tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8019310972522213846..comments2024-03-19T02:38:12.460-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Three-wayDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75690282114345867182017-02-15T23:59:55.240-08:002017-02-15T23:59:55.240-08:00"So Kemi-Oba looks too young to be the source..."So Kemi-Oba looks too young to be the source of CHG in early Yamnaya."<br />In my opinion, Kemi-Oba and Maykop cultures should be perceived as a part of much broader impulse which has its beginnings in late Ubaid period (5000-4000 BC). From there it first spread to Central Caucusus and manifested itself in the form of Leyla-Tepe culture (4350-4000) in modern Azerbaijan and later spreadVolodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23655917740948758412017-02-15T02:59:25.480-08:002017-02-15T02:59:25.480-08:00Ah yeah, you're right.. (I did know that).
H...Ah yeah, you're right.. (I did know that). <br /><br />H2a was found in MEsolithic Karelia too.<br />We need more samples methinks.. <br /><br />But if Kemi Oba is too late, and if Majkop comes out something like Armenia Chalcolithic (as some have reasonably argued; and is thus *not* the correct admixing population for Yamnaya steppe), then the only other possible choice is something like Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80229363059215524352017-02-15T02:53:51.617-08:002017-02-15T02:53:51.617-08:00Having said that, the Q1a guy has the highest leve...Having said that, the Q1a guy has the highest level of CHG out of the three available Khvalynsk samples. Make of that what you will.<br /><br />It's like this...<br /><br />Samara_Eneolithic I0122 (R1b) CHG 16.4%<br /><br />Samara_Eneolithic I0433 (R1a) CHG 12.8%<br /><br />Samara_Eneolithic I0434 (Q1a) CHG 33.8%<br /><br />Hence his position on the PCA.<br /><br />http://Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65085120712994934172017-02-15T02:31:29.685-08:002017-02-15T02:31:29.685-08:00He does have typically Northeast Caucasian mtDNA: ...He does have typically Northeast Caucasian mtDNA: H2a1.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82440394997896097192017-02-15T02:23:04.264-08:002017-02-15T02:23:04.264-08:00Yes, that R1b, CHG shifted, Khvalynsk guy indeed l...Yes, that R1b, CHG shifted, Khvalynsk guy indeed looks like an immigr... I mean recently married a Caucasus chick :)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38228084398863444032017-02-14T18:05:34.133-08:002017-02-14T18:05:34.133-08:00One of the Khvalynsk samples is well on the way to...One of the Khvalynsk samples is well on the way to looking like Yamnaya in regards to his EHG/CHG ratio, and the earliest Yamnaya samples are already a very stable blend of these components.<br /><br />So Kemi-Oba looks too young to be the source of CHG in early Yamnaya.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86321644990497679102017-02-14T15:44:48.143-08:002017-02-14T15:44:48.143-08:00Interesting comments Vlod
I think you're righ...Interesting comments Vlod <br />I think you're right Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2883922219041589522017-02-12T22:49:56.710-08:002017-02-12T22:49:56.710-08:00As to the Caucasus component (Caucasus Hunter-Gath...As to the Caucasus component (Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer component), I should point out the presence of Kemi-Oba culture in the South of Ukraine 3700-2800BCE before it was replaced with Yamna culture. Most archeologists see direct links of this culture with more southern Maykop culture. They maintain that the representatives of Kemi-Oba culture got into the Crimea first and later spread and Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4043854793277346512017-02-12T10:33:27.403-08:002017-02-12T10:33:27.403-08:00The role of Hunter-gather element on the territory...The role of Hunter-gather element on the territory of modern Moldova and Ukraine saw a marked increase through the late Trypilya period. These changes were especially noticeable in the centre of Ukraine. http://www.harmony.com.ua/text/319.htmlVolodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46220757111707318072017-02-12T10:20:07.649-08:002017-02-12T10:20:07.649-08:00THANKS, PARASAR
Today, 05:38 PM
parasar replied ...THANKS, PARASAR<br /><br />Today, 05:38 PM <br />parasar replied to a thread from western Yamna to Europe : a I2a2 + R1b-M269 joined venture ? in Ancient (aDNA) <br />I'm just saying that Villbruna fits perfectly the locus of expansion for L389 and V88 types in Europe - M73 north and north-east (Latvia, Samara... <br />78 replies | 2061 view(s)<br />Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28498235359217263742017-02-12T09:56:23.717-08:002017-02-12T09:56:23.717-08:00@ Simon_W
In fact the dates of YFull are Years Be...@ Simon_W<br /><br />In fact the dates of YFull are Years Before Present, thus 4500YBP was 2500 BC. Now they say 5300YBP, thus 3300 BC. Anyway after my remarks they put 800 years more, and the subclade R-PF7562* found in Anatolia is closer than before, anyway that is a tiny clade which hasn't anything to do with all the subclades deeply rooted in Italy.<br />Yes, you may think what you want Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24716210994350827452017-02-12T09:02:03.235-08:002017-02-12T09:02:03.235-08:00@Gioiello
Please note that I wrote 4500 BC = 6500...@Gioiello<br /><br />Please note that I wrote 4500 BC = 6500 bp approximately. So what I wrote is 100% correct. But anyway, all of this is quite irrelevant, because my point was to point out that R1b-M269 has many, many phylogenetically equivalent markers, and these started to accumulate many thousands of years before the TMRCA of living R1b-M269 people. <br /><br />R1b1 at Villabruna is fine, Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52999442912065211822017-02-12T08:27:48.419-08:002017-02-12T08:27:48.419-08:00@ Simon_W
"According to yfull, the TMRCA of ...@ Simon_W <br />"According to yfull, the TMRCA of all living R1b-M269 people is 4500 BC".<br /><br />Of course you are wrong in all what you say. After my letters to YFull on its FB pages and the new tree, the dates are:<br /><br />R-PF7562FGC31931/V2381 * PH1631/V2850 * Z29759/FGC31957/BY1713+10 SNPs5800 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 67004600 ybp" class="age"formed 6500 ybp, TMRCA Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65330981463398346062017-02-12T06:12:55.563-08:002017-02-12T06:12:55.563-08:00@OM
I don't know either. With a quick internet...@OM<br />I don't know either. With a quick internet search I can't find any firm evidence that Tutankhamun was R1b-M269. What I found for instance:<br />https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.ch/2011/01/dna-experts-disagree-over-tutankhamun.html#tTmPYBDWfEPqvFmv.97<br />I suppose if such firm evidence had ever been published it would have been covered on this or on Dienekes' blog.<brSimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46366174265855418062017-02-11T07:53:06.426-08:002017-02-11T07:53:06.426-08:00This recent paper is interesting. https://www.acad...This recent paper is interesting. https://www.academia.edu/31311945/Directly_dated_broomcorn_millet_from_the_northwestern_Caucasus_Tracing_the_Late_Bronze_Age_route_into_the_Russian_steppejvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34234322299767194022017-02-11T07:34:16.367-08:002017-02-11T07:34:16.367-08:00Looking forward to results coming from the Steppes...Looking forward to results coming from the Steppes as my line followed R1a & R1b......Sure hope to know someday where my maternal line was in the Mesolithic period.........Southern Ukraine? Caucasus? Central Asia........would like to know the mtDNA's of the Elshanka Culture. Was she a Hunter-Gatherer or a Farmer-Girl bought into the Steppe from Iran, somewhere else? Was she in Central jvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18790680993686669222017-02-11T07:28:33.417-08:002017-02-11T07:28:33.417-08:00Would love to see aDNAs from Sredny Stog and Ukrai...Would love to see aDNAs from Sredny Stog and Ukrainian Trypillya cultures. Anthropologically speakin, that was a two-way mixture process. There are multiple robust Dnieper-Donetsk hunter-gatherer like women in Trypolye, as well as gracile Mediterranean types in Sredny Stog. Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64795560627248208712017-02-11T05:49:58.642-08:002017-02-11T05:49:58.642-08:00Bronze age steppe buzz is exactly that. A buzz by ...Bronze age steppe buzz is exactly that. A buzz by the inferiority complex of the most irrelevant, uneventful genetics in human history. <br /><br />That is the reason we are so patiently putting up with it...<br /><br />Its alright, it's alright. All will be fine in the end..now now. Its going to be alright. Yes. Steppe was also important in human history.Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73567987672540484072017-02-11T04:28:36.545-08:002017-02-11T04:28:36.545-08:00@Matt
We have very little ANE samples or uniparen...@Matt<br /><br />We have very little ANE samples or uniparental markers. Considering the fact that once a lot of samples of Neolithic Middle-East or Paleolithic Europe came about the picture got far more complicated, the ANE story could be a bit more complicated as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22097380579531340192017-02-11T04:13:57.203-08:002017-02-11T04:13:57.203-08:00See OM ? the Unshakable mantra :D :
You guys can ...See OM ? the Unshakable mantra :D :<br /><br /><i>You guys can keep whining as much as you like, but the vast majority of the R1a-M417 in South Asia and R1b-M269 in Iberia are derived from the Bronze Age steppe. </i> <br /><br />Dave,Why vast majority? aren't they all ? :D , correct your mantra!. lol.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13740953121845142062017-02-11T04:11:29.402-08:002017-02-11T04:11:29.402-08:00Simon ,
'' But considering that Yamnaya h...Simon ,<br /><br />'' But considering that Yamnaya had R1b-L23, which is much younger than R1b-M269 according to yfull, ATP3's lineage may be simply a dead end that split from the surviving main branch of R1b-M269 long ago. ''<br /><br />If we apply the same logic , then the CWC M417s were also dead ends?. Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51114709518611379202017-02-11T04:09:54.472-08:002017-02-11T04:09:54.472-08:00You guys can keep whining as much as you like, but...You guys can keep whining as much as you like, but the vast majority of the R1a-M417 in South Asia and R1b-M269 in Iberia are derived from the Bronze Age steppe.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4474820017219554342017-02-11T03:56:51.395-08:002017-02-11T03:56:51.395-08:00Indeed As per Genetiker , it was M-269 :
Below ar...Indeed As per Genetiker , it was M-269 :<br /><br /><i>Below are the Y-SNP calls for ATP3, a sample from El Portalón cave in the Atapuerca Mountains of Spain. Positive calls are in bold, and negative calls are in non-bold.<br /><br /><b>The calls show that ATP3 belonged to Y haplogroup R1b1a1a2-M269.</b> </i> .<br />https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-atp3/Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10843838038836582162017-02-11T03:50:41.707-08:002017-02-11T03:50:41.707-08:00Yes if genetiker suggests it, then it may affirm ...Yes if genetiker suggests it, then it may affirm the case for R1b-M269 in Chalcolithic Iberia :) . But still , they will say it came from S Russia , like for that Italian R1b they did at first ! ;) . lol . Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62323472045402610892017-02-11T03:49:21.995-08:002017-02-11T03:49:21.995-08:00@simon
I dont know how real it was or how it ended...@simon<br />I dont know how real it was or how it ended..but the R1b story of the boy king tutankhamon in egypt also was called an old dead end M269...was it not?Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.com