tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6110730836022123394..comments2024-03-28T17:16:03.042-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: D(Outgroup, PopTest) (Pop1, Pop2)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger183125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27964269110953627672015-08-26T06:53:01.837-07:002015-08-26T06:53:01.837-07:00For the age I mean that this culture is too young ...For the age I mean that this culture is too young for Proto-Uralic<br />Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30589953158114935572015-08-25T22:03:41.638-07:002015-08-25T22:03:41.638-07:00Yes I mean they could be Uralic speakers.
But I ...Yes I mean they could be Uralic speakers. <br /><br />But I don't think it is the homeland of Proto-Uralic. Imho neither uniparental markers and the age of culture don't fit into Proto-Uralic. <br />Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8026244540193401052015-08-25T12:23:14.462-07:002015-08-25T12:23:14.462-07:00Yes, Mezhovskaya seem to have 20-30% Siberian/Nati...Yes, Mezhovskaya seem to have 20-30% Siberian/Native American stuff and that ENA is probably similar to Ket ENA. Their yDNA’s seem to be one R1a1 and one R1b. Their mtDNA's are M12'G, J2b1a and I5c. Mezhovskaya is dated c. 1000 BC. Their area is near the northwestern corner of Kazakhstan. <br /><br />Do you mean that they could have spoken Proto-Uralic? That’s a completely new location Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25482107570766586142015-08-25T09:37:52.981-07:002015-08-25T09:37:52.981-07:00Kristiina
Have You taken a look on the Mezhovskay...Kristiina<br /><br />Have You taken a look on the Mezhovskaya culture from Allentoft?<br />What You think about that? My impression is that they had some Siberian admixture.<br /><br />Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17151558255837758682015-08-25T07:43:10.765-07:002015-08-25T07:43:10.765-07:00Kristiina,
I agree, I will of Course focus on Häkk...Kristiina,<br />I agree, I will of Course focus on Häkkinen after Blažek, aDNA can be the cornerstone without doubt.....Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48861933174281510732015-08-25T07:24:38.897-07:002015-08-25T07:24:38.897-07:00I trust much more Häkkinen than Blažek and Häkkine...I trust much more Häkkinen than Blažek and Häkkinen says that the homeland is in Volga, BUT this does not mean that Häkkinen is right. We really must wait for yDNA and autosomal results as many of the theories may rise or fall with them. New linguistic approaches would also be welcome.Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15140740932416959952015-08-25T05:28:32.164-07:002015-08-25T05:28:32.164-07:00Kristiina,
so can we say that the Uralics were at ...Kristiina,<br />so can we say that the Uralics were at the border with Siberians? east of the Urals, as Blazek says?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53884684131130008132015-08-25T00:47:25.848-07:002015-08-25T00:47:25.848-07:00Nirjhar, didn't you notice this: "The Ket...Nirjhar, didn't you notice this: "The Kets, an ethnic group in the Yenisei River basin, Russia, are considered the last nomadic hunter-gatherers of Siberia."<br /><br />"The frequencies of Y-chromosomal haplogroups in 20 Ket males in this study were also similar to those reported previously for 48 Ket individuals: more than 90% of Kets had haplogroup Q1a (of subclade Q1a2a1 as Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70503012491034947722015-08-24T23:45:20.317-07:002015-08-24T23:45:20.317-07:00Nirjhar, at the moment nobody knows the homeland. ...Nirjhar, at the moment nobody knows the homeland. As long as Uralic N1c has only been found in the Baltic fringe and N1b has not been found anywhere, it is impossible to claim that the Uralic languages came from the northern fringes of Eurasia or that they were hunter gatherers. At this specific moment, it is definitely better to wait for ancient yDNA data. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9285187043947287202015-08-24T10:16:25.482-07:002015-08-24T10:16:25.482-07:00Kristiina,
//"Hunter-gatherer populations&quo...Kristiina,<br />//"Hunter-gatherer populations": to my knowledge only hunter gatherers are Nganasans. All the rest are agriculturalists or reindeer herders and Khanty's ancestors are said to derive from the prehistoric metalworking Andronovo Culture.//<br />But he speaks of the early Uralic people.<br />//"Northern fringes": Hungary is not any northern fringe nor Estonia Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86642624170649361242015-08-24T04:58:26.042-07:002015-08-24T04:58:26.042-07:00I see that Václav Blažek's article is availabl...I see that Václav Blažek's article is available on Wiley Online Library. However, when I read the abstract I already disagree with him:<br />Abstract<br /><br />The author presents the linguistic history of the Uralic language family, comprising mainly hunter-gatherer populations on the northern fringes of Europe and western Siberia. The family also includes Finnish and Hungarian, both Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73534091991527022652015-08-23T20:19:24.206-07:002015-08-23T20:19:24.206-07:00Kristiina,
hahaha! well i agree ;), thanks a lot f...Kristiina,<br />hahaha! well i agree ;), thanks a lot for the links:).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12767753959501353972015-08-23T11:04:19.606-07:002015-08-23T11:04:19.606-07:00Probably yes,but there is however at least this: h...Probably yes,but there is however at least this: http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Review_Pagel2013.pdf<br /><br />There are several publications in Finnish and a few in English: https://tuhat.halvi.helsinki.fi/portal/en/persons/jaakko-hakkinen(6e21403c-6ff1-4ba4-a0db-d868bf394c97)/publications.html<br /><br />http://helsinki.academia.edu/JaakkoH%C3%A4kkinen<br /><br />I hope that when he is Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22116616921283588042015-08-23T10:17:07.420-07:002015-08-23T10:17:07.420-07:00Kristiina,
I have these:
http://www.elisanet.fi/al...Kristiina,<br />I have these:<br />http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/<br />http://helsinki.academia.edu/JaakkoH%C3%A4kkinen<br />I think they cover most of his works?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26147453172688792222015-08-23T09:49:59.734-07:002015-08-23T09:49:59.734-07:00Kristiina,
Thanks:), but please give me work links...Kristiina,<br />Thanks:), but please give me work links of Jaakko Häkkinen:).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-85988394889630795852015-08-23T09:34:18.721-07:002015-08-23T09:34:18.721-07:00Many articles I have read are basically lists of d...Many articles I have read are basically lists of different borrowings from here and there. There are Proto-Indo-European loanwords, Proto-Aryan loanwords, Northwest Indo-European loanwords, Tocharian loanwords, Aryan loanwords, Baltic loanwords, Germanic loanwords, Turkic loanwords, Russian loanwords etc. Only thing that many researchers want to see as genuine is this Siberian stuff such as Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19440264042287197412015-08-23T08:13:56.738-07:002015-08-23T08:13:56.738-07:00Kristiina,
Yes I want to deepen the knowledge on U...Kristiina,<br />Yes I want to deepen the knowledge on Uralic folks history, can you provide his researches or links? if they are in English and available,As i must know more on his POV.<br />About Blazeks work that i'm reading ,it is from an ebook I have bought on Kindle, "The Global Prehistory of Human<br />Migration" (Ness and Bellwood), it is not even a pdf!, you can try to Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40070350325959524322015-08-23T08:12:36.573-07:002015-08-23T08:12:36.573-07:00Hi Kristiina,
The Conception that N Iran was the p...Hi Kristiina,<br />The Conception that N Iran was the place where PIE develop was there sometime before the Underhill Update on R1a, but when it came out, we thought it goes parallel with the understanding, so we included it.<br />BMAC falls under the Indo-Iranian not PIE, to understand the concept of PIE that we consider, i gave the link before many times, which is this- http://Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10332197194290131572015-08-22T10:40:51.004-07:002015-08-22T10:40:51.004-07:00Häkkinen's analysis is very detailed and well-...Häkkinen's analysis is very detailed and well-grounded. If you are aware of a similar analysis by Blazek, please post me link. I think that we are again back on that Siberian stuff which exists in northern Uralic languages, in particular in Ob-Ugric and Samoyedic branches. Can you tell me what is Blazek's proposal for the archaelogical context of the Uralic proto-language? <br /><br />In Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78133776687744243622015-08-22T10:25:20.362-07:002015-08-22T10:25:20.362-07:00Nirjhar, I thought that you would follow Underhill...Nirjhar, I thought that you would follow Underhill as he argues that R1a arose in Iran. If PIE in your opinion developed in South Central Asia, what do you consider as its archaeological culture and timeframe (Bactria Margiana?, ca. 2300–1700 BCE). How would you explain that there is a special connection genetically and linguistically between Lithuanian and Proto-Indo-European?<br /><br />I Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50279877579216564632015-08-22T08:44:36.912-07:002015-08-22T08:44:36.912-07:00Kristiina,
I was Reading a work of Blazek and acco...Kristiina,<br />I was Reading a work of Blazek and according to him The Uralic homeland is to the east of the Urals,with a dispersion in the 4th millennium BC. The Finno-Ugric homeland is around the central and southern Urals and<br />on the upper basins of the rivers Kama, Pecora and Vycegda.<br />Before the separation of Finno-Permic from Ugric about 2400 BC, contacts with IEs already had begunNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35863217723482478822015-08-22T05:53:33.928-07:002015-08-22T05:53:33.928-07:00Kristiina,
Well there is a connection between IE a...Kristiina,<br />Well there is a connection between IE and Sumerian that can't be denied, i gave you the link for a debate, but you didn't seem interested,<br />http://new-indology.blogspot.in/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html<br />My objective is absolutely the reverse:) of what you said, i see things first and then conclude rather concluding first and then look for Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88261875771609135112015-08-22T00:42:20.610-07:002015-08-22T00:42:20.610-07:00Nirjhar, am I right that your objective is to prov...Nirjhar, am I right that your objective is to prove that Proto-Indo-European developed in the Harappan cultures which brought agriculture to India and in your model R1a1 was the lead haplogroup of that culture? You are interested in Sumerian because Sumerians were also agriculturalists and you want to prove the connection between Near Eastern and South Asian Neolithic cultures. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63380726168500429272015-08-22T00:09:11.177-07:002015-08-22T00:09:11.177-07:00Nirjhar, your problem is that you have a firm obje...Nirjhar, your problem is that you have a firm objective that you want to attain and then you try to find evidence to fit your model discarding the contradictory evidence. I think that it is better to compile evidence on the basis of some neutral principle and then see what the result suggests.Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14032136906795489932015-08-21T21:01:04.150-07:002015-08-21T21:01:04.150-07:00Kristiina,
Yes I was doing between Sumerian and IE...Kristiina,<br />Yes I was doing between Sumerian and IE (Swadesh) and got quite a few (The Actual list between Sum and IE is way bigger in case of common vocabulary).<br />Yes I don't trust all of his, they look a bit stretched, anyway, i will proceed carefully.<br />Also it appears some one considers Sumerian Uralic,Simo Parpola speaks of 1700 words connected!http://www.s155239215.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.com