tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8754883487297206682..comments2024-03-19T01:54:52.313-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The Poltavka outlierDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger348125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-177013917004626262017-01-07T04:48:31.880-08:002017-01-07T04:48:31.880-08:00My mtDNA lineage,H6a1a, follows Indo-European R1a ...My mtDNA lineage,H6a1a, follows Indo-European R1a & R1b migrations. Hopefully, someday I will find out if H6a is was born in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe or south of the Steppes. H6a has a strong presence in Central Asia today. I'm looking at pre-Yamnaya Cultures that could have brought the lineage into the Yamnaya and then into Central Europe. Wondering if the Elshanka Culture, 6500 BCE, jvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69303508169620955062016-01-30T08:27:10.480-08:002016-01-30T08:27:10.480-08:00Dave,
Damn it!, anyway, about Poland and W Russia ...Dave,<br />Damn it!, anyway, about Poland and W Russia , what is the frequency of Z-93? around 5%? or much less?.<br />And in Poland, your ethnic country , is there any pattern regarding the distribution?, i mean can the mutation ( Z-93 ) be specified to any particular group of people in Poland as dominant?.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43083862262653247392016-01-30T07:44:25.011-08:002016-01-30T07:44:25.011-08:00@Davidski: what do you mean by "basal"? ...@Davidski: what do you mean by "basal"? Because there is ill characterized Z93* that is mostly non-basal but actually highly derived in the haplotype tree, just that the corresponding sub-haplogroup(s) has/have not yet been described. Are you talking of that or is there actually something to your claim?<br /><br />Also source, please.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-842155742438547062016-01-30T07:29:33.959-08:002016-01-30T07:29:33.959-08:00No idea...???
But basal forms of Z93 are found in...No idea...???<br /><br />But basal forms of Z93 are found in Poland and western Russia.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40683247274632198242016-01-30T03:02:54.013-08:002016-01-30T03:02:54.013-08:00Mate,
Can you give me any data regarding the moder...Mate,<br />Can you give me any data regarding the modern R1a-Z93 distribution in Ukraine?, i need it .Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70602722295888939332016-01-27T04:54:01.178-08:002016-01-27T04:54:01.178-08:00It's outdated. Their estimates are way off bec...It's outdated. Their estimates are way off because...<br /><br /><i>Evolutionary time estimates were calculated according to Zhivotovsky et al. [15] and STR mutation rate was assumed to be 6.9 × 10 -4 per 25 years.</i><br /><br />This is the latest on South Asian R1a using full Y-chromosome sequences.<br /><br /><i>We estimate that several lineages within the European R1b, sub-Saharan AfricanDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11145150299053528002016-01-27T04:10:58.179-08:002016-01-27T04:10:58.179-08:00David: Any comments on
http://www.omicsonline.org...David: Any comments on <br />http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/the-major-ychromosome-haplotype-xi--haplogroup-r1a-in-eurasia-2161-1041-1000150.pdf<br /><br />They propose a TMRCA of 15.5kya for Z93 and 12.5kya for Z280 !vvv666https://www.blogger.com/profile/05232051233080015896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21254196399044044122016-01-20T08:56:03.268-08:002016-01-20T08:56:03.268-08:00@FrankN @Kristiina @Rob
We can leave out an Illyri...@FrankN @Kristiina @Rob<br />We can leave out an Illyrian-Venetic group. From what we know of Illyrian grammar it groups with Thracian (the Indo-European voiced aspirates /bʰ/, /dʰ/, /gʰ/ became voiced consonants /b/, /d/, /g/). That is a fundamental difference from Venetic which is part of Italic group and we know that in Italic group all of them (Italic languages) have voiceless fricatives (f- Aigesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15779806339150245306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29320562999357274502016-01-19T17:30:03.622-08:002016-01-19T17:30:03.622-08:00(continued....)
(3) "On the other hand, for...(continued....)<br /><br /><br />(3) "On the other hand, for Yamnaya, we can postulate patrilineage clans, as they were rather mobile with some social complexity and stratification seen in elite burials, which we can see in context with the extremely homogeneous Y-DNA patterns, as well as obvious signs of intergroup violence. "<br /><br /><br />Yamnaya isn't too different, to CWC, Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61439927688153766782016-01-19T17:29:42.746-08:002016-01-19T17:29:42.746-08:001) "Rob, there is a lot of variance in autoso...<br />1) "Rob, there is a lot of variance in autosomal ancestry in the cultures at this time. Looking at these, matching them with archaeological context and burial goods, and also Y-dna patterns, should be quite productive, no?"<br /><br />-> Yes. But I think we have already a fairly decent idea, but deeper look is always warranted. <br /><br /><br /><br />2) "A question that Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38978206200843631172016-01-19T13:34:27.195-08:002016-01-19T13:34:27.195-08:00Postneo,
The SC Asians on that plot are Tajiks an...Postneo,<br /><br />The SC Asians on that plot are Tajiks and Pashtuns from Afghanistan.<br /><br />Indians generally have too much ASI to be included in a West Eurasian PCA like this.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38220415970001720742016-01-19T12:12:43.973-08:002016-01-19T12:12:43.973-08:00@ R.K.:
I think we need to be aware of the general...@ R.K.:<br />I think we need to be aware of the general limitations of aDNA. Not all cultures buried their dead uncremated. And even for some of those that did, e.g. LBK, there is huge misproportion between the settlement finds and the number of recovered graves. So, whatever reaches us as aDNA comes from non-randomly stratified contexts and is not representative (still, its better than having FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7678111216610924832016-01-19T11:41:21.339-08:002016-01-19T11:41:21.339-08:00Frank, the Finnish word for Russia is 'Venäjä&...Frank, the Finnish word for Russia is 'Venäjä' (in the meaning of Polish (?) Slavs), and it is related to OHG Winida, so this Finnish word and Vistula Veneti ("Wenden"), you mentioned, match pretty well with your working hypothesis and the Pomeranian face-urn culture.<br /><br />Frank, on a more private level, I have also Inkscape in my computer for linguistic research purposes,Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90965565392383944392016-01-19T09:54:49.823-08:002016-01-19T09:54:49.823-08:00https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQVDdXd...https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o3EYTdM8lQVDdXdFJSVk1CQnM/view<br /><br />Is it possible to resolve the grey xs that say SC asia further ? Its a very large bracket with many sub regions. Are any peninsular indian populations in this plot?postneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3527387471188480412016-01-19T09:42:50.006-08:002016-01-19T09:42:50.006-08:00ADDENDUM on Venetic: I had in another context ment...ADDENDUM on Venetic: I had in another context mentionned the difference between the Celtic <i>*brig</i> "hill, hilltop settlement" and the East Alpine, possibly Venetic, toponyms Virgl, Wörgl. Interestingly, Czech has <i>vrch</i> "hill, peak" in addition to the common Slavic <i>hora</i>. FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2081286815541915262016-01-19T09:26:18.611-08:002016-01-19T09:26:18.611-08:00@Kristina: Jaeger's automated lexical analysis...@Kristina: Jaeger's automated lexical analysis has an interesting grouping popping up in the "unfiltered" modus, i.e. still including "rogue taxa":<br />Albanian and Goidelic form a common branch, which constitutes the earliest split out of European IE, before it diverges further into Balto-Slavic and Germano-Italic (Bryhonic languages become part of the Italic branch, FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29204101953896428962016-01-19T08:43:28.641-08:002016-01-19T08:43:28.641-08:00@Krstiina: FYI Basque "burdin" (iron) al...@Krstiina: FYI Basque "burdin" (iron) also seems to be derived from the same Phoenician root. It makes all sense as the Phoenicians were the ones introducing the metal (as used in metallurgy, mostly as steel) in the West Mediterranean. As for Alb. 'hekur' I'd tentatively associate it with pre-IE metal terms such as Basque "urre", Lat. "aurum" and Greek Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26738551833712837192016-01-19T08:26:14.939-08:002016-01-19T08:26:14.939-08:00@rob: I am using Inkscape as well, so we would not...@rob: I am using Inkscape as well, so we would not have any problems exchanging data. Hatching is obviously a bit more difficult with Inkscape, but otherwise filling etc. can be easiliy changed. We can also test combinations of outlines and shaded fills to see what best conveys the idea of the processes that took place from one period to the next.<br /><br />I am not yet sure if your time slicingFrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-361426686763550052016-01-19T08:24:09.761-08:002016-01-19T08:24:09.761-08:00Latin word for iron is 'ferrum' and it has...Latin word for iron is 'ferrum' and it has a completely different etymology, cfr. Sumerian barzil, Phoenician barzel, Classical Syriac ܦܪܙܠܐ (parzlā), iron. This word may have entered Latin through Etruscan. The Albanian language shares several roots with few Illyrian words that are known to us but the Albanian word for iron is 'hekur' and it is of obscure etymology. So, it looksKristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67571918876695433712016-01-19T07:48:08.517-08:002016-01-19T07:48:08.517-08:00Ryan, I cannot give you any comprehensive opinion ...Ryan, I cannot give you any comprehensive opinion because I know so little about Illyrian, but I have previously made an interesting comparison between words meaning 'red' and 'iron', which might be of interest in this context as metal working is considered an important part of Bronze Age and Iron Age yDNA changes. <br /><br />Word for 'red" is similar in many European Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4944171785311003532016-01-19T05:57:21.641-08:002016-01-19T05:57:21.641-08:00@ Rob
Rob, there is a lot of variance in autosoma...@ Rob<br /><br />Rob, there is a lot of variance in autosomal ancestry in the cultures at this time. Looking at these, matching them with archaeological context and burial goods, and also Y-dna patterns, should be quite productive, no?<br /><br />A question that naturally follows is, why would a culture of small household units have homogeneous Y-DNA patterns, indicating recent common Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81684007714001479712016-01-19T04:41:25.298-08:002016-01-19T04:41:25.298-08:00I have lots to read (thank you, Rob) and do, so I ...I have lots to read (thank you, Rob) and do, so I can't really continue the discussion (feel free to insist if you think I left some important part of the discussion unfinished). I'm anyhow perplex by what "a" said: I must say I really don't understand what he/she means (there's no thesis nor conclusion attached to that listing of lineages).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26435243457479568372016-01-19T03:21:54.990-08:002016-01-19T03:21:54.990-08:00@ R.K.
* we can map different versions of maps -...@ R.K. <br /><br />* we can map different versions of maps - some more detailed site -wise, some more 'zoomed out' to add other details, eg aDNA data<br /><br />* "Have you taken a look at the individual descriptions in the supplementary information systematically". No. not for all papers published so far. What exactly are you asking ? <br /><br />* " What do you think theyRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90318087574199350192016-01-19T02:34:51.522-08:002016-01-19T02:34:51.522-08:00@ Rob
Rob, thank you for your efforts. If you coul...@ Rob<br />Rob, thank you for your efforts. If you could keep the maps relatively free of clutter, we can also add markings for aDNA findings, indicating Autosomal and Y-DNA, should you wish.<br /><br />@ Rob @ FrankN<br />Have you taken a look at the individual descriptions in the supplementary information systematically? What do you think they suggest for some of the sociological scenarios Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45713359326869928662016-01-18T21:13:15.782-08:002016-01-18T21:13:15.782-08:00FrankN
OK, lets include Italy and northern Europe...FrankN<br /><br />OK, lets include Italy and northern Europe more. <br />I was using inkscape or Paint.NET, using sepia-ized maps of Europe (which include rivers and mountains, which I think are important). I can email you them. I also not wholly decided whether to use 'colour-blot' or patterns (zig-zags, dots, etc) to depict different areas , not sure what would look more presentable or Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com