tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6565466645828801989..comments2024-03-29T02:41:56.012-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: An early Iranian, obviouslyDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41571494049028795092018-07-30T07:11:28.480-07:002018-07-30T07:11:28.480-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ganesh Atanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285062976660400750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42217355728158464122018-07-29T00:46:45.300-07:002018-07-29T00:46:45.300-07:00@Wastrel
You make some useful points, but I'm...@Wastrel<br /><br />You make some useful points, but I'm pretty much convinced that DA382 was an Iranian speaker.<br /><br />On a related note, Mikkel updated his map with a new feature. Have a look at the screen cap above to see what I mean, and indeed check out the map again.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54274772908793193562018-07-26T18:18:15.893-07:002018-07-26T18:18:15.893-07:00@ Davidski
Thanks.@ Davidski <br /><br />Thanks.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89420080328334669582018-07-26T13:04:25.344-07:002018-07-26T13:04:25.344-07:00@Ric
It's the same story as with Sintashta. T...@Ric<br /><br />It's the same story as with Sintashta. These populations were either derived from Corded Ware or Sredni Stog, or both.<br /><br /><a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-mystery-of-sintashta-people.html" rel="nofollow">The mystery of the Sintashta people</a><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66293124717784102702018-07-26T07:19:07.902-07:002018-07-26T07:19:07.902-07:00@ Davidski
Can the Srubnaya likeness of DA382 be...@ Davidski <br /><br />Can the Srubnaya likeness of DA382 be traced back to the Eastward expansion of Corded Ware (Abashevo ?) ? Or is he just related to a population (Poltavka ?) who didn't migrate out of the Pontic Caspian Steppe when Corded Ware did ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-246094775108378252018-07-23T00:15:03.145-07:002018-07-23T00:15:03.145-07:00Maybe the Poltavka Culture mixed with some Abashev...Maybe the Poltavka Culture mixed with some Abashevo ? Abashevo certainly looks like the Corded Ware link ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75055316304722090462018-07-20T18:26:41.974-07:002018-07-20T18:26:41.974-07:00@Philippe
There are all sorts of theories, but An...@Philippe<br /><br />There are all sorts of theories, but Andronovo is usually described as Indo-Iranian and/or Indo-Aryan, while Srubnaya as Proto-Iranian or some type of Iranian. For instance, see here...<br /><br /><a href="https://books.google.com.au/books?id=tzU3RIV2BWIC&pg=PA541&lpg=PA541&dq=Srubna+Culture+%22Encyclopedia+of+Indo-European+Culture%22&source=bl&ots=Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19907376351992168682018-07-20T17:16:04.720-07:002018-07-20T17:16:04.720-07:00@Davidski
"Srubnaya is generally regarded to...@Davidski<br /><br />"Srubnaya is generally regarded to be the proto-Iranian archaeological culture."<br /><br />I thought that was Andronovo? Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54089618744238314422018-07-20T15:38:47.231-07:002018-07-20T15:38:47.231-07:00@Davidski, cheers for those; I didn't formulat...@Davidski, cheers for those; I didn't formulate them right for an f4 ratio I think, but I have tried to use them for estimates, and in case anyone is interested in how they correlate: https://imgur.com/a/NTxrWK6Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11422372247390516932018-07-20T15:22:27.417-07:002018-07-20T15:22:27.417-07:00@Wastrel
The Pamir languages are an areal group o...@Wastrel<br /><br /><i>The Pamir languages are an areal group of the Eastern Iranian languages, spoken by numerous people in the Pamir Mountains, primarily along the Panj River and its tributaries. <br /><br />The Ethnologue lists the Pamir languages along with Pashto as Southeastern Iranian,[7] however, according to Encyclopedia Iranica, the Pamir languages and Pashto belong to the North-EasternDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71212889472675924022018-07-20T07:59:29.794-07:002018-07-20T07:59:29.794-07:00By the way, i'm confused: on the one hand you ...<br />By the way, i'm confused: on the one hand you associate these remains with the Yaz culture, but on the other hand the paper says they're from the Zarafshan mountains. Is my geography just really terrible, or aren't the Zarafshan mountains of northern Tajikistan a very long way (relatively speaking!) from the Yaz culture of southern Turkmenistan/northeastern Iran? Is there Wastrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02668240908427382435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54476385755553870172018-07-20T07:59:19.501-07:002018-07-20T07:59:19.501-07:00Davidski: "Pamiri" isn't a language....Davidski: "Pamiri" isn't a language. It's an ethnic and geographical grouping of at least four different families of languages*. They can't be shown to be particularly closely related within Iranian. Indeed, since Wakhi seems close to the old Saka languages, and the others don't, and Saka has been suggested to be the first split from Iranian, it's likely that "Wastrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02668240908427382435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38921377924043414852018-07-20T04:50:18.234-07:002018-07-20T04:50:18.234-07:00@Matt
Here are those D-stats. But note that the I...@Matt<br /><br />Here are those D-stats. But note that the Iberian Beakers aren't divided up into "steppe" and "no_steppe" samples, because I only did that for the few individuals who made it into the Global25 datasheet. Apart from that, it should all be as requested, so let me know if I missed anything.<br /><br />https://drive.google.com/file/d/Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73371907227449444212018-07-20T02:57:16.189-07:002018-07-20T02:57:16.189-07:00@Wastrel. Avestan does share more similarities wit...@Wastrel. Avestan does share more similarities with eastern Iranian languages, when compared to languages of the western Iranian group such as Persian, or Kurdish.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16462150068915868038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49693850507989096732018-07-20T02:40:40.284-07:002018-07-20T02:40:40.284-07:00@ Matt
In a society where women mostly produced t...@ Matt<br /><br />In a society where women mostly produced the tradable goods, wouldn't it be more profitable to have many wives ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34593485515944840642018-07-20T02:21:16.147-07:002018-07-20T02:21:16.147-07:00@ Matt
Maybe Wealth was still important when nego...@ Matt<br /><br />Maybe Wealth was still important when negotiating a brideprice for their sons brides ? You could have had many sons but that helps very little if you can not help them to pay the brideprice..?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15641213775656407122018-07-20T02:00:25.776-07:002018-07-20T02:00:25.776-07:00@Davidski, off topic again, if you have a chance, ...@Davidski, off topic again, if you have a chance, and the right sets in your datasets, would you mind running the following d-stats for me?: https://pastebin.com/UrnF2949<br /><br />I want to have a quick go at estimating population replacement in Iberia in terms of the proximate source of steppe ancestry into Iberia, which is probably represented by either Beaker_Southern_France, Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-478013305064946162018-07-20T01:30:02.162-07:002018-07-20T01:30:02.162-07:00Off topic but interesting study: https://phys.org/...Off topic but interesting study: https://phys.org/news/2018-07-wealth-agricultural-populations-account-decline.html - <i>"Their main finding is that where wealth is highly concentrated, few men are wealthy enough to afford more than a single wife, and the very wealthy, while often polygynous, do not take on wives in proportion to their wealth ...<br /> <br />But the new study showed that theMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7845785271388405722018-07-20T01:24:47.296-07:002018-07-20T01:24:47.296-07:00@Samuel Andrews
It's crazy that after Narasim...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br /><i>It's crazy that after Narasimhan 2018 lots of posters here still opposed a Steppe origin for Indo-Iranian languages.</i><br /><br />I wouldn't say lots. Rather, just a few crackpots who were very loud and annoying about their denial, while the silent majority who accepted the facts said nothing.<br /><br />There are many people who come here to read the Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48789199093634776282018-07-20T00:46:39.736-07:002018-07-20T00:46:39.736-07:00Large amounts of R1a Z93 Sintashtaish ancestry in ...Large amounts of R1a Z93 Sintashtaish ancestry in early historical Iranians would be the nail in the coffin. It's crazy that after Narasimhan 2018 lots of posters here still opposed a Steppe origin for Indo-Iranian languages. They won't have much of an argument against a Steppe origin of both Iranian and Aryan languages if it is confirmed the first known Iranian-speakers were of 50% Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50600182871943717842018-07-19T16:27:17.820-07:002018-07-19T16:27:17.820-07:00@Wastrel
Pamiri is an Eastern Iranian language. A...@Wastrel<br /><br />Pamiri is an Eastern Iranian language. And even though Tajiks now speak Western Iranian, they're originally an Eastern Iranian ethnic group.<br /><br />Also, I've seen Yaz II linked to the precursors of Iranians and/or Eastern Iranians, so it depends who you believe.<br /><br />But a migration of Z93-rich proto-Eastern Iranians from that region to the east does look Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51500686258855369092018-07-19T16:13:47.854-07:002018-07-19T16:13:47.854-07:00I'm not sure it's really meaningful to des...I'm not sure it's really meaningful to describe someone living in 850BC as "Eastern Iranian". As I understand it, there are very serious questions whether "Eastern Iranian" ever actually existed at all - it seems more likely that 'northeastern' (or 'old northwestern' and 'southeastern' are two different branches off from proto-iranian, and are Wastrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02668240908427382435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8698908560806618642018-07-19T15:46:43.685-07:002018-07-19T15:46:43.685-07:00@Leucuuo
There is onomastic evidence linking both...@Leucuuo<br /><br /><i>There is onomastic evidence linking both the Dahae and Massagetae to Balkan IE peoples with similar names, i.e. the Dacians and Getae.</i><br /><br />Yeah, I know, but that's not very plausible.<br /><br />There's a reason why this sample is so close to Tajiks, and why the Scythians, Saka and Eastern Iranians carry so much R1a-Z93 (even as much as 80% in some Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43980132971789962842018-07-19T15:05:18.164-07:002018-07-19T15:05:18.164-07:00@rozenfag
Why have you denoted him as Zarafshan_I...@rozenfag<br /><br /><i>Why have you denoted him as Zarafshan_IA? He is not found anywhere close to Zarafshan.</i><br /><br />That's what he's called in the dataset. And the paper says that his burial is in the Zarafshan Mountains. See page 5...<br /><br /><i>Interestingly, for two northern groups, the only tested model we could not reject included the Iron Age (~900 to 200 BCE) Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18510564198352582642018-07-19T14:48:42.783-07:002018-07-19T14:48:42.783-07:00Cool how the small shadows that are lighted with h...Cool how the small shadows that are lighted with homeland.ku.dk timescale map.<br />Great new tool. I'd be interested to see something similar with just Beakers. Probably a useless shotgun blast, but who knows, visual depiction is pretty powerful.<br /> bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.com