tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post674610939969228775..comments2024-03-28T06:30:18.217-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Map of pre-Corded Ware culture (>2900 BCE) instances of Y-haplogroup R1a (updated)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger230125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5483351101843760382019-04-24T17:22:05.721-07:002019-04-24T17:22:05.721-07:00@Simon
The Y-haplogroup for SA6013.B0101 in the r...@Simon<br /><br />The Y-haplogroup for SA6013.B0101 in the relevant paper, Wang et al. 2019, is listed as R1. See here...<br /><br />https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-08220-8/MediaObjects/41467_2018_8220_MOESM4_ESM.xlsx<br /><br />It's possible that he does belong to R1a, but I've chosen to base my map on unambiguous results reported in the relevant papersDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79659702198219194912019-04-09T20:50:53.873-07:002019-04-09T20:50:53.873-07:00@Kenneth
Ancestry tests aren't the topic of t...@Kenneth<br /><br />Ancestry tests aren't the topic of this thread. If you'd like to discuss GEDmatch tests and your results then try this forum...<br /><br />https://anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?22-Autosomal-(auDNA)<br /><br />Ancestry tests offered as part of this blog aren't at GEDMatch. They're described in a variety of posts at this blog as well as here...<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88544430886801242582019-04-06T03:49:08.282-07:002019-04-06T03:49:08.282-07:00@ Dragos, I'm Diego. And yes, we are celebrati...@ Dragos, I'm Diego. And yes, we are celebrating that Spain is one of the best studied countries genetically speaking (although there are hundreds of deposits to be analyzed). We find interesting that more and more linguists can use Basque to understand the Iberian, so it seems that Vasco-Iberianism is probably the best solution to explain our issue with languages.<br /><br />L51/P311 may be Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86520124897267287662019-04-06T03:16:02.703-07:002019-04-06T03:16:02.703-07:00@ Zardos
''In other places the LBK manage...@ Zardos<br /><br />''In other places the LBK managed to get rid of local HG populations which might have raided them''<br /><br />Here, the case seems to have been that simply there were not many HGs around, which were concentrated further north. <br /><br />''Unetice might be one of the first cultures in Europe North of the Alps for which the exclusive male lineage was Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20350153412464193292019-04-06T02:40:40.588-07:002019-04-06T02:40:40.588-07:00@ Gaska
Whilst you are correct that the idea that...@ Gaska<br /><br />Whilst you are correct that the idea that P312/L51 being the ''original'' vector of IE into Europe is clearly problematic, it does not mean that it came from Western Europe. Western Europe is now the best sampled region in the world, at not a single reliable P312 has come through before the BB period, after which it appears to rapidly appear from far & wide Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83256044924015778262019-04-06T01:59:16.132-07:002019-04-06T01:59:16.132-07:00@Dragos I have already sent you the data, in the s...@Dragos I have already sent you the data, in the site of Humanejos there are tombs of P312 and I2a side by side and contemporary. I don't know why everyone is engaged in a violent conquest and I don't know where you see violence. The cases of skeletons with war wounds are relatively frequent throughout Europe since the Neolithic, but they are always a minority. <br /><br />For us it is Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37981003309221917452019-04-05T23:33:25.596-07:002019-04-05T23:33:25.596-07:00@ Gaska
You had stated that '' Frank is r...@ Gaska<br /><br />You had stated that '' Frank is right, all burials are related to the BB culture, i2a men are buried in tombs next to men R1b-P312 with the same type of grave goods. There are no distinctions between them, that is, they were all BBs. The conquests are far from the archeological reality”''<br /><br />Then you provide the following case:<br /><br />I0460/Roy3/Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4456313112904322412019-04-05T12:48:00.429-07:002019-04-05T12:48:00.429-07:00@Frank: "I agree - albeit the extent to which...@Frank: "I agree - albeit the extent to which non-state like, tribal groups are able to effect an yDNA shift beyond the local scale may be questionned."<br /><br />Not really. Before we had modern yDNA, it could have been questioned, but since we got it, no longer. After we the first ancient DNA results came in, there can be no doubt at all, because the vast majority of cultural zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28925994813549657362019-04-05T11:49:47.264-07:002019-04-05T11:49:47.264-07:00For all of you who are now concerned about the iss...For all of you who are now concerned about the issue of the language of the BBs, remember that not only is the Iberian problem (Basque, Iberian and Tartessian-R1b), but throughout the south of France were spoken non-Indo-European languages- <br /><br />Western Pyrenees, the Aquitanian that reached the Garonne River<br />Eastern Pyrenees, the Iberian Language that reached the Rhone river, in fact Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34143354035151537452019-04-05T11:41:09.306-07:002019-04-05T11:41:09.306-07:00It is a bit boring repeating once and again the sa...It is a bit boring repeating once and again the same thing. Los Millares culture was one of the most advanced cultures in chalcolitic Iberia. Thats why its so important to know how it came to an end. Well all Los Millares settlements were destroyed and set on fire by someone, abruptly and violently. Then el Argar started. There was no soft transition, no continuity. Both cultures were completely Urkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028837890469244949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47772102805867698252019-04-05T11:31:44.482-07:002019-04-05T11:31:44.482-07:00It is a bit boring repeating once and again the sa...It is a bit boring repeating once and again the same thing. Los Millares culture was one of the most advanced cultures in chalcolitic Iberia. Thats why its so important to know how it came to an end. Well, all Los Millares settlements were abruptly and violently destroyed and set on fire by someone. And then El Argar started. This has nothing to do with the climatic event. There is no continuityUrkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028837890469244949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61291169983460607312019-04-05T11:20:05.773-07:002019-04-05T11:20:05.773-07:00It is a bit boring repeating once and again the sa...It is a bit boring repeating once and again the same thing. Los Millares was one of the most developed cultures in chalcolitic Iberia. The 4.2 event may have weakened and altered it. But all Los Millares settlements were destroyed and set on fire by someoneUrkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028837890469244949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19947254206532849322019-04-05T11:13:43.596-07:002019-04-05T11:13:43.596-07:00Los Millares culture was one of the most advanced ...Los Millares culture was one of the most advanced in chalcolitic Iberia. So it is important to know how and why it came to an end. The 4.2 event may have weakened it. But it is a bit boring to have to repeat that Los Millares dissapeared abruptly, suddenly and violently. All Los Millares settlements were destroyed and set on fire by someone and then replaced by El Argar. This has nothing to do Urkihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028837890469244949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20493336300730256392019-04-05T11:09:13.401-07:002019-04-05T11:09:13.401-07:00Zardos: "The change came with states which pr...Zardos: "<i>The change came with states which preferred to "convert" and tax people from above, but letting them live as workforce.</i>"<br /><br />I agree - albeit the extent to which non-state like, tribal groups are able to effect an yDNA shift beyond the local scale may be questionned.<br /><br />The funny thing, now, is that for all we know, El Argar was a state. It FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51499249997282753022019-04-05T10:52:37.062-07:002019-04-05T10:52:37.062-07:00Romans did settle veterans and they did found sett...Romans did settle veterans and they did found settlements indeed, but that was a longer term process and presumably didn't affect all regions the same way. The impact seems to have significant in Iberia accourding to the recent study, yes. <br />Remind you however on the Greek colony in which you could find Celtic people among its inhabitants and we know from many settlements of Greeks and zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55925643171878759642019-04-05T09:14:36.507-07:002019-04-05T09:14:36.507-07:00@ Zardos
Carthaginians & Co. were urban peop...@ Zardos<br /><br /><i> Carthaginians & Co. were urban people, but cities were quite often like islands in a sea of other peopler at that time. If the city dwellers were themselves conquered, they usually completely vanished. </i><br /><br />From Olalde et al: "The impact of mobility from the central/eastern Mediterranean during the Classical period is also evident in 10 individuals fromANI EXCAVATORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13159481900489133715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64028309540053848122019-04-05T08:03:15.441-07:002019-04-05T08:03:15.441-07:00@ Zardos
Yes, possibly, but an Army on the move ...@ Zardos <br /><br />Yes, possibly, but an Army on the move could leave their DNA behind in the territory they moved through without the biological father staying behind. The father moves with his language and the mother stays behind with her language and the father's DNA....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58114191929391862552019-04-05T07:51:26.796-07:002019-04-05T07:51:26.796-07:00@Ric: Carthaginians & Co. were urban people, b...@Ric: Carthaginians & Co. were urban people, but cities were quite often like islands in a sea of other peopler at that time. If the city dwellers were themselves conquered, they usually completely vanished. <br />BB in Iberia on the other hand moved through the land and took both the countryside and the cities. So did Celts. But not Carthaginians, Greeks and Romans to the same extend.zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75393011571716656212019-04-05T07:50:48.841-07:002019-04-05T07:50:48.841-07:00@ Gaska
I'm just throwing ideas out there. I...@ Gaska <br /><br />I'm just throwing ideas out there. I'm not banking on any specifically. Anything from Acquiring High Status through marriage with Cattle as Brideprice, Fosterage, or a Military Campaign without any longterm goals etc. etc. Many possibilities.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40145246233516206962019-04-05T07:43:10.057-07:002019-04-05T07:43:10.057-07:00Apparently Gaulish survived until the 6th century ...Apparently Gaulish survived until the 6th century in some parts of France. That is about +-600 years after the initial Conquest by the Romans started. So it all depends on the objectives of the Conqueror and if social and economic pressures were constantly applied. If there were no collective vision of what should happen after a Campaign (Maybe including raping and looting on the way to the Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77507213265958450272019-04-05T07:35:34.916-07:002019-04-05T07:35:34.916-07:00Ric, all the explanations we can find are valid, a...Ric, all the explanations we can find are valid, anything could have happened. All of you are looking for explanations that fit with a theory that you have accepted previously. So if you are happy with that explanation then congratulations. Nobody is going to convince you otherwise. Only ancient dna can help us to solve the problem.<br />Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52029153023926278042019-04-05T06:49:51.143-07:002019-04-05T06:49:51.143-07:00Did the Carthaginians leave a trail through Southe...Did the Carthaginians leave a trail through Southern France and the Alps on their way to conquer Italy ? Did Romans immediately during Julius Caesars Campaign through Gaul force the Gauls to speak Latin, or were they Romanized gradually after the initial Conquest ? If an Armies initial goal was not to Settle everywhere but to crush potential threats throughout a new territory and only settle in Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35149495402020774272019-04-05T06:34:42.477-07:002019-04-05T06:34:42.477-07:00@zardos-I suppose you are right, we would do the s...@zardos-I suppose you are right, we would do the same if we were in their situation. The migrants quickly learn the advantages of the Welfare State in Europe, and also the political advantages granted by their status as economic migrants. The same happens in international relations between states and in the discourse that many indigenous politicians use to capture support in their countries. I Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35937615748972334012019-04-05T05:57:14.798-07:002019-04-05T05:57:14.798-07:00Most non-Europeans know that very well and there i...Most non-Europeans know that very well and there is no need for an explanation. Its just when those non-Europeans get educated by modern, politically correct and postcolonial environments, they start what you described.<br />Its normal for people that they want to feel superiour and to have an advantage in the face of others.<br />Europeans are so used to the Christian guilt, shame and repentencezardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65187303959095837682019-04-05T05:46:04.956-07:002019-04-05T05:46:04.956-07:00@Davidski
"But this doesn't preclude Aqu...@Davidski<br /><br />"<i>But this doesn't preclude Aquitanian and/or Iberian from being derived from a Beaker language.<br /><br />For instance, if Aquitanian and Iberian aren't closely related, then it's possible that Beakers brought the ancestral language to one or the other, rather than both, and one would be either a fluke survival or a later introduction into Iberia. The epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.com