tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8118402644030228527..comments2024-03-28T15:13:25.036-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Celtic vs Germanic EuropeDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56853375280297759482018-10-02T15:55:43.250-07:002018-10-02T15:55:43.250-07:00@ Fanty
Yes, somewhere on their site (I don't...@ Fanty<br /><br />Yes, somewhere on their site (I don't recall where) I also read they aim at a time depth of about 500 years or so. And indeed, their method is based on the classification of short alignments of SNPs. They even phase the genomic data, if the customer provides a kit of a parent or a kid as well. This explains their greater accuracy and reliability compared to some other Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80277506079012849652018-10-02T15:28:45.319-07:002018-10-02T15:28:45.319-07:00@ weure
Thanks for the info, that's indeed in...@ weure<br /><br />Thanks for the info, that's indeed interesting. (And BTW funny how you end up more northern than either of your parents - the fascinating effects of uneven inheritance!) The thing is, I don't remember which sites the Saxon cranial series from Germany were from. I think one may have been from Anderten near Hannover... In any case the tribal/linguistic area of the Saxons Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57118852269967556932018-10-02T15:09:11.905-07:002018-10-02T15:09:11.905-07:00Ermm correction sorry! They date long before the L...Ermm correction sorry! They date long before the LUSATIAN culture and Urnfield, of course. Unetice was EBA too, but an inhumating EBA culture, at that.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2279652162532926412018-10-02T15:05:56.093-07:002018-10-02T15:05:56.093-07:00@ andrew
Nice theory, but cleaarly wrong:
Before...@ andrew<br /><br />Nice theory, but cleaarly wrong:<br /><br />Before there was (purely indirect!) Bell Beaker influence in Northern Europe, the Corded Ware was already present there, in form of the Single Grave and Boat Axe cultures. The latter are merely historical special names for the local variants of the Corded Ware.<br /><br />And as you might know, the Norse branch of R1a, Z287, is Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52217341948146077922018-10-02T10:04:52.229-07:002018-10-02T10:04:52.229-07:00@Simon W:
"23andme does find some Italian aut...@Simon W:<br />"23andme does find some Italian autosomal admixture in France, but nowhere more than 1-5%:"<br /><br />Doesnt 23andMe claim their admixture predictions are "recent" (less than 500 years), wich makes it possibly based on "chunks" (pieces of DNA where several thousand alleles in a row are at least half identical) instead of a allele frequence based Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80722345797534639502018-10-02T06:40:20.745-07:002018-10-02T06:40:20.745-07:00@Simon-W interesting thoughts! But may be I'am...@Simon-W interesting thoughts! But may be I'am going to disturb this image:<br /><br />"Very interesting. The cline from Dutch_North over Dutch_Central and Dutch_South to Belgian looks beautiful! Dutch_North being close to Germany_Medieval and Belgian close to Hallstatt... a perfect continental European Germano-Celtic cline, you might say. <br /><br />Germany_Medieval looks firmly weurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217998844540373877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88405058109795500652018-09-27T19:36:56.588-07:002018-09-27T19:36:56.588-07:00@epoch
1100 BCE is widely viewed as the beginning...@epoch<br /><br />1100 BCE is widely viewed as the beginning of late Nordic Bronze Age in Southern Scandinavia based upon archaeological differences in goods and objects that shift at this time period. Most suggestively cremation begins to appear in Southern Scandinavia and many metal objects related to horses are found starting at this point in time.<br /><br />In my view, the early Nordic andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7380264155947082052018-09-24T14:38:52.643-07:002018-09-24T14:38:52.643-07:00As for the French: Not sure if that French sample ...As for the French: Not sure if that French sample really comes from the Lyonnais (@ Helgenes50); I always assumed it was a random collection of French people. France is diverse, no doubt, but on the whole the French average is surely more southern than the Belgians, and it doesn't make much sense to ascribe this to the Roman influence.<br /><br />23andme does find some Italian autosomal Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18783802491787072692018-09-24T08:21:13.330-07:002018-09-24T08:21:13.330-07:00Very interesting. The cline from Dutch_North over ...Very interesting. The cline from Dutch_North over Dutch_Central and Dutch_South to Belgian looks beautiful! Dutch_North being close to Germany_Medieval and Belgian close to Hallstatt... a perfect continental European Germano-Celtic cline, you might say. <br /><br />Germany_Medieval looks firmly nestled in a Germanic triangle there, between Dutch_North and Scandinavians. <br /><br />The Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81499204874921388302018-09-20T15:30:05.418-07:002018-09-20T15:30:05.418-07:00https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/20/4...https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/20/422295Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48753352891921325242018-09-20T03:12:22.283-07:002018-09-20T03:12:22.283-07:00@andrew
Would you care to elaborate on that? What...@andrew<br /><br />Would you care to elaborate on that? What archaeological evidence, for instance?epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3178416644824576342018-09-19T21:33:16.898-07:002018-09-19T21:33:16.898-07:00Based on archaeology I predict that there is a Cel...Based on archaeology I predict that there is a Celtic-like to Germanic-like population shift about midway through the Nordic Bronze Age (ca. 1200 BCE +/-) that will be revealed in ancient DNA.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11830726007197730612018-09-19T14:45:47.379-07:002018-09-19T14:45:47.379-07:00Nice plots, but it would be helpful if your data p...Nice plots, but it would be helpful if your data points and outlines consisted of different colors and symbols. It is somewhat difficult to see which outlines correspond to which ethnic groups.Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17427048752330192492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10387171243675684442018-09-19T08:57:05.400-07:002018-09-19T08:57:05.400-07:00Fair enough. I imagine even with samples it will b...Fair enough. I imagine even with samples it will be pretty hard to tell too given how closely related the groups are.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59000676740060152762018-09-19T05:53:19.960-07:002018-09-19T05:53:19.960-07:00Interesting plot! But in Past I get errors because...Interesting plot! But in Past I get errors because of the : in the first row and than the coloring, previous attempts with Global 25 datasets in Past went well...weurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217998844540373877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55738221778549069442018-09-19T04:23:30.718-07:002018-09-19T04:23:30.718-07:00@Ryan
There's probably some later Hallstatt a...@Ryan<br /><br /><i>There's probably some later Hallstatt admixture (David I'd be curious as to your thoughts on this aspect) and a smallish (~10-15%) older Neolithic layer but the bulk is going to be Beakers.</i><br /><br />I don't yet have an opinion about the Hallstatt stuff pending more Iron Age samples from Northwestern Europe, and also France.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29550298039347682722018-09-18T23:04:34.812-07:002018-09-18T23:04:34.812-07:00On further reading, I guess you've confused &#...On further reading, I guess you've confused 'Breton' - the name given to natives of Brittany, France, with 'Briton' the Celtic pre-Anglo Saxon inhabitants of the island.John Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454926902513067703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77346912575641191132018-09-18T23:01:38.578-07:002018-09-18T23:01:38.578-07:00Samuel,
The version usually taught in Brit...Samuel,<br /> The version usually taught in Britain is that the Bretons were Romanized Britons (hence their name) who fled Britain to escape the Anglo-Saxon invaders.John Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454926902513067703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68006037486960901832018-09-18T22:58:15.533-07:002018-09-18T22:58:15.533-07:00@Jen
If I am remembering correctly past papers, th...@Jen<br />If I am remembering correctly past papers, there were different waves of Anatolian farmers, with different HG admixture. In any case, from results published for Central France, where Mediterranean and Danubian waves rejoined, both populations looked extremely similar. <br />It is no surprise to find Belgian (Wallons?) close to Hallstatt, and to Celts from the Isles. BB inheritance and Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71557030653974444532018-09-18T19:50:01.707-07:002018-09-18T19:50:01.707-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.jonilalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09919827503950431871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76283160850847781052018-09-18T18:02:17.472-07:002018-09-18T18:02:17.472-07:00@Jen,
" I read that they have the "olde...@Jen,<br /><br />" I read that they have the "oldest" genepool in the UK per the Welcomb Trust study; what does that mean?"<br /><br />Historical records say the Welsh descend from the Bretons. Based only on historical records, they should have the oldest British ancestry. <br /><br />Who were the Bretons? That's the next question. Based on ancient DNA, we know for sure Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62199391596026168562018-09-18T16:49:39.126-07:002018-09-18T16:49:39.126-07:00@Jen - the Welsh are overwhelming Bronze Age Beake...@Jen - the Welsh are overwhelming Bronze Age Beaker folks. The lighter hair and skin should come from them too. There's probably some later Hallstatt admixture (David I'd be curious as to your thoughts on this aspect) and a smallish (~10-15%) older Neolithic layer but the bulk is going to be Beakers.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78974633156524528292018-09-18T16:37:16.766-07:002018-09-18T16:37:16.766-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.jonilalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09919827503950431871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57660480447365053892018-09-18T12:30:18.389-07:002018-09-18T12:30:18.389-07:00@Lukasz M
A mix of new and old.
@Lukasz M<br /><br />A mix of new and old.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11756025078950803962018-09-18T12:07:35.684-07:002018-09-18T12:07:35.684-07:00If you think about it, yes ancient DNA research ha...If you think about it, yes ancient DNA research has exploded in the last several years but in-depth research of modern populations has not.<br /><br />I can't think of many studies that have done in depth genome-wide research of modern pops. There was that study on Britain, ireland, Han Chinese, that's about all I can think of. <br /><br />The best there is on insightful information for Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.com