tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8562835860866927655..comments2024-03-19T02:38:12.460-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Bronze Age Central Asia: terra incognita no longerDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger256125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16958304696023913432021-03-14T20:59:36.890-07:002021-03-14T20:59:36.890-07:00My MtDNA is U1a1d. I am curious about where this h...My MtDNA is U1a1d. I am curious about where this haplogroup originated and the earliest migrations. Do any of you know the answer?Aliyahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08045502890461191197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3718151783952532082018-04-15T22:19:07.796-07:002018-04-15T22:19:07.796-07:00Reza,
I nearly missed you:
44.65% Shahr_I_Sokhta...Reza,<br /><br />I nearly missed you:<br /><br />44.65% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 (IVC_Diaspora_West_Eurasian)<br />33.95% AASI<br />13.30% Kashkarchi_BA (Steppe_MLBA_East)<br />4.65% Cambodian<br />2.55% Mongola<br />0.90% West_Siberia_N<br /><br />Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 is the IVC diaspora sample which is essentially West Eurasian (only 10%-20% AASI), so only a small percentage of AASI is covered by it.Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26704379278621018332018-04-15T15:29:38.272-07:002018-04-15T15:29:38.272-07:00@Vara
But, obviously, steppe ancestry is already ...@Vara<br /><br />But, obviously, steppe ancestry is already present in early Iron Age Swat. So it arrived during the Bronze Age, not the Iron Age.<br /><br />So, as I said, you're not making any sense.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76838679325491263742018-04-15T15:18:55.620-07:002018-04-15T15:18:55.620-07:00@Davidski
They brought steppe ancestry in the Iro...@Davidski<br /><br />They brought steppe ancestry in the Iron Age. So that disproves Andronovo bringing Indo-Iranian languages. Mycenaeans picked their steppe ancestry from Thrace on their way to Greece. <br /><br />I'd like an answer to my question: who were the non-Indo-Iranian Indo-Iranians?Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41840472274315763282018-04-15T15:13:07.241-07:002018-04-15T15:13:07.241-07:00@Vara
Sorry, but current evidence supports Greco-...@Vara<br /><br /><i>Sorry, but current evidence supports Greco-Aryan from the south.</i><br /><br />Well obviously it doesn't, so don't pretend otherwise.<br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/andronovo-pastoralists-brought-steppe.html" rel="nofollow">Andronovo pastoralists brought steppe ancestry to South Asia (Narasimhan et al. 2018 preprint)</a><br /><br /><a Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76679582958142345412018-04-15T15:03:49.579-07:002018-04-15T15:03:49.579-07:00"Indo-Iranian and Hittite separated millennia..."Indo-Iranian and Hittite separated millennia apart from PIE."<br /><br />Where did I say otherwise? Of course you ignored all my points and went for a strawman.<br /><br />Sorry, but current evidence supports Greco-Aryan from the south.<br /><br />Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20236633529069217082018-04-15T12:34:39.739-07:002018-04-15T12:34:39.739-07:00@ epoch2013
Maybe a colony of Steppe traders ? Tr...@ epoch2013<br /><br />Maybe a colony of Steppe traders ? Traders did not need to arrive with one bulky migration ? How can traders be traced if they carried all kinds of tradable goods from different cultures and trading these goods on their for new local goods ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83784850871721680152018-04-15T12:14:02.752-07:002018-04-15T12:14:02.752-07:00@Ric Hern
Something like that. Or Leyla-Tepe was ...@Ric Hern<br /><br />Something like that. Or Leyla-Tepe was a "first pulse" or whatever. Hell, maybe even the first pulse that caused Anatolian, even if Agamemnon on Anthrogenica once made compelling arguments against a Caucasian route.<br /><br />Frankly, I don't have a clue. But why not speculate? Say: Leyla-Tepe were the first Steppe people migrating and their new feature, the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68920646508638365172018-04-15T10:57:22.280-07:002018-04-15T10:57:22.280-07:00@epoch2013
Yes it doesn't seem to be too far...@epoch2013 <br /><br />Yes it doesn't seem to be too far fetched especially now that we have seen how Steppe people adopted the Bell Beaker Culture...<br /><br />Could it be that the Maykop was a backmigration of this Southward exploring Steppe people ? Maybe due to desertification or pressure from other Southern Populations...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21990050772206774102018-04-15T10:51:06.973-07:002018-04-15T10:51:06.973-07:00@epoch2013
Yes it doesn't seem to be too far...@epoch2013 <br /><br />Yes it doesn't seem to be too far fetched especially now that we have seen how Steppe people adopted the Bell Beaker Culture...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33863184985692030392018-04-15T07:43:08.216-07:002018-04-15T07:43:08.216-07:00@Ric Hern
How about an incursion into Maykop and ...@Ric Hern<br /><br />How about an incursion into Maykop and even Leila-Tepe where the first Kurgans were found? They are contemporaneous to Khvalynsk and an interesting feature is that the Leila-Tepe yielded a horse head sceptre, just like in some of the Khvalynsk non-kurgan or proto-kurgan burials.<br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68613661333439948532018-04-15T04:54:11.035-07:002018-04-15T04:54:11.035-07:00Something interesting about Horses.
https://www.r...Something interesting about Horses.<br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304711332_The_introduction_of_the_domesticated_horse_in_Southwest_Asia<br /><br />Looks like Domesticated Horses spread from the Steppe during the Chalcolithic to Azerbaijan, Armenia and Northwestern Iran. Did Steppe people exchange horses for women ? <br /><br />Did Steppe people migrate Southwards with theirRic Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23268519847247477292018-04-15T04:19:27.356-07:002018-04-15T04:19:27.356-07:00@Alberto, thank you, also had a look at proportion...@Alberto, thank you, also had a look at proportions from some more iterations of the trees David ran for me, as I think looking at them together with the main graph could us some things, though I think the main graph should probably be best (despite a worse final Z) because of the number of populations present.<br /><br />So: https://imgur.com/a/hvizn<br /><br />It looks like:<br /><br />a) In Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22300354058316962672018-04-15T01:56:06.580-07:002018-04-15T01:56:06.580-07:00@Rob
So it's a tad premature to talk of a mod...@Rob<br /><br />So it's a tad premature to talk of a model.<br /><br />Similar with the R1b HF sample. Even if it's totally legitimate it would mean little in the language debate. Would one R1b sample, pretty downstream, in an area where there isn't any other R1b, <i>let alone</i> a high R1b diversity pointing to a pool from which this sample could have emerged, in an area where thereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23650847004217661662018-04-15T01:51:35.199-07:002018-04-15T01:51:35.199-07:00"As for the Indo-Iranian question itself, the..."As for the Indo-Iranian question itself, the reason my favored hypothesis was the Armenian hypothesis is that because it could explain Indo-Iranian and Hittite."<br /><br />This is ridiculous. Indo-Iranian and Hittite separated millennia apart from PIE. Look at Hittite and Tocharian and their attested positions in the world. These are the two most archaic IE languages and their Archaeloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442251558517281095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27185253908985098332018-04-14T16:24:28.926-07:002018-04-14T16:24:28.926-07:00@ Dave
I think it’s great more data is coming
Giv...@ Dave<br />I think it’s great more data is coming <br />Given that I have not been making an bold proclamations, and am not above believing that migrations have occurred to South Asia as any other region in the world, more data can only make me happier.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76356108439223229382018-04-14T16:15:51.152-07:002018-04-14T16:15:51.152-07:00How would more Eastern populations from the subcon...How would more Eastern populations from the subcontinent with probable Austroasiatic admixture, like Bengalis,fare with the three way population mix? What other proxies might you add?<br /><br />@Sein, would you be kind enough to run my mother's results, these are the updated coordinates. <br /><br />Reza_M,0.0039,-0.0102,-0.0351,0.0288,-0.0165,0.0206,0,0.0041,0.017,0.0112,-0.0022,-0.0014,Rezahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07552902898493310858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9169233883092174042018-04-14T16:02:05.678-07:002018-04-14T16:02:05.678-07:00@Rob
More samples are on the way. And they won...@Rob<br /><br />More samples are on the way. And they won't bring good news for you.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16984806326733519232018-04-14T16:00:21.239-07:002018-04-14T16:00:21.239-07:00Yes dave I know it irritated you .
Seems like you’...Yes dave I know it irritated you .<br />Seems like you’re also not completely satisfied with the South Asia paper, because it didn’t bring to fruition your nuanced predictions of “crashing into Asia, bigly ” which is why you and the usual stooges are now trying to claim that HF sample is infact a Bronze age migrant from the steppe<br />Keep the comedy coming mate.<br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4163230774414728312018-04-14T15:47:57.761-07:002018-04-14T15:47:57.761-07:00Krause's model was never published because it ...Krause's model was never published because it was a total fail for South Asia. I pointed this out in the comments here...<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/10/dead-cat-bounce.html<br /><br />After Krause did his talk in Moscow, Nick Patterson was invited to Max Planck to give them a lecture on the peopling of South Asia. And it looks like they dropped their model.<br /><br />TheirDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70783478239631055722018-04-14T15:40:23.209-07:002018-04-14T15:40:23.209-07:00@ Vara
Very interesting points
Quite refreshing t...@ Vara <br />Very interesting points<br />Quite refreshing to get views from informed individuals Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75934335001087520962018-04-14T15:29:19.928-07:002018-04-14T15:29:19.928-07:00@ Epoch
You’ll know about it when it is. Naturally...@ Epoch<br />You’ll know about it when it is. Naturally, I can’t say much , but if your observe around you might be able to figure out for yourself what might be coming to help add to the puzzles (eg see rozenfelds posts)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8562955500095925022018-04-14T14:59:51.967-07:002018-04-14T14:59:51.967-07:00Here is my comment again:
As for the Indo-Iranian...Here is my comment again:<br /><br />As for the Indo-Iranian question itself, the reason my favored hypothesis was the Armenian hypothesis is that because it could explain Indo-Iranian and Hittite. Before Kuzmina there was Viktor Sarianidi the OG of archaeology, and he himself believed in a South East Iranian homeland for Indo-Iranians basing it on traditions of metallurgy and religion found in Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91029330020931886342018-04-14T14:11:04.956-07:002018-04-14T14:11:04.956-07:00@Anthro Survey
Nice to see that Xmix works for yo...@Anthro Survey<br /><br />Nice to see that Xmix works for you. And that we're getting more or less equivalent results (though this should not be surprising, really). You already commented the results, so not much to add about it.<br /><br />Just a tip: you can place just one population as the source and the Global_25 datasheet as the target and it will show you the distance between the sourceAlbertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78409600842069416342018-04-14T13:43:35.142-07:002018-04-14T13:43:35.142-07:00@Davidski, cheers mate, thanks very much for runni...@Davidski, cheers mate, thanks very much for running these.<br /><br />I've summarized the main results from the main tree (once I sorted my dumbwitted self out on the right qpGraph), here: https://imgur.com/a/5LCin<br /><br />It basically looks like, if we consider the level of Basal Eurasian, Gonur2_BA without AASI is more like CHG than it is Iran_N/Abdul_Hosein_N. <br /><br />So I'd Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.com