tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6918391137554864802..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Two early Slavs from BohemiaDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45969544139785479812017-05-31T22:00:16.101-07:002017-05-31T22:00:16.101-07:00People tend to forget that R1a-M458 (which is a ty...People tend to forget that R1a-M458 (which is a typical West Slavic subclade, dominating in Poland, can be found also among other Slavs, even in modern East Germany, which isn't suprising considering East Germany and even part of Denmark was populated by West Slavic people) came to this region in 2800BC with Corded Ware, so that's before any Germanic or Slavic people. <br />The Johnny3Batonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10560750751124341003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57255772999349984622017-05-23T03:42:56.245-07:002017-05-23T03:42:56.245-07:00RISE568 and RISE569 in DoHA
https://4.bp.blogspot....RISE568 and RISE569 in DoHA<br />https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uVl60nzA2i0/WSQR0AUGHUI/AAAAAAAAAKs/ZEMWOh1cQLgLBZcCIghuyofQvopzOQi_ACLcB/s1600/568569DoHA.pngArzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70801836014238051472017-05-23T03:03:08.324-07:002017-05-23T03:03:08.324-07:00@ Alogo
They did. As I said, they are using langua...@ Alogo<br />They did. As I said, they are using languages with obscure history to justify creation of new PIE roots that magically survived only in Germanic and Albanian/Armenian/Celtic. So if you feed the algorithms with data fabricated this way it's not a surprise that Germanic lands in one branch with Albanian.<br /><br />Don't you find ridiculous that they used several Germanic Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36716202396094501772017-05-22T23:47:29.235-07:002017-05-22T23:47:29.235-07:00@Alogo
History written by NSDAP-professors of ling...@Alogo<br />History written by NSDAP-professors of linguistics, archeology and anthropology is being debunked by genetics right now. Just accept it and live with it.<br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1673324937938961432017-05-22T06:14:42.049-07:002017-05-22T06:14:42.049-07:00They didn't "stick Albanian under Germani...They didn't "stick Albanian under Germanic to make Germanic look older". Read the paper if you're interested: https://www.cs.rice.edu/~nakhleh/CPHL/RWT02.pdf<br /><br />The complaint about Albanian in that review is about the reviewer's dislike of Beekes writing a separate section on deriving Albanian instead of a language that's more useful for the reconstruction of PIEAlogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311735856824330486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4385266845799860772017-05-22T04:20:41.574-07:002017-05-22T04:20:41.574-07:00@Arza
“Here you can see how they are trying to ma...@Arza <br />“Here you can see how they are trying to make Germanic look older (and diverted from Balto-Slavic) by sticking it to Albanian. They think that history and etymologies in Albanian are so obscure, that no one ever will be able to prove that they manipulate with the data”. <br /><br /><br />R. Beeks tried to derive Albanian from PIE. Here are comments to his book:<br /><br />https://EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56012927237734838562017-05-22T02:50:20.192-07:002017-05-22T02:50:20.192-07:00@ Nirjhar007
What I'm arguing here is that eve...@ Nirjhar007<br />What I'm arguing here is that even if we don't have certain samples, we still have them - encoded in all other samples that share ancestry. That's why those two Slavs are not "errors", nor "Germanics", like some people try to imply.<br /><br />@ EastPole<br />There was no Hittite-Germanic.<br />They can keep improving the algorithms, but if they Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39166721608535239652017-05-21T23:46:09.865-07:002017-05-21T23:46:09.865-07:00Nirjhar007
“their PIE proposal was also a suggest...Nirjhar007 <br />“their PIE proposal was also a suggestion but it made more sense”<br /><br />I wonder what they mean by PIE in such case.<br /><br />Original Indo-Slavonic language, culture, religion didn’t originate in Iran. No doubt about it.<br /><br />For example Indo-Slavonic people didn’t drink wine. It didn’t grow in the north.<br />Vedic, Slavic and Greek religions were similar, Soma/EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69828676920361651932017-05-21T20:27:24.675-07:002017-05-21T20:27:24.675-07:00Without samples the suggestions are not permanent ...Without samples the suggestions are not permanent or of any proper value , their PIE proposal was also a suggestion but it made more sense.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58222100353903506952017-05-21T10:31:20.421-07:002017-05-21T10:31:20.421-07:00They didn't have to... everything is encoded i...They didn't have to... everything is encoded in all other Indian samples. That's the point.Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38061405379186116822017-05-21T10:00:18.174-07:002017-05-21T10:00:18.174-07:00They were not based on any samples dude....They were not based on any samples dude....Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48437678497219119242017-05-21T09:19:36.119-07:002017-05-21T09:19:36.119-07:00This is what I'm talking about:
https://2.bp....This is what I'm talking about:<br /><br />https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aZ4cGCZ1XS0/WSG9BcWZQxI/AAAAAAAAAKE/T6YjY719HNs5sNWJ_-81NQLYlq8YPz0jQCLcB/s1600/ANIASI2.png<br /><br />ASI was a part of Austroasiatic cline.<br />Austroasiatic cline and main Indian cline do not cross.<br /><b>~15% Iran Neolithic</b> admixture is needed to produce ANI from ASI and connect the clines.<br />Pulliyar is the Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53060038817977511232017-05-21T08:31:50.974-07:002017-05-21T08:31:50.974-07:00@EastPole
There's no reason words in a natura...@EastPole<br /><br />There's no reason words in a natural language should have synchronic etymologies. capra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15094602733651114202017-05-21T04:21:30.854-07:002017-05-21T04:21:30.854-07:00@ Nick Patterson (Broad)
a) Outlier might be of r...<b>@ Nick Patterson (Broad)</b><br /><i>a) Outlier might be of real interest<br />b) Or the sample has an atypical history<br />c) Or something is wrong.<br /><br />Often hard to tell.</i><br /><br />It's not that hard IMHO. We can easily spot if it is the first case. How? We can detect "outlier ancestry" in other samples. Just like Srubnaya Outlier is picked up as ancestral to Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61628191699373535352017-05-21T01:57:28.641-07:002017-05-21T01:57:28.641-07:00@Nirjhar007
“About Ashva you don't agree wit...@Nirjhar007 <br /><br />“About Ashva you don't agree with this traditional etymology?.<br />https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/lex/master/0461”<br /><br />How can I agree or disagree with traditional etymology of Ashva when no such etymology exists?<br />What is the etymology of Ashva according to them? What are the roots, affixes and what do they mean?<br /><br />The main reason why I think PIE is a EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46919868427623860882017-05-21T01:23:03.390-07:002017-05-21T01:23:03.390-07:00If we roughly take Arya as the Identity of Indo-Ir...If we roughly take Arya as the Identity of Indo-Iranians at whole, then it is at least 4000 years old , but its quite likely that this word is of more wider origin and also comprehensive , see here : <br />http://new-indology.blogspot.in/2017/01/the-term-aryan-and-its-semitic-cognates.html <br /><br />We don't have that facility in case of Slav brothers . <br /><br />About Ashva you don'tNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88579470239397596262017-05-21T01:01:27.960-07:002017-05-21T01:01:27.960-07:00@Nirjhar007
‘Slavic identity didn't exist the...@Nirjhar007 <br />‘Slavic identity didn't exist then’<br /><br />I don’t understand your theory about Slavic identity. Indo-Iranian identity is much, much younger, it was invented in XIX century. Proto-Indo-European identity is also very young and probably a hoax. So what?<br /><br />Sk. Arya is probably related to Slavic roots “ri-/ori-/ari-“ it can mean “eagle, excellent man, something EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50653778490055377422017-05-20T20:41:37.158-07:002017-05-20T20:41:37.158-07:00My Dear Shrava brother ;),
I understand you are ...My Dear Shrava brother ;),<br /><br />I understand you are 'Slavo-Centrist' .And let me tell you and others that I will have no problems, if it gets proven that the Ancestors of Aryas , came from where you suggest!. But you see for Slav , the Earliest trustworthy or dependable archaeological and cultural traits comes from Ukraine IINW from ~2000 YBP , and here you are suggesting that CWCNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27388364776399537962017-05-20T14:51:48.978-07:002017-05-20T14:51:48.978-07:00@Nirjhar007
“But again RV is a North Indian liter...@Nirjhar007 <br />“But again RV is a North Indian literature of Early to middle 2nd millennium BC”<br /><br />Yes, RV is a North Indian literature, I know it. Great North Indian religious poetry. A treasure few people can really appreciate.<br />At the same time it is the oldest religious poetry written in Indo-European language and according to specialists it contains many common IE elements.<brEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59025062460435039162017-05-20T09:51:24.045-07:002017-05-20T09:51:24.045-07:00EastPole , Yes Shrava and Slav are cognates , Bhur...EastPole , Yes Shrava and Slav are cognates , Bhurishrava and Boleslav can also be cognates . <br /><br />But again RV is a North Indian literature of Early to middle 2nd millennium BC mostly and if it depicts ''Slavs'' ( It don''t actually , this is a common inheritance word ) then they actually came from India! :). RV also attests the L as you see in Lohita,Sloka etc .<Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5781641776202797662017-05-20T08:15:31.137-07:002017-05-20T08:15:31.137-07:00I'll recommend Gołąb's 'The Origin of ...I'll recommend Gołąb's 'The Origin of the Slavs' again, since he was a Polish linguist after all, for some of the interesting opinions above.<br /><br />Sam, maybe I misunderstood your point, but we wouldn't be looking at a PCA to determine 'ethnicity' in the first place, no? Even if the two can highly correlate, especially in the past and in more bounded communities, Alogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311735856824330486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24471061878655047162017-05-20T08:03:49.519-07:002017-05-20T08:03:49.519-07:00@East Pole, I don't want to be silly. But you ...@East Pole, I don't want to be silly. But you consider possibility of:<br />a)Indo-Aryan influnece on proto-Slav (geographic proximity is obvious)<br />b)Common east PIE roots for both Indo-Aryan and Slav (or Balto-Slav)<br /><br />Similarity to Slavic languages doesn't mean that always Slavs were first in the chain, not the opposite...Lukaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08133163538438260772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18760434041309144162017-05-20T07:26:41.130-07:002017-05-20T07:26:41.130-07:00@Twasztar
“Don't know how old exactly, but fo...@Twasztar <br />“Don't know how old exactly, but for sure Slavonic language/culture is at least as old as its equivalent brother branch i.e. Indo-Iranian. This is obvious for everyone who has any actual knowledge about Slavonic languages. The word "Slav" itself is attested in over 3000 years old Sanskrit language”<br /><br />Your nick which is the name of Rigvedic god Tvaṣṭṛ has EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17978802667828366862017-05-20T04:57:36.642-07:002017-05-20T04:57:36.642-07:00Eurogenes K13 PCA with Czech and Slovak samples, w...Eurogenes K13 PCA with Czech and Slovak samples, west vs. east.<br />http://jpeg.cz/images/2017/05/20/zknO.png<br />Czechs definitely have some RISE577-like northwestern ancestry, not only Slavic. I think RISE569 is mixed Slav/Celto-Germanic (more Germanic than Celtic).Szkxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05974336410356218405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26912436129042782152017-05-20T04:51:46.137-07:002017-05-20T04:51:46.137-07:00@Eastpole: I spoke more specifically about Czech a...@Eastpole: I spoke more specifically about Czech and Hungarian in particular. In Hungary any estimate based on German surnames must be too low, because many changed their name to the Magyar version. And in Czechs its also a clear cut thing, even though you are right that some Czechs were given German names by the administration. About Poles I'm not as sure.zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.com