tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post789937002139735011..comments2024-03-19T04:18:48.805-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The Out-of-India Theory (OIT) challenge: can we hear a viable argument for once?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger146125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32030270230498768432020-05-13T09:59:35.334-07:002020-05-13T09:59:35.334-07:00@Senator. Your contempt for well-established facts...@Senator. Your contempt for well-established facts is typical for both the pro-AIT and PIE-skeptical camps (just not for the OIT camp). Urdu is nothing but Hindi written in Arabic script and with many Persian or Arabic loan words. Hindi is New Indo-Aryan, grown up in India. But if you know it all better, it all better, enlighten us about whence Urdu invaded. Where outside India was it originally Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50177511502418457602020-05-04T06:18:32.673-07:002020-05-04T06:18:32.673-07:00"Many groups have historically entered India ..."Many groups have historically entered India and left their genes there, but none has maintained its language let alone imposed it on the natives."<br /><br />Thats actually really cute that you think Urdu/Hindi is native to the subcontinent. The language just happened to arrive at the same time as the invading Muslims. And spread through the only regions that Turkic armies happened to Senatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15621194411769410935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28492217375936530482019-04-13T04:43:28.738-07:002019-04-13T04:43:28.738-07:00That is rich, challenging the OIT camp to come up ...That is rich, challenging the OIT camp to come up with arguments. These linguistic, archaeological and literary arguments have been out in the open for many years, but the AIT camp has chosen to stonewall them. Indeed that is the explicit order given by a number of AIT champions right here. As for genetics, it could corroborate some indications from other fields, but it can never decide the (Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65282862400125425092017-08-25T11:47:25.926-07:002017-08-25T11:47:25.926-07:00+aniasi
I just chanced upon your earlier comment ...+aniasi<br /><br />I just chanced upon your earlier comment and I think it would be a grave injustice if such nonsense given in the form of an argument is not immediately corrected<br /><br /><b>It entails a bunch of invading warriors deciding that they are going to spend the rest of their lives engaged with liturgical memorization, ritual minutae, and ascetic practices, while leaving those with Archaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63576322774153835802017-07-30T16:43:57.839-07:002017-07-30T16:43:57.839-07:00No, R1a-M417 expanded with an Yamnaya or Yamnaya-r...No, R1a-M417 expanded with an Yamnaya or Yamnaya-related population from the steppe, mainly into I2 territory. See here...<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2017/05/late-pie-ground-zero-now-obvious.htmlDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71165613790830259282017-07-30T15:17:49.573-07:002017-07-30T15:17:49.573-07:00@Davidiski
You said "And by the way, Corded...@Davidiski <br /><br />You said "And by the way, Corded Ware doesn't have Yamnaya influence. Early Corded Ware is basically 100% Yamnaya living in Northern Europe."<br /><br />Wasn't the Yamnaya an R1b dominated culture? So what do you think - did the Yamnaya R1b population Indo-Europeanize the R1a people to their north? That could be the origin of the Corded Ware culture<br />Archaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29201249310500423782017-07-29T15:27:35.996-07:002017-07-29T15:27:35.996-07:00The debate is over. There is no way that South Asi...The debate is over. There is no way that South Asian populations from 2000 BCE could have been responsible for the spread of Indo European languages all the way to Western Europe in a couple of hundred years (Greek is attested from 1600 BCE).<br /><br />Whichever kind of evidence you look at, linguistic, archaeological, genetic or historical, the conclusion is that of the introduction of the Archaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24308952632436832212017-07-28T14:34:59.231-07:002017-07-28T14:34:59.231-07:00@khana,
well all those invadors in south asia ult...@khana,<br /><br />well all those invadors in south asia ultimately failed in destroying the native culture, many invadors also lost battles and where pushed back, and even those who managed to conquer south asia including all of those you mentioned, they where ultimately raped and killed by the native indians slowly but surely, even if it took hundreds of years in some cases. The ancestors of Bronzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04401880046015151556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65756338169673798672017-07-27T06:28:39.652-07:002017-07-27T06:28:39.652-07:00Khana,
Absolutely bro; I'll send over my ques...Khana,<br /><br />Absolutely bro; I'll send over my questions tomorrow evening.Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27040832501828097612017-07-27T03:46:50.782-07:002017-07-27T03:46:50.782-07:00@Sein, shoot me an e-mail.@Sein, shoot me an e-mail.khanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827402800706360678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6979209270271999552017-07-27T00:29:26.939-07:002017-07-27T00:29:26.939-07:00O-F1252 seems to have been distributed mainly in s...O-F1252 seems to have been distributed mainly in some part of China (probably toward the south of the country; however, note that there is a divergent lineage in an individual from Ryazan Oblast, Russia) until the expansion of its well-known subclade O-M111 through Southeast Asia as far as central Indonesia (Java, Borneo) beginning about 5,700 ybp at the earliest. Neither O-M111 nor O-F1252(xM111Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61669088400365625502017-07-27T00:25:11.167-07:002017-07-27T00:25:11.167-07:00YFull Haplogroup YTree v5.04
O-M268 > O-M176 (J...YFull Haplogroup YTree v5.04<br />O-M268 > O-M176 (Japan, Korea, Han, Vietnam, Manchu, Sibe, Nanai, Udege, Manchurian Evenk, Daur, NE Mongolia, W Mongolia, Micronesia) vs. O-K18 28,500 ybp<br />O-K18 > O-CTS10887 vs. O-PK4 22,200 ybp<br />O-CTS10887 > O-PF4341 (Southern Han, Kinh) vs. O-F779 (Han) vs. O-F417 (Han, Japanese, Dai) 15,900 ybp<br />O-PK4 > O-F838 vs. O-M95 12,400 ybp<br /Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76303796302940740542017-07-26T17:55:02.694-07:002017-07-26T17:55:02.694-07:00Khana,
I have some questions regarding the ancest...Khana,<br /><br />I have some questions regarding the ancestry of an individual for whom you've sent me coordinates; was hoping to talk to you (via email) about them.<br /><br />Matt,<br /><br />"I could give a quick explanation of the way I've used the software and method if you'd prefer, then you can just zoom in and out of the plots within the software..."<br /><br />Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3585197199577478612017-07-26T12:30:54.092-07:002017-07-26T12:30:54.092-07:00Ezibur:
"I suppose most of these scattered O...Ezibur:<br /><br />"I suppose most of these scattered O-M95 individuals in South Asia are also probably ultimately descended from the same Austroasiatic-speaking ancestors who have produced the present-day Munda group of peoples, but one cannot be sure without higher-resolution testing of Y-SNPs."<br /><br />If y-dna O and N share parternal ancrstry from K/NO they should both have a batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31791369507572794362017-07-26T00:54:32.863-07:002017-07-26T00:54:32.863-07:00@Sein, no problem. I'm not sure how easy they ...@Sein, no problem. I'm not sure how easy they will be for you to get look at though, as there's a limit to the resolution I can export from the software:<br /><br />World Fst Network Analysis - Moderns : http://imgur.com/a/kCbBR<br />World Fst Network Analysis - Moderns (alternate dataset): http://imgur.com/a/rRH31<br /><br />I could give a quick explanation of the way I've used the Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22954145373405557572017-07-26T00:05:08.730-07:002017-07-26T00:05:08.730-07:00@Sein: if it's the coordinates I sent you, the...@Sein: if it's the coordinates I sent you, they are Reza's. khanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827402800706360678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16198569401740811672017-07-25T23:51:02.126-07:002017-07-25T23:51:02.126-07:00I don't understand why so many are vehement in...I don't understand why so many are vehement in their opposition that a Northern or Western people could move in large numbers via the NW passes, conquer, and impose their culture on the plains of South Asia. If history repeats itself, then is it so far-fetched to believe that a people before the Achaemenids, Macedonians, Greco-Bactrians, Indo-Scythians, Indo-Parthians, Kushans, Hepthalites, khanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827402800706360678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51714522530597744002017-07-25T19:13:55.391-07:002017-07-25T19:13:55.391-07:00Reza,
That's an interesting question.
I thin...Reza,<br /><br />That's an interesting question.<br /><br />I think that if Muslim Bengalis weren't 5%-20% East Asian-admixed (depending on the individual), they'd be rather similar to some South Indian populations, like Primalai Kallar or Vellalar, albeit with a much higher Steppe_EMBA-to-Iran_N ratio.<br /><br />If I recall correctly, I was sent PCA coordinates for a individual of Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50066010970390054812017-07-25T12:59:12.540-07:002017-07-25T12:59:12.540-07:00@ Sein, those donation patterns are a puzzle, and ...@ Sein, those donation patterns are a puzzle, and I really have no answer for it!<br /><br />@ Sein and Shaikorth, in case you are thought it worth looking at (on the off chance) here are a couple more of those phylogenetic Fst networks I was running, but in this case, using all World modern populations:<br /><br />World Fst Network Analysis - Moderns : http://imgur.com/a/gTuvr<br />World Fst Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68105845976850373582017-07-25T12:44:33.984-07:002017-07-25T12:44:33.984-07:00Reza wrote,
"A rather basic question, but wh...Reza wrote,<br /><br />"A rather basic question, but what is the presumed incursion date for Austroasiatic speakers into the subcontinent?"<br /><br />The subclades of Y-DNA haplogroup O-M95 that are found in the Subcontinent (not only among present-day Austroasiatic speakers, but also among many other non-caste populations whose members currently speak dialects of the regionally Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16050409642017296412017-07-25T11:43:04.703-07:002017-07-25T11:43:04.703-07:0012. Witzel then mistranslates a passage from a Bra...12. Witzel then mistranslates a passage from a Brahmana text about the migration of Ayu and Amavasu tribes. While Ayu is mentioned as going east, Amavasu is not said to be staying but moving towards the West.<br /><br />Read here for the whole controversy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudhayana_Shrauta_Sutra<br /><br />See also the amusing longwinded footnote of Witzel on it in his paper. He Jaydeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01336330713605021262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75037453649934087702017-07-25T11:42:41.715-07:002017-07-25T11:42:41.715-07:00Sein,
Take your time. I understand that the Witze...Sein,<br /><br />Take your time. I understand that the Witzel text is quite long and its not easy to read and comment on it after. It is time-consuming.<br /><br />Nevertheless, forgive me, as I am going to make your task a little harder. Here's more of my criticism:-<br /><br />9. Witzel says <i> the retention and adaptation by the Iranians of earlier pre-Rigvedic river names points to an Jaydeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01336330713605021262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43819528052884826382017-07-25T06:41:39.708-07:002017-07-25T06:41:39.708-07:00A rather basic question, but what is the presumed ...A rather basic question, but what is the presumed incursion date for Austroasiatic speakers into the subcontinent? <br /><br />And when comparing more eastern groups like Bengalis or perhaps even some Biharis, is their ethnogenesis considered similar to or different to southern Indian populations? <br /><br />For example, is the noticeable east Asian component in Bengalis / Bangladeshis a Rezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07552902898493310858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72734717083911884042017-07-24T21:19:22.323-07:002017-07-24T21:19:22.323-07:00Shaikorth,
"A high coverage Steppe_EMBA geno...Shaikorth,<br /><br />"A high coverage Steppe_EMBA genome would be a goldmine for this kind of analysis."<br /><br />I completely agree.<br /><br />"On your PCA models, did Ust-Ishim appear when you allowed separate ASI donors?"<br /><br />Looking back, I probably should have tried that. That being said, you've given me an idea. <br /><br />Assuming that Ust-Ishim is Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47740874294441636472017-07-24T17:00:14.991-07:002017-07-24T17:00:14.991-07:00@Sein, yeah, I wrote a couple of posts on that mod...@Sein, yeah, I wrote a couple of posts on that modeling and South Asians last year. Loschbour is the sole representative of Euro-HG's there so it could mean both steppe ancestry in general (EHG in excess of Iran-N) and increasedly WHG-like (Sintashta/Andronovo as opposed to Yamnaya) steppe in particular. But then there's the question of why no CHG in South-Central Asia when it appears Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.com