tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post7477147891787455810..comments2024-03-18T22:01:02.498-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Pots were people in Bronze Age southern Central Asia tooDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22468438314612465482017-08-10T15:13:23.830-07:002017-08-10T15:13:23.830-07:00Ryan,
The basic skills and tools required to burn...Ryan,<br /><br />The basic skills and tools required to burn ceramics, such as pottery, have been found in northern Europe - dated 27.000+ years BP. <br /><br />What's more - the oldest potshreds found are now from China, dated 20.000 years BP.<br /><br />So being at it, we better re-define the IE language to include both chineese and japaneese - promting that the IE languages spread during batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42282917572090975082017-08-10T11:25:09.188-07:002017-08-10T11:25:09.188-07:00Pottery started in Japan therefor Indo-European la...Pottery started in Japan therefor Indo-European languages are really dialects of Japanese.<br /><br />QED.<br /><br />:3Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23693495067386469652017-08-10T08:19:46.987-07:002017-08-10T08:19:46.987-07:00Also, any MtDna from this? I am beginning to wonde...Also, any MtDna from this? I am beginning to wonder if due to lack of resolution, some 'indigenous SA' mtdna clades were actually BMAC ones. With the Rakhigarhi leak as well, I am inclined to believe the same about Ydna clades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37026194511643601722017-08-10T08:07:58.022-07:002017-08-10T08:07:58.022-07:00@EastPole
In terms of vocabulary choice: Classica...@EastPole<br /><br />In terms of vocabulary choice: Classical Sanskrit and New Indo-Aryan languages are closer to Russian, but Vedic looks closer to Lithuanian.<br /><br />In terms of Grammar: Sanskrit and Russian are close.<br /><br />In terms of phonology: Vedic & Sanskrit with Lithuanian<br /><br />In terms of phonological correspondences: Vedic & Sanskrit with Russian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68361877673911501992017-08-10T01:15:43.338-07:002017-08-10T01:15:43.338-07:00@ Kony
Yes, there's some Z93 throughout east...@ Kony <br /><br />Yes, there's some Z93 throughout east Europe, even apparently some rather basal clades. <br />It would be the task of future work - if feasible - to place it into stratigraphy. <br />Eg that in mainland Ukraine might truly represent some Andronovan ancestors. That in Crimea might be a younger, Turkic clade. Then you have Ashkenazi clusters, Roma clusters, etc, etcRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74727546786952754832017-08-10T00:22:19.005-07:002017-08-10T00:22:19.005-07:00@Rob
According to Eupedia maps, there is Z93 in Mo...@Rob<br />According to Eupedia maps, there is Z93 in Moldova and Crimea. Not extreme but noticeable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8938533382789920762017-08-09T21:20:30.454-07:002017-08-09T21:20:30.454-07:00@Rob
Thanks for the detailed explanation.@Rob<br />Thanks for the detailed explanation.velvetguntherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07913895735497180976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32371954713808626912017-08-09T19:53:02.572-07:002017-08-09T19:53:02.572-07:00@EastPole
Which language is closer to Slavic: Vedi...@EastPole<br /><i>Which language is closer to Slavic: Vedic Sanskrit, Avestan or Indo-Iranian?</i><br /><br />Sanskrit is closer (to the Slavic). Sanskrit is particularly close to Russian and Lithuanian (Baltic)... but particularly to Russian, more than is published.Atriðrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13083384836707338698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39221408949816942552017-08-09T18:58:34.511-07:002017-08-09T18:58:34.511-07:00@ east pole
There is no language called indo-Iran...@ east pole<br /><br />There is no language called indo-Iranian<br /><br />There is Vedic and avestan ( less preserved and small samples) co-eval with late Vedic. Pre Avestan is not preserved. Slavic is recent so I doubt its relationship with Iranian vs Indic can be reliably discerned.<br /><br />@David if pots are people then there should be a massive trail of incised ware from Turkmenistan to postneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15934339167362142582017-08-09T16:47:32.240-07:002017-08-09T16:47:32.240-07:00@ VelvetGunther
"Any idea what might have ca...@ VelvetGunther<br /><br />"Any idea what might have caused the absorption/end of the Iranics in the west if the Slavs or proto-Slavs had no role to play in it?"<br /><br />Just from top of my head, the Sarmatian Era is the last phase of autonomous Iranic presence in E.E. It lasted will into the late 5th century. They had become the pre-eminent group in the western steppe after the Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89571982394825797712017-08-09T10:15:35.570-07:002017-08-09T10:15:35.570-07:00@Singh
"First Wave : Indo-Aryans split from ...@Singh<br /><br />"First Wave : Indo-Aryans split from Indo-Iranians in steppes. Indo-Aryans show affinity towards Yamnaya/Afanseivo-like groups."<br /><br />The split couldn't have happened anywhere north of BMAC according to linguistics. For example, both share the same word for camels which is 'ushtra' and camels did not reach the rest of CA and the steppes till the 11th Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47111671279302463342017-08-09T08:28:37.388-07:002017-08-09T08:28:37.388-07:00MtDNA H6 was found in the Andronovo Culture & ... MtDNA H6 was found in the Andronovo Culture & H6a1b the Okunev Culture. So maybe she migrated east down the PC Steppe following yDNA R1a. MtDNA lineages in India are indigenous to the area. For my own research, I would like to know just how far.....east & south ( autocorrect ugh!) MtDNA H6a migrated. Certainly seems like MtDNA H6a followed yDNA R1a migrations. Just not to India. jvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62190870688293059952017-08-09T07:51:48.221-07:002017-08-09T07:51:48.221-07:00Well it's nice to have an impact.
Everything&...Well it's nice to have an impact.<br /><br />Everything's building up to a massive crescendo, so hopefully the new Harvard paper on South Asia isn't delayed. :PDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20224821179385442092017-08-09T07:45:05.542-07:002017-08-09T07:45:05.542-07:00I might have mentioned this before but I think the...I might have mentioned this before but I think the comment couldn't get through. It seems it is now David's turn to be quoted in an Indian magazine:<br />http://www.caravanmagazine.in/perspectives/vedic-people-new-dna-evidence-india-historyvelvetguntherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07913895735497180976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20730253152999127972017-08-09T07:44:38.263-07:002017-08-09T07:44:38.263-07:00@Singh
Which language is closer to Slavic: Vedic ...@Singh<br /><br />Which language is closer to Slavic: Vedic Sanskrit, Avestan or Indo-Iranian?<br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20110572948715382992017-08-09T07:41:24.360-07:002017-08-09T07:41:24.360-07:00@Rob
"So it seems the 2 groups did live adjac...@Rob<br />"So it seems the 2 groups did live adjacently for a long time, but the absorption / end of Iranics in fhe west and subsequent expansion of Slavs just missed each other ( by a matter of 50-100 years.)"<br /><br />Any idea what might have caused the absorption/end of the Iranics in the west if the Slavs or proto-Slavs had no role to play in it?velvetguntherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07913895735497180976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88375597106472317422017-08-09T07:20:32.236-07:002017-08-09T07:20:32.236-07:00@Rob
I agree@Rob<br /><br />I agreeJR97https://www.blogger.com/profile/18354156064772393511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37422106720973910292017-08-09T06:53:22.730-07:002017-08-09T06:53:22.730-07:00@ Singh
"We know that in Eastern Europe, Ira...@ Singh<br /><br />"We know that in Eastern Europe, Iranics assimilated with Proto-Slavic, which means Iranics continued to live in steppes for long time unlike Indo-Aryans who left the steppes very early. "<br /><br />Any absorption was rather minimal, probably because iranics had largely disappeared from western steppe and Balkans by the time of (most recent) Slavic expansion. <br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73405191744702174062017-08-09T06:15:17.074-07:002017-08-09T06:15:17.074-07:00@EastPole
Based on what auDNA pattern in South As...@EastPole<br /><br />Based on what auDNA pattern in South Asians, it's possible that Proto-Indo-Iranians were probably Steppe EMBA-like, that is Afanseivo/Yamnaya-like. <br /><br />First Wave : Indo-Aryans split from Indo-Iranians in steppes. Indo-Aryans show affinity towards Yamnaya/Afanseivo-like groups.<br /><br />Second Wave : Iranics continue to live in the steppes, arriving later, as JR97https://www.blogger.com/profile/18354156064772393511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38303666244512148532017-08-09T04:27:31.141-07:002017-08-09T04:27:31.141-07:00@Rami
“Those settlements in Turkmenistan are all ...@Rami <br />“Those settlements in Turkmenistan are all Iranic, as they are derived from Sintashta which is clearly Iranic.”<br /><br />Where and when did Indo-Iranians originate if Sintashta was Iranic?<br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4696914052754487092017-08-09T03:45:47.353-07:002017-08-09T03:45:47.353-07:00That much is clear. But what does this mean for Sw...<i>That much is clear. But what does this mean for Swat valley / Indus ??</i><br /><br />Nothing . I expect aDNA will show good indications . Andronovo were in all likelihood proto-Scythians .<br /><br />After the aridification around ~2000 BC, people migrated in most parts of Eurasia.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91384889367902969912017-08-09T03:22:03.654-07:002017-08-09T03:22:03.654-07:00Your obsession is something else lol. Those settle...Your obsession is something else lol. Those settlements in Turkmenistan are all Iranic, as they are derived from Sintashta which is clearly Iranic. This is old news in fact, Victor Sarianidi devoted his life on this. This does not really explain the obscure Indo Aryan angle, as those groups seem to be Yamnaya/Afanseivo like. The interactions between the BMAC and Sintashta gives rise to the Yaz Ramihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08212726536809592734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70737763567893364072017-08-09T02:11:59.338-07:002017-08-09T02:11:59.338-07:00Awesome work.
Really begins to clarify the situat...Awesome work. <br />Really begins to clarify the situation of late BMAC, based on Murghab sector at least. <br />Some points; <br /><br />- the presence of pastoral communities has greater confirmation. They appear as temporary campsites, marked by a pastoral economic profile, and "Incised wares" similar to Andronovo ceramics, which begin to appear toward the latter phases of BMAC. <br Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com