tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8010544606318713181..comments2024-03-28T10:03:24.453-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Celtic probably not from the westDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger285125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12212048790628277512019-04-09T21:43:01.246-07:002019-04-09T21:43:01.246-07:00@ olga
Yes there are some diseases that cause in...@ olga <br /><br />Yes there are some diseases that cause infertility but famine also can cause a reduction in fertility. And people do not even need to look at fertility alone. Just something that could have impaired the sex drive. Lack of libido...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36988780535911080202019-04-09T21:35:51.478-07:002019-04-09T21:35:51.478-07:00If R1b on the Steppe were not Indo-European, then ...If R1b on the Steppe were not Indo-European, then how do we explain the Centum Languages ? All due to Urnfield even in the Helenes, Hittites and Tocharians ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13918173926551939202019-04-08T17:31:58.694-07:002019-04-08T17:31:58.694-07:00Among all the plagues mentioned, I can add one tha...<br />Among all the plagues mentioned, I can add one that may have consequences on the fertility of men That is "Mumps" <br />Especially I imagine in populations, that have never been in touched with the virus, and are debilitated because of famine, weather changes and war.<br />Foreign men probably were immunized against this disease in the Bronze age, and Iberian were not. olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15329956983115577489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-242180722969223132019-04-01T21:25:29.423-07:002019-04-01T21:25:29.423-07:00If it is difficult to see Geneflow between Northwe...If it is difficult to see Geneflow between Northwestern Europe and the Isles during the Bronze Age, wouldn't the same maybe count for MtDNA Geneflow between France and the Iberian Peninsula during the Neolithic and Early Bronze Ages ? In other words a Maternal Replacement from France to the Iberian Peninsula could be difficult to distinguish....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69727278450935696812019-04-01T12:51:51.637-07:002019-04-01T12:51:51.637-07:00Hallstatt surely was an Indoeuropaen culture, Tari...Hallstatt surely was an Indoeuropaen culture, Tarim basin mummies as old as 4.000 years wore the same textiles, plaid woolen designs, reminding of Scottish kilts, found in Hallstadt salt mines dating to roughly the same time and even earlier.<br /><br />The Mummies of Ürümchi<br />by Elizabeth Wayland Barber Xaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00181732387549360261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14700110049507698442019-03-31T22:49:01.051-07:002019-03-31T22:49:01.051-07:00Adding to my previous comment. E.g. The use of San...Adding to my previous comment. E.g. The use of Sanskrit...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18369246171852922012019-03-31T22:25:31.079-07:002019-03-31T22:25:31.079-07:00My problem with the time of split between P and Q-...My problem with the time of split between P and Q-Celtic is that written Language is not always spoken Language. A group of people can speak a totally different language for hundreds of years while praying and writing in another....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58874692560114777192019-03-31T18:04:39.620-07:002019-03-31T18:04:39.620-07:00@Richard
Either way, it looks like the subtle gen...@Richard<br /><br /><i>Either way, it looks like the subtle gene flow is one IE speaking population (P-Celtic) augmenting an already existing and more archaic IE speaking population (Q-Celtic), and not some drastic Basque to Celtic shift as some are hoping.</i><br /><br />I'm not in a position to discuss anything about P-Celtic and Q-Celtic, but keep in mind that Basques, Iberians and Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20942955842914090102019-03-31T14:02:57.944-07:002019-03-31T14:02:57.944-07:00Someone mentioned Schriver above
He seems to thin...Someone mentioned Schriver above <br />He seems to think that non-IE was spken Ireland until quite late <br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/38390147/More_on_Non-Indo-European_surviving_in_Ireland_in_the_first_millennium_AD<br /><br />Hard to say with linguistic suppositions; but small scale elite- movements can probably have big effects in such places Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67709115864253211502019-03-31T09:33:21.643-07:002019-03-31T09:33:21.643-07:00I see that many people still think of violent conq...I see that many people still think of violent conquests, nothing is further from the archaeological reality of Iberian sites. Now that the president of Mexico has asked by letter to the King of Spain that we apologize for the conquest, perhaps we should ask the Bbs to apologize for exterminating the Iberian natives. The truth is that as genocide we Spaniards have never had great success, because Gaskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17412266725782255586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35906996805334121932019-03-31T08:11:13.999-07:002019-03-31T08:11:13.999-07:00Davidski said...It seems that there was more or le...Davidski said...<i>It seems that there was more or less continuous gene flow from the south into Britain and Ireland after the Beaker period, because all British and Irish populations are shifted closer to continental Western European populations compared to British Beakers and Ireland_EBA.<br /><br />Some of this gene flow may have been associated with the arrival of Celtic culture and languagesRichard Roccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10137962922951473003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53586218904500395132019-03-31T05:50:21.036-07:002019-03-31T05:50:21.036-07:00Re; time distribution of samples, of course, and g...Re; time distribution of samples, of course, and gaps where it implied there is change, this issue is worse in the British dataset, where you have about 3 samples between 2800-2400, two of which are from Orkney (where Megalithic Neolithic and agriculture traditions are noted to persist best and latest) and one is a low SNPs femur from England.<br /><br />(British N with late dates - <br /><br />Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11418465896964117852019-03-31T04:22:14.349-07:002019-03-31T04:22:14.349-07:00@ Davidski
'' I think it's more likel...@ Davidski <br />'' I think it's more likely that Iberia_CA_Stp was basically a population of unadmixed Beakers from somewhere north of the Pyrenees. ''<br /><br />All those males are very similar - falling c. 25- 2000 BC, being R1b-L51, + steppe ancestry, daggers, Beaker ware, etc). Theyre from a circle in north Iberia - Asturias, Burgos, ..<br />Judjing from the Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137547950290035805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2119090663748976532019-03-31T03:57:33.508-07:002019-03-31T03:57:33.508-07:00@Davidski, I don't really understand. Your com...@Davidski, I don't really understand. Your comment is:<br /><i>I don't know if a figure of 25% admixture from outside Iberia is actually plausible, even if the numbers work.</i><br /><br />Mine is:<br /><i>The X chromosome work they do suggests that a 25% male line contribution from pre-BA Iberians is plausible, and some slightly different cultural contact scenarios would be possible if Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48803906214685396162019-03-31T03:49:35.243-07:002019-03-31T03:49:35.243-07:00@Matt
Iberia_BA is modeled in the paper as Iberia...@Matt<br /><br />Iberia_BA is modeled in the paper as Iberia_CA/Iberia_CA_Stp 40/60.<br /><br />So I don't know if a figure of 25% admixture from outside Iberia is actually plausible, even if the numbers work.<br /><br />That's because you'd need Iberia_CA_Stp to already have a lot of local Iberian ancestry, but the chances of this are slim in my opinion. I think it's more likely Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20012822124872526402019-03-31T03:34:24.377-07:002019-03-31T03:34:24.377-07:00@Romulus, nice, thanks for that link, I'd wond...@Romulus, nice, thanks for that link, I'd wondered if anyone had used population scale data to estimate y haplo frequencies yet. <br /><br />Surprising that R1b+R1a (R1) is at 71.06% only, then I1 at 12% and I2 at 7.6%. <br /><br />Looking at the Poznik 2016 ref based on 1000 Genomes - but only 46 male British samples! - the estimate is R1 at 84%, I1 13%, I2 only 2%, and of course easy to getMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68460104003564519972019-03-31T03:32:20.536-07:002019-03-31T03:32:20.536-07:00@FrankN & @Sam Andrews: In, Iberia there's...@FrankN & @Sam Andrews: <i>In, Iberia there's little or no DNA data from between 2300bc and 1500bc.</i><br /><br />Few graphics to try and contextualize info on the time distribution of samples a bit: https://imgur.com/a/YJy6v4R<br /><br />That's fairly reasonable if hyperbolic.<br /><br />I think we'd still benefit from better qpAdm modelling of steppe ancestry proportions in *Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13300754056657538302019-03-30T23:50:02.481-07:002019-03-30T23:50:02.481-07:00@ ANI EXCAVATOR:
"if you ask multiple linguis...@ ANI EXCAVATOR:<br />"<i>if you ask multiple linguists for Celtic, you will find the opinion that there is simply no good evidence for extensive non-IE influence in Celtic</i>"<br />Oops.. Have a look at P. Shrijver's publications - one of the most reknowned European lecturers on Celtic. For a start, take his 2015 paper<br />http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30583473433342786632019-03-30T23:11:38.063-07:002019-03-30T23:11:38.063-07:00@ Andrzejewski
Maybe the Steppe people got xenop...@ Andrzejewski <br /><br />Maybe the Steppe people got xenophobic towards people with the Plague in Britain ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36201424619936287692019-03-30T22:58:29.003-07:002019-03-30T22:58:29.003-07:00I'm still baffled how come in Iberia there was...I'm still baffled how come in Iberia there was an almost annihilation of just the male line while in Britain it was a full blown extermination, not a sex biased one. Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34904803893268708402019-03-30T22:39:41.486-07:002019-03-30T22:39:41.486-07:00@ zardos
Its just a pure assumption/speculation t...@ zardos<br /><br />Its just a pure assumption/speculation that the process "lasted a short time by region". If you want to say this, you got to show a pattern in the radiocarbon dates, the locations, and the ancestry. Is there such a pattern? You should assemble the sites, dates and ancestries and report back. <br /><br />Taking a quick look at the tables, steppe ancestry appears ANI EXCAVATORhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13159481900489133715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90884705659019202942019-03-30T22:18:38.710-07:002019-03-30T22:18:38.710-07:00Other newspapers stated that Yamnaya "came fr...Other newspapers stated that Yamnaya "came from the Caucasus" or that "Bell Beaker originated in Iberia". I wonder who the science editors of these newspapers are. At least one newspaper referred to it as the "European Steppe" instead of claiming that our ancestors came from Central Asia.Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22420635375826273712019-03-30T21:58:53.176-07:002019-03-30T21:58:53.176-07:00LOL
That Sun article was hilarious. Like some sor...LOL<br /><br />That Sun article was hilarious. Like some sort of parody.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40632169186584743162019-03-30T21:48:20.312-07:002019-03-30T21:48:20.312-07:00@Zardos:
Thanks for pointing me to the Humanejos h...@Zardos:<br />Thanks for pointing me to the Humanejos halberd - I had overlooked that one. However, your 2500 BC date is too early. The burial has supplied two AMS dates: 2482-2295 BCE for the senior male, and 2345-2136 BCE for the female (I6585). <br />https://www.academia.edu/22743601/FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77864966351717152792019-03-30T21:36:57.563-07:002019-03-30T21:36:57.563-07:00Seems that either Reich got his conclusions wrong ...Seems that either Reich got his conclusions wrong again (or is it the Sun editor?)<br /><br />"Their research showed that 7,000-8,000 years ago, a closely related group of early farmers moved into Europe from the Near East."<br /><br />Nope. Neolithic farmers were a distinct population, both vis-a-vis WHG and vis-a-vis our Steppe Kurgan ancestors.Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.com