit for Yamna-only influence in...PS- well, the best fit for Yamna-only influence in ANE would be Sardinians, admittedly. Still fishy.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22787552976333532472015-03-18T20:22:21.142-07:002015-03-18T20:22:21.142-07:00@Matt: that's a very impressive fit, thank you...@Matt: that's a very impressive fit, thank you for the work, really. <br /><br />It would seem, judging on your work, that we are before two (main) different sources of ANE affinity: Yamna can account for ~2/3 but there is another source that is best described as Highland West Asian, accounting for ~1/3.<br /><br />Ironically the best fit for Yamna only influence are Basques. That has me veryMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56488461213759860982015-03-18T14:02:33.274-07:002015-03-18T14:02:33.274-07:00Btw, a measure of K6_ANE_estimate =(Yamnaya_Relate...Btw, a measure of K6_ANE_estimate =(Yamnaya_Related*0.32)+(Middle_Eastern*0.17) seems to give the best correlation with K8 ANE at 0.94 across the samples in common, and the average difference between them per sample is *pretty* close to 0%, median difference 1% (Basques are still around 2% wrong but its the best fit I can find).<br /><br />Slight differences are still Sardinians, early Neolithic Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75668135979273045962015-03-18T12:47:36.711-07:002015-03-18T12:47:36.711-07:00Alberto: As for that Yamnaya/ANE ratios, wouldn...Alberto: <i>As for that Yamnaya/ANE ratios, wouldn't the explanation be related to WHG/ANE ratio? Spanish and Basques are the one who have a higher WHG/ANE ratio while Caucasus/NE/Central-South Asians have the lowest. In the rest of Europe there is a good correlation between both: population with highr WHG also have higher ANE (Baltics), while population with low WHG (SE Euros) have lower ANEMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25493804951945593992015-03-18T08:35:06.641-07:002015-03-18T08:35:06.641-07:00Just an observation from this study that M269 freq...Just an observation from this study that M269 freq., Lezgins is the highest and is the one closest to Yamnaya as per Shaikorth. What about Ossets–Digor?<br /><br /><br />R1b1b2-M269<br />(supplementary fig. 1, Supplementary Material online) were<br />found in the Lezghins (30%) and in Ossets–Digor (16%).<br /><br />Parallel Evolution of Genes and Languages in the Caucasus Region<br />Balanovsky Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05963876779266935106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44372669810545680312015-03-18T06:09:48.477-07:002015-03-18T06:09:48.477-07:00Unfortunately, no. BAM files for LBKT and Starcevo...Unfortunately, no. BAM files for LBKT and Starcevo are tiny. All appropriate files have been processed now.Srkzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713038610245740489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18425710475327892912015-03-17T20:04:41.913-07:002015-03-17T20:04:41.913-07:00Sergey,
Is there any chance you can also get dece...Sergey,<br /><br />Is there any chance you can also get decent files of Starcevo_EN and LBKT_EN?<br /><br />Combining them might make a very useful early Neolithic reference for populations not in the Human Origins dataset. They're about as close as we've got now to Neolithic farmers from the Near East.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41611715313802465482015-03-17T18:26:40.081-07:002015-03-17T18:26:40.081-07:00Another possibility is that, judging on the K=16 o...Another possibility is that, judging on the K=16 of Haak et al., Yamna is expressed as a 50-50 mix of HG and what we can call "West Asian 2" (WA2, dark grayish green), which is in essence: all West Asian minus the EEF component (orange).<br /><br />In general terms both WA2 and HG (plain blue) have more ANE than the EEF component but this relation may vary and we can't measure it inMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22572897311889336742015-03-17T16:39:36.770-07:002015-03-17T16:39:36.770-07:00Yes, now I see your point.
I thought it was a sim...Yes, now I see your point.<br /><br />I thought it was a simple question of ANE/WHG ratio, but it's not so simple. As you point out, Yamnaya seems to be picking signal from extra WHG in relation to the amount of ANE.<br /><br />I really have no idea why it happens.Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86870531315375927042015-03-17T14:34:42.435-07:002015-03-17T14:34:42.435-07:00But then, Alberto, how do you explain that the Yam...But then, Alberto, how do you explain that the Yamna-ANE correlation is so varied: that some peoples (particularly SW Europeans) have clearly more Yamna fraction that should correspond to their ANE fraction? Both Yamna and EHG are high in ANE yet when we found those same components in the west (per this run by Davidski or also per Haak et al.) it seems to have "lost" a good deal of its Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70590536375462707742015-03-17T06:37:20.051-07:002015-03-17T06:37:20.051-07:00I wouldn't read it that way.
I mean, Yamnaya ...I wouldn't read it that way.<br /><br />I mean, Yamnaya does have WHG (some 35%), but it comes mostly from the EHG (who had more than 50% of it).<br /><br />So basically Europeans have WHG from 2 sources: directly from Loschbour-like people, and from Yamnaya.<br /><br />So places with very high Yamnaya admixture are closer to EHG than to Loschbour, while as Yamnaya admixture decreases, it Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-984293646943401272015-03-17T06:05:05.189-07:002015-03-17T06:05:05.189-07:00So, Chad and Alberto: do those tests say or at lea...So, Chad and Alberto: do those tests say or at least suggest that part of the Yamna component is actually Lochsbour-like (WHG)? And, for what I understand, also that Bell Beaker people of Germany had it rather than actual Yamna admixture?Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60821842341693117092015-03-17T04:45:10.697-07:002015-03-17T04:45:10.697-07:00Thanks you!
The ones that better relates to what ...Thanks you!<br /><br />The ones that better relates to what I was wondering are:<br /><br />Karelia_HG Loschbour Bell_Beaker_LN Chimp -0.0132 -2.181<br />Karelia_HG Loschbour Corded_Ware_LN Chimp 0.0185 2.998<br /><br />So Basically CW is closer to EHG than to WHG, but BB is closer to WHG than to EHG.<br /><br />So I guess it's similar with modern populations. The cut might be around Poland: Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27502598717972701182015-03-17T04:21:16.031-07:002015-03-17T04:21:16.031-07:00Matt and Alberto,
result: Karelia_HG Loschbour ...Matt and Alberto,<br /><br />result: Karelia_HG Loschbour LaBrana1 Chimp -0.1296 -16.786 13350 17325 320734 <br />result: Karelia_HG Loschbour LaBrana1 Ust_Ishim -0.1279 -14.781 12581 16270 320085 <br />result: Karelia_HG Loschbour HungaryGamba_HG Chimp -0.1181 -13.020 9930 12590 233238 <br />result: Karelia_HG Loschbour HungaryGamba_HG Ust_Ishim Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54915354644432664022015-03-17T01:48:27.291-07:002015-03-17T01:48:27.291-07:00@Matt
Yes, that drift you mention might be the ca...@Matt<br /><br />Yes, that drift you mention might be the cause, but ?d just thought that the drift was shared with the populations that descend from them. But probably f4 stats will show the expected results instead of the unexpected Fts values.<br /><br />As for that Yamnaya/ANE ratios, wouldn't the explanation be related to WHG/ANE ratio? Spanish and Basques are the one who have a higher Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18325134357154967052015-03-16T21:45:40.622-07:002015-03-16T21:45:40.622-07:00I got caught up tonight. I will try the ancient fa...I got caught up tonight. I will try the ancient farmers and such, with f4 tomorrow. Sounds interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84813453699967877022015-03-16T18:27:02.876-07:002015-03-16T18:27:02.876-07:00In the event that this "displaced {0:0}"...In the event that this "displaced {0:0}" theory is correct, I drew <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx7bO1-VAF2UUTBJa3ZmbkVoTzA/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow">this other version of the graph</a>, which suggests four cases:<br /><br />1. The Reference case, which follows the main cline and is similar, although not exactly so, to your red line.<br /><br />2. Caucasus-Zagros: Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83124088312364360062015-03-16T18:08:07.790-07:002015-03-16T18:08:07.790-07:00Erratum: "ANE for each 1 Yamna score, i.e. 1:...Erratum: "ANE for each 1 Yamna score, i.e. 1:0.04" should read "ANE for each 0.1 Yamna score, i.e. 0.1:0.04" - or maybe I should have just said: "10:4".<br /><br />Anyhow is it possible that the scores can't be considered absolute and that there's a possible "real {0,0}" to the left of the graph, in the "negative Yamna" zone, approx at theMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13880746026239808752015-03-16T18:01:59.838-07:002015-03-16T18:01:59.838-07:00@Matt: very informative graph, thank you.
I can&...@Matt: very informative graph, thank you. <br /><br />I can't but notice that your clinal line, while apparent, does not express a normalized ratio of ANE:Yamna, because this would have to drop to 0:0. I drew a few reasonable examples of such ratios in blue color <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx7bO1-VAF2UZTlvQjhIOS1hNzg/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow">in this annotated version ofMajuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com