tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6952329343044810592..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Kets are rich in Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) ancestryDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger199125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37514605978471040022018-11-19T15:56:14.383-08:002018-11-19T15:56:14.383-08:00"You should know full well that WHG increases..."You should know full well that WHG increases affinity to ANE, while SSA and ASI dampen it."<br /><br />Not true, ASI increases affinity to ANE depending on proportions. All attempts to cluster ANE show a significant genetic relatedness to ASI, but mostly to west Eurasian. <br /><br />Modern euros are like, 90% Western and 2% Indian. Assuming all this Indian is from ANE, and that ANEAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17712285884692529712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12369592061221443902015-08-28T11:55:28.717-07:002015-08-28T11:55:28.717-07:00Somewhat off-topic, but I'm interested in read...Somewhat off-topic, but I'm interested in reading fellow commentators' views (particularly Nirjhar and German's) regarding the Bangani language (if you have any opinions). Looks like it's still an unresolved topic among linguists.<br /><br />For unaware readers, it's a northern Indian (Indo-Aryan) language with a layer of seemingly Indo-European Centum words.DMXXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16689998564656086919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72266988302432263922015-08-26T05:39:10.309-07:002015-08-26T05:39:10.309-07:00@Nirjhar
Thanks for all of your thoughts and crit...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Thanks for all of your thoughts and critical remarks. Some good stuff there! Just short comment to close it off:<br /><br />"And that the p was lost, even if aspirated, there is no proof of it out of Celtic and Armenian."<br /><br />Arm has hawran 'herd' and hoviw 'shepherd', both with h-, which can be from both p- and H2. Celtic never has h- as a German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58113729693890521242015-08-26T00:51:01.573-07:002015-08-26T00:51:01.573-07:00@German
"Will this make Indo-Europeans a pos...@German<br /><br />"Will this make Indo-Europeans a post-Yamnaya, R1a-dominant population that admixed with R1b populations in different areas of West Eurasia"<br /><br />Who knows. Disagreement on R1b is rampant. <br /><br />In Davidski's first "Smarter than the average bear" graphic, there are indications of this north-south difference, but it is only that graphic. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40839827224129264292015-08-25T21:00:03.254-07:002015-08-25T21:00:03.254-07:00Hi German!,
I try to be short. From Today I will b...Hi German!,<br />I try to be short. From Today I will be around to visit a place for 15 days, so probably will not have time to reply in this beautiful discussion :).<br />About subjectivity, when you try to reconstruct the meaning is not avoidable because you have to guess.<br />This is a common problem in historical 'sciences'. About formal changes, we can reduce arbitrary subjectivityNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83281030900671316782015-08-25T13:18:28.103-07:002015-08-25T13:18:28.103-07:00@Kristiina
"I have also been thinking about ...@Kristiina<br /><br />"I have also been thinking about R1b and Yamnaya, and I have been considering the possibility that their language was more Basque like and not really IE"<br /><br />That's indeed a possibility. Will this make Indo-Europeans a post-Yamnaya, R1a-dominant population that admixed with R1b populations in different areas of West Eurasia?German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9244926790418994122015-08-25T12:41:42.612-07:002015-08-25T12:41:42.612-07:00@German
"The linguistic connection between U...@German<br /><br />"The linguistic connection between Uralic and IE makes a lot of sense of so many levels but so far a few pieces of the puzzle are still missing."<br /><br />Maybe I will prove it. :-)<br /><br />I agree with you on p-lessness now that I have made these comparisons. It is a good idea. Archaic features tend to be found in the fringe areas.<br /><br />I have also been Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25453323149187267082015-08-25T09:34:47.696-07:002015-08-25T09:34:47.696-07:00@Nirjhar
"The aspiration of p is found in IE...@Nirjhar<br /><br />"The aspiration of p is found in IE only in Armenian and Celtic as far as I know, <br />so I suspect some connection between the two... and R1b can be considered in this context, <br />what do you think?:)."<br /><br />As you have noticed, I disagree with the way historical linguists analyze linguistic evidence. I suspect the picture they've painted (including German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34283474839569842682015-08-25T08:10:11.464-07:002015-08-25T08:10:11.464-07:00@Nirjhar
Unfortunately, traditional historical li...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Unfortunately, traditional historical linguistics leaves a lot of room for subjectivity. For me, the connection between lungs and flotation is highly fanciful. The connection between lungs and buttocks (and between *pleu- 'swim, float' and *leuH2- 'wash, flow'), on the other hand, is quite logical (lungs and buttocks are body parts, pleu- and leuH2 are verbs German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61901323082888502072015-08-25T06:19:46.319-07:002015-08-25T06:19:46.319-07:00German,
you have a lively linguistic imagination b...German,<br />you have a lively linguistic imagination but that kind of imagination :)<br />is one of the big dangers in linguistic research. It's nice to try new hypothesis,<br />but with some measure. <br />About hoviw, there is also Skt. avi- 'sheep'. Also Toch. B awi 'female sheep'. hawi is not<br />Hittite but Luwian. So, it is a specific root for sheep.<br />I don't Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17890513324592164282015-08-25T05:50:33.076-07:002015-08-25T05:50:33.076-07:00Ah, I forgot On Slavic root *poltьno,maybe it'...Ah, I forgot On Slavic root *poltьno,maybe it's related to pal, but maybe its the root of prthu, platys in Greek, 'wide', flat I think in Germanic.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62708110774415204452015-08-25T05:11:06.475-07:002015-08-25T05:11:06.475-07:00Let me guess, IE substratum in Finnic?.Let me guess, IE substratum in Finnic?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16635689062856287322015-08-24T23:57:42.108-07:002015-08-24T23:57:42.108-07:00@German
Yes, I think it is really worth the effort...@German<br />Yes, I think it is really worth the effort as we know that Finland was part of Corded Ware culture and there is really a very high amount of battle axes found in Finland, including northern part of the country.<br />(http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/corded_ware_culture.shtml) <br /><br />Moreover, Davidski has shown that Finns and in particular Saamis are genetically close to ancientKristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50763846443655718252015-08-24T21:48:00.129-07:002015-08-24T21:48:00.129-07:00Hi Kristiina,
oops! i meant the pal here-
http://...Hi Kristiina, <br />oops! i meant the pal here-<br />http://new-indology.blogspot.in/2015/05/sumerian-and-indo-european-surprising.html<br />Sorry not for being specific, anyway, we tried to create an ancient Fashion there;).<br />Hi German,<br />I give more thoughts on some:<br />The couples you have found are very nice, but semantically I do not see a close link between buttocks and lungs,<br /Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35044381785934479712015-08-24T14:34:27.944-07:002015-08-24T14:34:27.944-07:00@Rokus
"At least the male elite of Yamnaya s...@Rokus<br /><br />"At least the male elite of Yamnaya society were the exclusively carriers of R1b(xL51), what rules them out as the elite that also dominated roughly related cultures credited for being ancestral to probably all IE cultures except Armenians. To assume that R1a and R1b-L51 should have originated from the lower echelons of Yamnaya society violate both the available evidence Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39403399347538628162015-08-24T14:04:33.626-07:002015-08-24T14:04:33.626-07:00@Nirjhar
"Like In Armenian there is hoviw &#...@Nirjhar<br /><br />"Like In Armenian there is hoviw 'shepherd', corresponding to Luwian hawi 'sheep'.."<br /><br />Thinking about another IE root, namely *peH2s- 'protect' (Hitt pahs, Lat pa:sco:, pa:stor, Gk poime:n, Lith piemuo 'shepherd' (sheep and shepherd is a natural semantic pair), Gk pou 'flock of sheep'), it seem to be pretty compatible German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62636852797352176122015-08-24T11:28:30.830-07:002015-08-24T11:28:30.830-07:00German, I see that you explain the IE side of the ...German, I see that you explain the IE side of the root pel- on your blog. <br /><br />However, now that the autosomal analyses have shown that IE languages were spoken by people who had Eurasian hg roots, Caucasian/Teal roots and Neolithic farmer roots, my current view is that all these components should be found in IE languages and not only Steppe hunter gatherer stuff as Davidski would put it.Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60249592267753087562015-08-24T10:22:43.417-07:002015-08-24T10:22:43.417-07:00Nirjhar, do you mean that because in Latin there i...Nirjhar, do you mean that because in Latin there is the word "pallium" which means "cloak" and Sumerian and Akkadian have pala and bēli, respectively, meaning "garment", a word related to Latin pellis is the original word for "skin" in Indo-European?<br /><br />Or do you think that Proto-Slavic *poltьno, from Proto-Indo-European *polto- (“cloth”) is Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77786982555287316172015-08-24T10:14:12.396-07:002015-08-24T10:14:12.396-07:00"but for example clan, you know the etymology..."but for example clan, you know the etymology is made from plant!"<br /><br />That's news to me. Vasmer connects clan with Slav *celedi and Skrt kulam, so I'd need to dig around further. Thanks.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32057514125859493922015-08-24T10:10:31.193-07:002015-08-24T10:10:31.193-07:00"Pal is IE see the Sumerian list also."
..."Pal is IE see the Sumerian list also."<br /><br />At http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd1/nepsd-frame.html<br />I found only the word below so what's your point?<br /><br />tug2pala3; tug2pala; tug2pala2 "a garment" Akk. tēdīq bēli; tēdīq bēlti; tēdīq šarriKristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65010329503351530752015-08-24T09:35:01.450-07:002015-08-24T09:35:01.450-07:00I will reply on others later, its a good conversat...I will reply on others later, its a good conversation:).Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52755292895403691412015-08-24T09:22:13.510-07:002015-08-24T09:22:13.510-07:00German,
On IE *kwel– ‘full, fertile’: IE *kwel– ‘c...German,<br />On IE *kwel– ‘full, fertile’: IE *kwel– ‘crowd’ i do find that interesting :) but for example<br />clan, you know the etymology is made from plant!<br />something like Sanskrit<br />http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=clan&searchmode=noneNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6144879956624519562015-08-24T09:01:27.146-07:002015-08-24T09:01:27.146-07:00@Nirjhar
"The correspondence of Skt. kloman ...@Nirjhar<br /><br />"The correspondence of Skt. kloman (*klauman) and Greek pleumon (*plauman) with the same meaning <br />instead is too perfect to be easily refused."<br /><br />Oh, no, I don't doubt the connection between kloman and pleumo:n 'lung', only the connection between IE lung words and *pleu- 'swim'. I just merge IE *klou-ni- and IE *pleu-mon into a German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21669375587374614892015-08-24T08:49:14.175-07:002015-08-24T08:49:14.175-07:00German,
Well , the connection of kloman with sroni...German,<br />Well , the connection of kloman with sroni does not look very convincing, semantically and morphologically.<br />The correspondence of Skt. kloman (*klauman) and Greek pleumon (*plauman) with the same meaning <br />instead is too perfect to be easily refused. The connection with the root plau/plu is quite necessary if you <br />see the other words coming from that root in Greek and Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5768449712991145422015-08-24T08:41:49.764-07:002015-08-24T08:41:49.764-07:00Kristiina,
Pal is IE see the Sumerian list also.
G...Kristiina,<br />Pal is IE see the Sumerian list also.<br />German,<br />I reply on some (I am very busy now),<br />On this story of sneezing does not look very interesting ;), about kw- to p-,<br />it is the normal evolution, but this does not exclude a dissimilation from pl to kl<br />when there is the labial m in Vedic, something that cannot be denied since<br />there are no words in Sanskrit Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.com