tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post788328351098490122..comments2024-03-28T03:42:11.788-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Blast from the past: Yamnaya prediction from 2016Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15134226396906658862018-09-16T05:49:39.659-07:002018-09-16T05:49:39.659-07:00Vara
"You telling me that a these samurai-nin...Vara<br />"You telling me that a these samurai-ninja-herders could beat people who had proper military and were using swords by using stone weapons?"<br /><br />if they could hit and run<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numidian_cavalry<br /><br />"Due to their expert horsemanship and agility, as well as their lack of armor or heavy weaponry, they were most suitable for Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47551299611309177192018-09-15T08:24:05.737-07:002018-09-15T08:24:05.737-07:00@Vara
Trypillia was present in the Steppe and had ...@Vara<br />Trypillia was present in the Steppe and had relations to Repin. And it happens wagons and metallurgy were first attested in the Balkans. If Yamna were the result of mixing between Steppe culture (Repin, Khvalynsk....), with a chunk of Balkans Neolithic DNA, there is no need of any influence from Maykop. And already pointed the DNA results to you: no trace of Maykop in Yamna (except in Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58074323953225913942018-09-15T04:33:58.223-07:002018-09-15T04:33:58.223-07:00@ Bob Floy
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I’m alwa...@ Bob Floy<br />Thanks for your comments. Yes, I’m always trying to improve my knowledge.<br /><br />Did I mention about the time I chanced upon Twatford-on -Twatford.? I had some lovely rose tea and cucumber sandwiches.<br /><br />Then I put on my wife’s cardigan.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64054188811016969822018-09-12T22:13:37.929-07:002018-09-12T22:13:37.929-07:00@ Vara
Could you please point out to me how many...@ Vara <br /><br />Could you please point out to me how many swords were found in the Maykop Culture ? How common were Metal Weapons during the Eneolithic or any other Metal objects for that matter ? <br /><br />As to the effectiveness of Obsidian you can look at bullets used today which fragments upons impact causing more damage to surrounding tissue and making surgery more complicated and time Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7636098146175442392018-09-12T20:41:05.692-07:002018-09-12T20:41:05.692-07:00@Vara
The cultures from the Caucasus that you app...@Vara<br /><br />The cultures from the Caucasus that you apparently identify as Proto-Indo-European did not have any genetic impact on the Eneolithic/Bronze Age steppe peoples, except Steppe Maykop to some extent.<br /><br />On the other hand, late European farmers did. And I'm pretty sure that they had words for farming and related stuff.<br /><br />So now not only do you have to contest theDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38722697279775722262018-09-12T20:35:32.424-07:002018-09-12T20:35:32.424-07:00@nirjhar
Why don't you just accept that OIT(o...@nirjhar<br /><br />Why don't you just accept that OIT(or whatever watered down, fig leaf clad version of it that you claim to subscribe to) is dead, and join the grownups, instead of coming here and stinking up the comment threads with your obnoxious, knit-picky bullshit? Yeah, I know, you're not talking about South Asia here, but we all know that's your real issue, all of this otherBob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6083178609205538372018-09-12T18:41:47.708-07:002018-09-12T18:41:47.708-07:00@Davidski
Not just Sredny Stog, Repin and Khvaly...@Davidski <br /><br />Not just Sredny Stog, Repin and Khvalynsk but Maykop also. The Zhivotilovka-Volchansk horizon, which is the first culture that shows the transition from the Eneolithic to Bronze age on the steppes, is derived from Novosbodnaya. Not only that, but it is also the first culture on the steppe that has wheeled devices. The Bronocice pot is dated around the same as the Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90696117980194228412018-09-12T03:24:33.627-07:002018-09-12T03:24:33.627-07:00@Nirjhar
You're not making any sense.
Yamnay...@Nirjhar<br /><br />You're not making any sense.<br /><br />Yamnaya can't be derived from the Eneolithic of the North Caucasus steppes because this doesn't fit any published chronology.<br /><br />Yamnaya only shows up in the North Caucasus region around 3000 BCE, after its recorded much further north.<br /><br />So like I said, Yamnaya derives from Sredny Stog, Repin and Khvalynsk. Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35922970135986967602018-09-12T03:18:44.537-07:002018-09-12T03:18:44.537-07:00Dave,
We said north Caucasus Steppe eneolithic ,...Dave, <br />We said <i> north Caucasus Steppe eneolithic</i> , not Majkop.<br />Whoops indeed. <br /><br />But hey, I’ll cut you a break : Maybe those males in mound burials <i>identified</i> as females!, after all gender is just a social construct. So your Caucasus wives theory is salvaged !.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14477943346167106462018-09-12T03:08:45.496-07:002018-09-12T03:08:45.496-07:00@Nirjhar
Yamnaya can't be from the North Cauc...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Yamnaya can't be from the North Caucasus because the North Caucasus region was occupied by Maykop and Steppe Maykop when Yamnaya didn't even exist yet.<br /><br />And Yamnaya can't be derived from Maykop. It's impossible, and we know this because we have the samples.<br /><br />Whoops!<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5365044612581445682018-09-12T02:06:48.121-07:002018-09-12T02:06:48.121-07:00Dear Dave, your nose must be getting rather big wi...Dear Dave, your nose must be getting rather big with all those lies you are telling.<br /><br />Why don’t we consult Shishlina; who excavates and dates these cultures:''Yamnaya culture population (3000–2450 cal BC) occupied various ecological areas”.<br /><br />Sredny Stog is not Yamnaya, so no offence I do not need to read your garbled and distorted tales.<br /><br />How do we know aboutNirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3105527855883927802018-09-12T01:37:22.275-07:002018-09-12T01:37:22.275-07:00@Nirjhar
Yamnaya dates to earlier than 3000 BCE, ...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Yamnaya dates to earlier than 3000 BCE, and Sredny Stog, Repin and Khvalysnk to much earlier than that. <br /><br />Have you heard about Sredny Stog? You can read about it here...<br /><br /><a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/03/was-ukraineeneolithic-i6561-proto-indo.html" rel="nofollow">Was Ukraine_Eneolithic I6561 a Proto-Indo-European?</a><br /><br />And how do youDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49757105384245806702018-09-12T01:24:39.631-07:002018-09-12T01:24:39.631-07:00Dear Dave
You seem confused ,Yamnaya dates from 3...Dear Dave<br /><br />You seem confused ,Yamnaya dates from 3000 BCE. <br />The north Caucasus Steppe eneolithic existed since 4500 BCE. They are the best match for Proto-Yamnaya ancestry. Khvalynsk barely even made any kurgans; and seem to have been replaced. <br /><br />I won’t wade into South Asia for now :) .Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15705270037689608752018-09-12T01:02:57.707-07:002018-09-12T01:02:57.707-07:00The real Game Changer was when Armor and effective...The real Game Changer was when Armor and effective Shields started to enter the Battlefield.<br />Then Metal became more effective as weapons due to its durability/elasticity...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12779517519988672552018-09-12T00:02:10.667-07:002018-09-12T00:02:10.667-07:00Does an Obsidian Blade at the tip of a spear kill ...Does an Obsidian Blade at the tip of a spear kill less efficiently than a Metal Blade in the hands of someone who knows how to use it ? Does a metal axe kill more efficiently than a Stone Axe ? Ever wondered why Slingshots were used into the Iron Age ? <br /><br />The only real advantage metal gave people in early wars were the fact that metal can be reused or bent back to its original form but Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35669166473423916712018-09-11T22:54:09.687-07:002018-09-11T22:54:09.687-07:00@Nirjhar
Yamnaya doesn't derive from the Cauc...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Yamnaya doesn't derive from the Caucasus or even the North Caucasus steppes, it's a culture that formed from the Sredny Stog, Repin and Khvalynsk cultures well north of the Caucasus.<br /><br />So no, Yamnaya wasn't native to the North Caucasus, but yes, as I correctly pointed out, it expanded into the North Caucasus steppes.<br /><br />You'll have to accept Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44151661324006234612018-09-11T22:27:01.375-07:002018-09-11T22:27:01.375-07:00Dear David,
This seems to have worked for a while,...Dear David,<br /><i>This seems to have worked for a while, but then we see Yamnaya move into the North Caucasus steppes, Maykop disappear, and even Kura-Araxes pushed into the Near East</i><br /><br /><br />Bud, you still seem to miss the important point that the expansion of CHG/ EHG occurred <i>from</i> the north Caucasus to the rest of the steppe. <br /><br />As Russian archaeologists like Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24961940239312368512018-09-11T21:40:19.166-07:002018-09-11T21:40:19.166-07:00It all looks like Suvorovo-Novodanilovka had somet...It all looks like Suvorovo-Novodanilovka had something to do with this whole story and specifically Middle-Proto-Indo-European Language...<br /><br />My uneducated guess is an early migration from the Lower Don up to Samara/Khvalynsk and then to Derievka/Sredny Stog. From there back Eastwards forming Repin and Westwards forming Suvorovo ? The Horse Headed Scepters spread from Khvalynsk towards Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41311021183040926082018-09-11T21:08:31.199-07:002018-09-11T21:08:31.199-07:00@Lee Albee
The Maykop outliers are only relevant ...@Lee Albee<br /><br />The Maykop outliers are only relevant to Maykop, not to Yamnaya. In other words, there was mixing between Maykop and Steppe Maykop.<br /><br />Also, there's evidence of horse domestication in Eneolithic Eastern Europe by people with no links to the Botai people. This looks like a parallel process to the one at Botai, not one derived from it.<br /><br />And there's Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24203585107843704252018-09-11T20:23:26.010-07:002018-09-11T20:23:26.010-07:00@Davidski.
Sorry about that post auto correct is ...@Davidski.<br /><br />Sorry about that post auto correct is kicking my hiney tonight.<br /><br /><br />I am aware that the genetic information is. But I think the "outlier" Steppe Maykop samples show that some mixing was going on???<br /><br />Anyway, you cannot be certain when the Yamnaya began speaking indo-European languages. As the are considered late PIE, the were unlikely the Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56056236829996982572018-09-11T18:41:03.919-07:002018-09-11T18:41:03.919-07:00@Lee Albee
There are no indications from ancient ...@Lee Albee<br /><br />There are no indications from ancient DNA of any close interactions between steppe groups like Sredny Stog/Khvalynsk/Yamnaya and Maykop or Botai.<br /><br />There is, however, evidence of mass replacements of both Maykop and Botai peoples in the North Caucasus steppes and Central Asia by Yamnaya and the later closely related Sintashta, respectively.<br /><br />So here's Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39329000742510852492018-09-11T18:12:45.382-07:002018-09-11T18:12:45.382-07:00@Samuel
I I think that the finding of the botai g...@Samuel<br /><br />I I think that the finding of the botai genetics in the Maykop people is very telling. Especially as the Boys I where the first to domesticated horses, at least that is how the evidence is leaning. Add in that the earliest wagon wheel is found in a major organ, it is starting to look like spread of horse husbandry came from the botai, with a later replacement of horse type, Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922322126268076554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29704585418855227832018-09-11T17:40:32.827-07:002018-09-11T17:40:32.827-07:00The battle lines have been redrawn recently, thank...The battle lines have been redrawn recently, thanks to the ancient DNA from Central Asia. Now, no one who has the ability to think logically is claiming that all R1a is from India or even Central Asia.<br /><br />But a lot of people are claiming that R1a-Z93, the Asian R1a, isn't all that closely related to European R1a, and that it does come from Central Asia.<br /><br />This is obviously Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70583188907976714882018-09-11T13:27:28.627-07:002018-09-11T13:27:28.627-07:00Come on. All R1a comes from India.
This has been ...Come on. All R1a comes from India.<br /><br />This has been proven.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1204906408544335012018-09-11T11:19:45.517-07:002018-09-11T11:19:45.517-07:00Nice job. At that time, David Reich's team was...Nice job. At that time, David Reich's team was still playing with the idea of 'recent' Maykop or Iran Chalcolithic contribution to Yamnaya. They still think Yamnaya's southern ancestry is from Iran which the data now shows is wrong.<br /><br />This shows you make clear-headed predictions that are worth while to listen to unlike what some of your hater(s) say. But, i'd like to Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.com