tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8548279651452931846..comments2024-03-28T11:48:42.197-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Graphing the truthDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger162125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90994503916739623942021-04-07T10:15:26.289-07:002021-04-07T10:15:26.289-07:00@Archi i read article which i can't find anymo...@Archi i read article which i can't find anymore about difference between India and China - China was characteristic in prefering cooking &boiling and later steaming, their porcelain reached India eatly but was never incorporated influencing their food preparing style & preferences because of ease of use & fitting rice farming, it was opposite, their culinary tastes were Ebrelioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10367484749034870991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23734532479279288862020-01-29T03:37:22.906-08:002020-01-29T03:37:22.906-08:00Target: Anatolia_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014
Distance: ...Target: Anatolia_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014<br />Distance: 3.0784% / 0.03078414<br />90.2 Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG<br />9.6 IRN_Wezmeh_N<br />0.2 GEO_CHG<br />0.0 Levant_Natufian<br />Target: Anatolia_Boncuklu_N:ZKO_BON001<br />Distance: 2.7632% / 0.02763180<br />92.0 Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG<br />4.0 GEO_CHG<br />4.0 IRN_Wezmeh_N<br />0.0 Levant_Natufian<br />Target: Anatolia_Boncuklu_N:ZHJ_BON024<br />CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28149237606447513012020-01-29T00:52:54.104-08:002020-01-29T00:52:54.104-08:00So maybe the Southern Border of where CHG proper c...So maybe the Southern Border of where CHG proper could be found was the Northern side of the Caucasus...with distant relatives South of it. My guess is that CHG ancestors was already as far North as the Lower Don between 17 000 and 14 000 years ago. So maybe separate from the Southern Caspian groups for at least 5000 years ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86152322946309887322020-01-29T00:27:14.684-08:002020-01-29T00:27:14.684-08:00When looking at where Bezoar Goats and West Caucas...When looking at where Bezoar Goats and West Caucasian Turs could have admixed and the Human Population who could have spread it, it seems to me that Haplogroup G were found South of the Caucasus/Georgia as early as 8000 BC. maybe displacing and or admixing with CHGs since then....?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90796501863599701332020-01-27T12:55:01.658-08:002020-01-27T12:55:01.658-08:00I know and believe that, but what do we know about...I know and believe that, but what do we know about the older populations South of the Caucasus, like the Northern M'lefaatian? Couldn't they have been closer to CHG than to the Iranian farmers? Where was the Southern border of CHG 10.000 BC? Was the Iranian farmer already existing in its later form? Where exactly? Aren't these unanswered questions? zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26212953126303217632020-01-27T12:43:54.754-08:002020-01-27T12:43:54.754-08:00There's obvious genetic continuity between CHG...There's obvious genetic continuity between CHG and Meshoko, and the main difference between CHG and Meshoko is a greater level of Anatolian ancestry in Meshoko.<br /><br />Meshoko is basically CHG with more Anatolian ancestry. There are no indications that it carries any ancestry from Iran.<br /><br />Steppe Eneolithic is also more closely related to CHG than to Iranian farmers.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1069479480822054572020-01-27T12:22:23.645-08:002020-01-27T12:22:23.645-08:00CrM: Still there is a gap of time and place betwee...CrM: Still there is a gap of time and place between GD and the Northern M'lefaatian.<br />So if an Eastern group (ancestors of GD) had the demographic and cultural edge, they COULD have replaced an earlier, different (e.g. more CHG like) population.<br />Just saying we don’t know for sure yet.zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50815960697412918622020-01-27T11:12:19.090-08:002020-01-27T11:12:19.090-08:00@Sarah
I don't have any opinion about that. L...@Sarah<br /><br />I don't have any opinion about that. Let's wait for the data.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3870130283994397202020-01-27T07:12:26.345-08:002020-01-27T07:12:26.345-08:00@davidski
What do you think about the paternal hap...@davidski<br />What do you think about the paternal haplogroups of Neolithic Eastern Anatolia?Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05588430524810203945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49350279547806040822020-01-27T05:34:24.401-08:002020-01-27T05:34:24.401-08:00@zardos
WC1 should be closest to Zarzian, but it ...@zardos<br /><br />WC1 should be closest to Zarzian, but it dates a few millennia after the Zarzian culture. Nonetheless it probably is the best proxy we have to Zarzian, and it is very close to GD genetically, which in turn is closer to the Zarzian timeline. <br /><br />CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73895640210383211722020-01-27T05:20:45.662-08:002020-01-27T05:20:45.662-08:00What do you mean? The M'lefaatians were the ac...What do you mean? The M'lefaatians were the aceramic people of the Eastern fertile crescent after the Zarzian. They were largely independent from the Western groups and started to build settlements.<br />Some researchers recently suggested that elements of the early Lower Don culture show similarities. The timing with an influence reaching the coastal Black Sea region about 8.000 BC seems zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28582764987263798952020-01-27T04:54:03.558-08:002020-01-27T04:54:03.558-08:00Which ones are the Zarzian and M'lefaatian?Which ones are the Zarzian and M'lefaatian?<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68991901218312533002020-01-27T04:20:16.162-08:002020-01-27T04:20:16.162-08:00What are the closest samples out to the Zarzian an...What are the closest samples out to the Zarzian and M'lefaatian? If, just if, Transcaucasian migrations reached the Northern Pontic region, they are most likely from these people. zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8811505587982780792020-01-27T00:47:30.901-08:002020-01-27T00:47:30.901-08:00@Davidski
Hopefully we will get more data.
From ...@Davidski<br /><br />Hopefully we will get more data.<br /><br />From what I see either G2a1a was introduced to the Caucasus by Chalcolithic Anatolian farmers rich with Iran_N ancestry,<br />or G2 was present in CHG from the start and was passed on to them by a population that was ancestral to both CHG and Iran_N, perhaps connected to the Baradostian, Zarzian and Trialetian cultures. CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20166164326498298482020-01-27T00:36:39.725-08:002020-01-27T00:36:39.725-08:00@CrM
We need more data, especially from eastern A...@CrM<br /><br />We need more data, especially from eastern Anatolia.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59687292204784471082020-01-27T00:34:27.388-08:002020-01-27T00:34:27.388-08:00@Davidski
You're right, I'm talking about...@Davidski<br /><br />You're right, I'm talking about I1671. When I tested him he showed some slight Natufian and Anatolian ancestry, but what I want to make clear is this:<br />Did Anatolians ever had G2a prior to mixing with Iranians? Pinarbasi was C and as far as I know lacked Iran_N admixture that later was found in Boncuklu and Barcin.<br />Iran_N had all the G variety, while CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13177165001061573872020-01-27T00:20:47.803-08:002020-01-27T00:20:47.803-08:00@CrM
I'm not aware of any G2a1a in Early Neol...@CrM<br /><br />I'm not aware of any G2a1a in Early Neolithic Iranian farmers. The sample from the Wezmeh Cave belongs to G2b2.<br /><br />G2a1a does show up in a Late Neolithic Iranian farmer, but that individual clearly has some Anatolian ancestry.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27740501976759721912020-01-26T23:57:50.608-08:002020-01-26T23:57:50.608-08:00@Davidski
Yes, but far as I know Anatolians only ...@Davidski<br /><br />Yes, but far as I know Anatolians only had a specific G2a clade thanks to founder effect, while the Caucasus G2a1a was not found among Anatolians, but it was found in Iran_N. Unless I'm wrong? <br />CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41046278377470915372020-01-26T23:00:45.313-08:002020-01-26T23:00:45.313-08:00@CrM
Do you think it is possible that G2a1a was a...@CrM<br /><br /><i>Do you think it is possible that G2a1a was also present in CHG?</i><br /><br />Only ancient DNA will tell.<br /><br />But obviously there was a significant rise of Anatolian ancestry in the Caucasus after the Mesolithic, so G2a might be associated with this genetic shift.<br /><br />Also, keep in mind that CHG didn't live in Iran. It was only found in the Caucasus. The Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29611752779464968022020-01-26T22:21:13.182-08:002020-01-26T22:21:13.182-08:00@Davidski
What do you think of the YDNA variety i...@Davidski<br /><br />What do you think of the YDNA variety in Iran_N(J2, G2a, G2b, G1, R2)?<br />Do you think it is possible that G2a1a was also present in CHG? CrMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12360895607673279887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-556245477120719842020-01-25T00:59:15.921-08:002020-01-25T00:59:15.921-08:00@ Andrzejewski
I always thought that Elshanka were...@ Andrzejewski<br /><i>I always thought that Elshanka were CHG</i><br /><br />They were EHG.Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43782596974660843312020-01-24T21:50:29.996-08:002020-01-24T21:50:29.996-08:00 @ Sam
“ Sam
“mtDNA is a good shortcut to answer... @ Sam<br /><br />“ Sam<br /><br />“mtDNA is a good shortcut to answers. For example, based on some models the experts believed WHG originated in the Middle East”<br /><br />Exactly ; it doesn’t pan out . = The perils of blind statistical constructs in absence of collateral understanding Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12382718447692454262020-01-24T21:35:42.180-08:002020-01-24T21:35:42.180-08:00@ Davidski
“Frank talks out of his ass a lot.”
...@ Davidski <br /><br />“Frank talks out of his ass a lot.”<br /><br />He has overemphasised the importance of the low-grade connections to be sure; but that post his highlights hunter-gatherer networks in incipient ceramicization in Central Eurasia, as outlined by Russian scholars Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16055225006302208182020-01-24T21:10:10.501-08:002020-01-24T21:10:10.501-08:00@Samuel Andrews “Literally all mtDNA from EHG and ...@Samuel Andrews “Literally all mtDNA from EHG and Ukraine HGs is U5 and U4. None so far have a Near Eastern haplogroup. However, mtDNA H has been found in a few Serbia HGs and in one Baltic HG. But both are 99% U5, U4. Same with Scandinavian HGs who had a lot of EHG ancestry.“<br /><br />Ukraine HG ARE her basis of Yamnaya mtDNA. I wouldn’t be surprised if what Reich and other researchers Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20176614915371639882020-01-24T20:41:21.615-08:002020-01-24T20:41:21.615-08:00Obviously, we don't have much ancient DNA to g...Obviously, we don't have much ancient DNA to go on to know the formation of Mesolithic Europe & Middle East/.<br /><br />mtDNA is a good shortcut to answers. For example, based on some models the experts believed WHG originated in the Middle East only 15ky and that Anatolian farmers had recent WHG ancestry. And, mtDNA showed this was impossible before ancient DNA proved it was false.<br /Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.com