tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6035914876406009889..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The genetic history of Ice Age Europe (Qiaomei Fu et al. 2016)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40577111663857762572019-04-12T04:39:33.977-07:002019-04-12T04:39:33.977-07:00What does the acronym WHG mean please?What does the acronym WHG mean please?Big Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794523646416025766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4372530819912816522017-07-14T22:54:51.376-07:002017-07-14T22:54:51.376-07:00There is nothing like Native American civilization...There is nothing like Native American civilizations in Europe or Asia , where Caucasians might of lived. What? Did they forget to build Amercan civilization in Europe? Stop sounding so god damned desperate!NKent805https://www.blogger.com/profile/06311041906627739245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5737604450716088782017-07-14T22:42:55.204-07:002017-07-14T22:42:55.204-07:00Their are no " Caucasian " genomes in Pr...Their are no " Caucasian " genomes in Pre-Columbian Burials. Native Americans are niether Caucasian, nor Mongoloid but Americoid. Is Q or C Ydna in Europe "Native American" genomes?NKent805https://www.blogger.com/profile/06311041906627739245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65378980969525651922016-05-04T23:10:14.201-07:002016-05-04T23:10:14.201-07:00Please note that the dating given for Villabruna (...Please note that the dating given for Villabruna ("14.000 BP") may be a bit early. Please also note that the Magdalenian and Gravettian populations - along with the mamoths and cave-bears - all disappeared during the Younger Dryas, when the coldest millennia on record swept across the northern hemisphere. <br /><br />http://www.academia.edu/3676838/batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18422593926168760032016-05-04T17:49:08.850-07:002016-05-04T17:49:08.850-07:00Yeah, the Villabruna cluster probably comes from t...Yeah, the Villabruna cluster probably comes from the Ballkan refuge.<br /><br />The reason it shows a close relationship to an Near Eastern component, is because the Balkans were joined with Anatolia until more recent times.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19063866993470944002016-05-04T17:41:16.075-07:002016-05-04T17:41:16.075-07:00re: Villabruna, I think people are getting too car...re: Villabruna, I think people are getting too carried away by the word "Italy". The site is in Belluno, close to the Slovenian and Austrian border, and basically near the northern end of the Balkans taken as a region. The refugium is question would have been the Balkans. Plus, wasn't Gioiello's prediction specific to Tuscany and environs? That's many hundreds of miles to tewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03905555876122154861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9261091830490326802016-05-04T08:38:45.652-07:002016-05-04T08:38:45.652-07:00My theory is that Y-DNA P evolved in or around Nor...My theory is that Y-DNA P evolved in or around Northern India, then diverged into R in Pakistan, and R1, R2, Q in Northern Pakistan. Then R1 split into R1a North of the Caspian and R1b South of the Caspian. <br />Then R1b developed pastoralism as part of Mehrgarh Culture, moved through Turkmenistan, Northern Iran and on to Armenia (Syunik etc), and helped form the Kura Araxes Culture, then split,pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59798441524988305762016-05-04T06:27:48.726-07:002016-05-04T06:27:48.726-07:00Thanks. I can't read Ext. Fig. 3. The crosses ...Thanks. I can't read Ext. Fig. 3. The crosses are too close to each other on the relevant charts. The PCA plot Fig. 3b shows Karitiana as closer to Goyet than Han is. Also This is consistent with Oase (the original study) being closer to Amerindians than to East Asians German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61327535969042727172016-05-03T22:27:32.970-07:002016-05-03T22:27:32.970-07:00@Chad
When - if - these genomes come available so...@Chad<br /><br />When - if - these genomes come available someone should rerun extended data table 6 with other Europeans than French. Baltics and Bosnians. Swedes and Dutch. The way Goyet-116-1 would pop up among its peers of same age would be interesting. It would also be interesting to see if Gravettians such as Vestonice 16 would give a similar signal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66583690473570620452016-05-03T22:22:06.586-07:002016-05-03T22:22:06.586-07:00@German
"They needed to include Amerindians&...@German<br /><br />"They needed to include Amerindians"<br /><br />They did. See figure 4b of the study as well as extended figure 3.<br /><br />"Goyet-116-1 is likely closer to Amerindians than to Han (just like all Europeans, ancient and modern)."<br /><br />No. See figure 4b of the study.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26912702747848667222016-05-03T20:37:28.573-07:002016-05-03T20:37:28.573-07:00@epoch2013
"So we need a gene flow from a po...@epoch2013<br /><br />"So we need a gene flow from a population on completely the other side of Eurasia, in a time when the two populations were thoroughly seperated, and we also need a gene flow into ANE to explain that *some*, but not *all* WHG show affinity to Han. Mind you, it may be only slightly above the noise, but the Aurignacian Goyet-116-1 also shows some Han affinity."<br /><German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49648367263199323012016-05-03T17:07:13.823-07:002016-05-03T17:07:13.823-07:00I'm curious if it has something to do with the...I'm curious if it has something to do with them splitting from ENAs on F ydna later than C. It would be some extra shared drift with the NO group, to the exclusion of the Aurignacian and Gravettian.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12583584907875469462016-05-03T12:11:21.237-07:002016-05-03T12:11:21.237-07:00This could also be the result of even one single u...This could also be the result of even one single unsampled group admixing into each of these populations.<br /><br />We know that the EDAR allele was present in SHG populations, and in Native Americans, and in East Asians. Some low level of gene flow must have occurred between these populations.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38755926563728822432016-05-03T10:28:50.450-07:002016-05-03T10:28:50.450-07:00Also this bothers me:
"There is no Basal Eu...Also this bothers me: <br /><br />"There is no Basal Eurasian ancestry in Kostenki 14, and instead, gene flow occurred between the ancestors of East Asians and Europeans after 14,000 years ago.<br />(Independently, there would need to be gene flow between the ancestors of East Asians and Malta1 to explain its affinities.)"<br /><br />So we need a gene flow from a population on Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80722691681363739322016-05-03T10:18:34.338-07:002016-05-03T10:18:34.338-07:00I understand the conclusion that Kostenki 14 does ...I understand the conclusion that Kostenki 14 does have Basal Eurasian admixture. However, the Seguin-Orlando had more than just D-stats. I understand the value of D-stat and the relative lower value of ADMIXTURE. However, their ADMIXTURE run as well as others clearly show a Middle-Eastern componentn in K14. Not just that, D(f3,Mbuti,X, K14) presents Sardinians as having a clear K14 signal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80030901319790161702016-05-03T09:09:22.742-07:002016-05-03T09:09:22.742-07:00@Kurti: The paper's SuppMat Section 13 states ...@Kurti: The paper's SuppMat Section 13 states clearly that the Villabruna cluster wasn't a population replacement, but resulted from an admixture event that involved at least three distinct populations.<br /><br />- The first population is anchored in Vilabruna (R1b) himself. While Vilabruna obviously incorporates novel elements of a putatively Near Eastern origin, he is nevertheless FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43805873442018871162016-05-03T07:58:32.307-07:002016-05-03T07:58:32.307-07:00'The more we find out, the less we know'.
...'The more we find out, the less we know'.<br /><br />With the unbelievably tortured and convoluted attempts to try and discern the affinities of ancient populations to the extant, all that seems to happen is that unearthing complexities just causes further complexities to be unearthed.John Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454926902513067703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90417582156365373912016-05-03T07:27:11.495-07:002016-05-03T07:27:11.495-07:00If Villabruna is Near Eastern then I'm an Aust...If Villabruna is Near Eastern then I'm an Australian Aboriginal.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34884972624061568142016-05-03T07:18:27.307-07:002016-05-03T07:18:27.307-07:00As I said in the past by Neolithic era R1 lineages...As I said in the past by Neolithic era R1 lineages have been already widespred throughout Eurasia. Mark my words we will find R1b l23 that predates Bronze Age in West Asia.<br /><br /><br />And than according to this paper WHG is not Paleolithic European but a pre Neolithic Anatolian component that replaced Paleolithic Europeans roughly 14000 BC.<br /><br />I hate to say it ( actually not :P) ButKurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39467874216729557592016-05-03T07:15:32.804-07:002016-05-03T07:15:32.804-07:00Sorry Davidski ,
what I meant was that Yamna/cord...Sorry Davidski ,<br /> what I meant was that Yamna/corded ware is a very specific cultural an demic event related to R1a and just R1a. But sort of irrelevant to most of other cultural/historical phenomenon that usually remain attached to those, we should in fact start to look for other origins/pathways. So , too much attention in the last decade to Kurgan hypothesis and Maria Gimbutas stance andOlympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55635101192253427412016-05-03T07:10:36.659-07:002016-05-03T07:10:36.659-07:00Roy King said
"So Villabruna (Northern Italy...Roy King said<br /><br />"So Villabruna (Northern Italy) circa 14K bp has Near Eastern affinities and is R1b1."<br /><br />Is that a suprise? What did I say :). Didn't I say that R1b v88 in 5500 BC Iberia with EEF aDNA is unlikely from the Steppes and probably came from a region that was close to the homeland of EEF and they catched it up there? For instance Mesopotamia or the Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53139815697190908252016-05-03T06:39:57.153-07:002016-05-03T06:39:57.153-07:00You obviously don't realize this, but you'...You obviously don't realize this, but you're not making much sense.<br /><br />For instance, it's impossible that the Corded Ware expansion was on top of R1a people for two important reasons.<br /><br />- The Corded Ware people, in fact their elites, were mostly R1a, because most burials being tested are those of elites<br /><br />- Most of the R1a in the world today is from a rapid Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-259472807364531492016-05-03T06:17:52.555-07:002016-05-03T06:17:52.555-07:00@Davidski,
*If by Mesolithic Europe you mean the ...@Davidski,<br /><br />*If by Mesolithic Europe you mean the area near Asia part of volga/Urals, then yes, probably been there since Paleolithic. <br />*Finding R1b in Paleolithic Europe is not like if the R1b existed for 15,000 years under a rock in the Volga margins or de Dnieper basin just to pop up in western Europe. Sure they were around like others.<br /><br />But, what it starts to look Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38403645984631453932016-05-03T05:50:39.899-07:002016-05-03T05:50:39.899-07:00@Krefter "The French WHGs dating 13,000-7,000...@Krefter "The French WHGs dating 13,000-7,000yo are significantly closer to LuxembourgWHG Loschbour than to Italian, Spanish, and Hungarian WHG."<br /><br />Can this be connected to some other affinity (or lack thereof)? Like to any of the older HG clusters, or to ANE, or to East Asians?Angantyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737729155560807904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37823463375948345712016-05-03T04:21:48.201-07:002016-05-03T04:21:48.201-07:00Not sure what some of you guys are puffing on this...Not sure what some of you guys are puffing on this week, but we have just seen R1b reported from Ice Age Europe. And we already know that Mesolithic Europeans carried both R1a and R1b.<br /><br />Despite that, you're taking this news to mean that R1 is not native to Europe, but to pretty much everywhere else but Europe.<br /><br />Sober up, and think about what these results really mean, not Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com