tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post946412931698574102..comments2024-03-28T10:03:24.453-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Latest linguistics research backs the Indo-European steppe hypothesisDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger126125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43919299127741745772016-06-01T10:03:40.297-07:002016-06-01T10:03:40.297-07:00Musing: (Earlier from Dead Sea, NW to Anatolia, sp...Musing: (Earlier from Dead Sea, NW to Anatolia, split north around Black Sea, east branch gets horse/xorsa/Kazhkar(Kazak-Khazar) and loops around to south Urals meeting Balkanized west branch? DDedenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10033851770461086341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46880788981413445002016-04-19T15:44:28.586-07:002016-04-19T15:44:28.586-07:00You are invited to read my publications on the Ind...You are invited to read my publications on the Indo-European issues<br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sujay_Rao_Mandavilli/publications<br /><br />Sujay Rao Mandavilli<br /><br /><br />Sujay Rao Mandavillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03155433217750866984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75321209213174957462015-03-25T09:05:15.901-07:002015-03-25T09:05:15.901-07:00By the way, interesting that Greek, Armenian and A...By the way, interesting that Greek, Armenian and Albanian split from the mainstream right after the Hittites and Tocharians. In all previous linguistic trees I've seen it was Italo-Celtic that split off third. <br /><br />If Italo-Celtic came from the Yamnaya in the Carpathian Basin (which is the most likely hypothesis imo) then an early split of Italo-Celtic from the rest of IE would mean Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33441443536109979842015-02-20T08:39:43.955-08:002015-02-20T08:39:43.955-08:00@Marnie
You are so weird. Or trolling hard, I can...@Marnie<br /><br />You are so weird. Or trolling hard, I can't decide.<br /><br />Anyway, re: Phrygians, have you seen the Gordion Archaeological Project?<br /><br />http://sites.museum.upenn.edu/gordion<br /><br />According to them, at the transition from the Hittite-influenced Late Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age at Gordion (later capital of the Phrygians), there are "clear changes incapra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79370566226847720752015-02-20T07:29:15.515-08:002015-02-20T07:29:15.515-08:00@Collin
Like I said, its just a comment about myt...@Collin<br /><br />Like I said, its just a comment about mythology. I won't be sharing my thoughts further, given the close minded attitude that both you and Krefter seem to have.<br /><br />Rather than wasting my time quibling about gender roles and mythology last night, instead I read a great recent paper about ceramics and the Mesolithic/Neolithic transition in the Balkans.<br /><br />But Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20800951409670669012015-02-20T07:23:24.794-08:002015-02-20T07:23:24.794-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51430426511086264462015-02-20T03:31:41.840-08:002015-02-20T03:31:41.840-08:00@Colin Welling
"You're wrong grey, a spe...@Colin Welling<br /><br />"You're wrong grey, a special elite did not change the autosomal landscape of europe, a mass migration did."<br /><br />I only mentioned gods and a possible model - a maimed god married to the prime fertility goddess.<br /><br />That part might only require an elite replacement.<br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57992499594045744922015-02-20T03:25:24.932-08:002015-02-20T03:25:24.932-08:00I don't think the early Greeks were strictly p...<i>I don't think the early Greeks were strictly patriarchal in their religious beliefs - given that there were so many female dieties. Athena? Demetra? Hera?<br /><br />This seems at odds with the Steppe hypothesis.</i><br /><br /><i>I think the steppe hypothesis would imply that where the IE took over as a new elite over a pre-existing society you should look for a god who was originally pnuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11902973565704018427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60518530379063801082015-02-20T00:29:54.877-08:002015-02-20T00:29:54.877-08:00@Marnie
"I don't think the early Greeks ...@Marnie<br /><br />"I don't think the early Greeks were strictly patriarchal in their religious beliefs - given that there were so many female dieties. Athena? Demetra? Hera?<br /><br />This seems at odds with the Steppe hypothesis."<br /><br />I think the steppe hypothesis would imply that where the IE took over as a new elite over a pre-existing society you should look for a god Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73037198582762671822015-02-19T22:53:17.460-08:002015-02-19T22:53:17.460-08:00@Krefter
I'm not interested in getting in ano...@Krefter<br /><br />I'm not interested in getting in another long and drawn out discussion about "gender roles" with you.<br /><br />It's just a comment about mythology. That's all.<br /><br />God forbid that anyone should question the all sacred "Steppe Only Hypothesis."Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45880084704035214972015-02-19T21:14:54.343-08:002015-02-19T21:14:54.343-08:00@Marnie,
"Have many thoughts about something ...@Marnie,<br />"Have many thoughts about something Roy said about the Luwians yesterday, and about the religious beliefs of the Early Greeks. I don't think the early Greeks were strictly patriarchal in their religious beliefs - given that there were so many female dieties. Athena? Demetra? Hera?<br /><br />This seems at odds with the Steppe hypothesis."<br /><br />I lack knowledge onKrefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32441501165929446472015-02-19T18:55:57.787-08:002015-02-19T18:55:57.787-08:00Laz
I'm not saying the current "homeland ...Laz<br />I'm not saying the current "homeland " models and their explanations are right ; but the modern IE really are related and it's not an artefact of the analysis proces itself. However the tree model as currently constructed is not correctAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68816889622815507572015-02-19T18:37:44.767-08:002015-02-19T18:37:44.767-08:00@Mike
" (falsely) takes the alleged Herodete...@Mike<br /><br />" (falsely) takes the alleged Herodetean Phrygian migration at face value "<br /><br />Yeah. Herodetean account obviously too simplistic.<br /><br />Have many thoughts about something Roy said about the Luwians yesterday, and about the religious beliefs of the Early Greeks. I don't think the early Greeks were strictly patriarchal in their religious beliefs - givenMarniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7028130858107596512015-02-19T17:51:20.794-08:002015-02-19T17:51:20.794-08:00Yes implying a greater antiquity of language conta...Yes implying a greater antiquity of language contact between balkans and Asia minor thanngenerally assumed if one (falsely) takes the alleged Herodetean Phrygian migration at face value Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66233593055979089492015-02-19T17:27:53.567-08:002015-02-19T17:27:53.567-08:00@Mike
"There are recent perspectives which v...@Mike<br /><br />"There are recent perspectives which view the Phrygians as local developments in westenr anatolia from the Bronze Age; which certainly raises questions about linguistic prehistory given their well known connections to ancient balkan IE languages like greek; Paeonians and ancient Macedonian."<br /><br /><br />I agree.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7668580031379873462015-02-19T17:23:41.031-08:002015-02-19T17:23:41.031-08:00@Mike
"The theory that Phrygians came from t...@Mike<br /><br />"The theory that Phrygians came from the Balkans has little solid evidence apart from Herodotus "<br /><br />I didn't say that the Phrygians "came from" the Balkans. I said "connected to". <br /><br />And I didn't say exactly when.<br /><br />However, I see a recent paper by the archaeologist C. Brian Rose which says:<br /><br />"The Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63419115504557031602015-02-19T17:22:24.880-08:002015-02-19T17:22:24.880-08:00You're wrong.
There are too many coincidences...You're wrong.<br /><br />There are too many coincidences, like the <6,000 year-old split between the Balto-Slavic-Norse R-Z282 and Indo-Iranian R-Z93.<br /><br />That's the Indo-European expansion from the steppe right there.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7746272419359016872015-02-19T17:07:50.242-08:002015-02-19T17:07:50.242-08:00To Mike Thomas
The only thing we have is some sim...To Mike Thomas <br />The only thing we have is some similarities amongst different languages and this is quite normal. But if you stick, for some unclear reasons, to an original home or a language well spread all over half of the world, then you must come with some good arguments which go with it. But when we read your guys, what we have are some tribes without nothing, only what you imagination Lazizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09290319182684473016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39304666148861454632015-02-19T17:04:15.642-08:002015-02-19T17:04:15.642-08:00The statement is "Linguists have long agreed&...The statement is "Linguists have long agreed" - which is perfectly accurate - not "time travelers have confirmed the existence of PIE".<br /><br />Looking forward to the paper, Mikecapra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79953809354745358232015-02-19T17:01:11.993-08:002015-02-19T17:01:11.993-08:00Marnie
The theory that Phrygians came from the Ba...Marnie <br />The theory that Phrygians came from the Balkans has little solid evidence apart from Herodotus playing on puns (Brygi - Phrygi) and outdated archaeology <br />There are recent perspectives whicj view the Phrygians as local developments in westenr anatolia from the Bronze Age; which certainly raises questions about linguistic prehistory given their well known connections to ancient Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70840032746801527132015-02-19T16:48:01.457-08:002015-02-19T16:48:01.457-08:00Laziz
Of course it hasn't been "found&quo...Laziz<br />Of course it hasn't been "found". But the admittedly abstracted and reconstructed proto langauge is acceoted unless youre wanting to throw the entire comaparative method out the window Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259212254098264600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33293194514786726922015-02-19T16:36:22.978-08:002015-02-19T16:36:22.978-08:00@Roy
The Phrygians of Anatolia were definitely co...@Roy<br /><br />The Phrygians of Anatolia were definitely connected to both Thrace and Upper Macedonia and were considered to speak a language of the Southern Balkans.<br /><br />Some info here, for instance:<br />http://www.ancient.eu/phrygia/<br /><br />The Phyrgian position in Anatolia/Asia Minor would have brought them into close contact with Armenia, which extended further west than its Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20143473586682545032015-02-19T15:45:44.186-08:002015-02-19T15:45:44.186-08:00@Richard Rocca,
I agree and that's why I said ...@Richard Rocca,<br />I agree and that's why I said I'm agnostic about M269(xl23) origin. There is not enough data as Marnie pointed out. What I'm trying to do is deduce which lineages covary with the Anatolian languages vs. Italo-Celtic, Greek-Armenian etc... Your maps indicate a concentration of M269(xl23) in Western/Central Anatolia--data which come from our Turkish study of Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02272252711544391571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82121656944260809512015-02-19T15:30:29.167-08:002015-02-19T15:30:29.167-08:00"Linguists have long agreed that languages fr..."Linguists have long agreed that languages from English to Greek to Hindi, known as 'Indo-European languages', are part of a language family which first emerged from a common ancestor spoken thousands of years ago."<br /><br />Right from the beginning that statement is false. Never was such common ancestor found; it is only speculation. Lazizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09290319182684473016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9876842734935908932015-02-19T14:48:20.625-08:002015-02-19T14:48:20.625-08:00... correction ...
They farmed with animal dung u...... correction ...<br /><br />They farmed with animal dung until about 50 years ago. [Now they use commercial fertilizer.]Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.com