tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post957790706281855031..comments2024-03-28T15:13:25.036-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: North European admixture in the Han Chinese (Charleston et al. 2017 preprint)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32066355701960016852017-08-11T16:44:11.997-07:002017-08-11T16:44:11.997-07:00"Shang dynasty geography fits well with the s..."Shang dynasty geography fits well with the studies findings "Northwestern provinces of China (Gansu, Shaanxi, Shanxi) but not other parts of China". Looks like there could actually be some truth to historian Beckwith's claims!"<br /><br />The Shang dynasty was centered in Henan, not northwestern China. Its immediate descendants are recorded to have moved to eastern China.Lathdrinorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08214825065599007633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3831805572816417842017-07-22T15:41:58.727-07:002017-07-22T15:41:58.727-07:00>From the Scandinavia Paper. This is interestin...>From the Scandinavia Paper. This is interesting when you consider how light eye colors are prominent in MENA minorities like select Berbers and Christians. Both of which are isolated or endogamous.<br /><br />Berbers have high SSA admix so not very isolated or endogamous. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54278772378741468632017-07-21T02:32:43.275-07:002017-07-21T02:32:43.275-07:00@Slumbery:"The Wikipedia article you linked s...@Slumbery:<i>"The Wikipedia article you linked states the results were errors and there is no particular Western affinity in 2500 y BP Linzi"</i> <br />. <br /><br />Yes, I know. <br />What the "author" of this wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Linzi) conveniently forgot to say is that there was a new analysis done in 2006 that supported the results of the wagghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582568982610797947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63026698628622346682017-07-18T14:56:56.048-07:002017-07-18T14:56:56.048-07:00Getting waaaay off base here.
Beckwith's idea...Getting waaaay off base here.<br /><br />Beckwith's idea that the Shang, and Chinese Bronze Age civilisation in general, was founded by IEs is a very fringe one, with very little evidence to support it. IE loanwords in old Chinese are present, however they are concentrated in certain peripheral cultural fields relating to Chariots, Wool, etc and the language of both early Chinese dynasties, P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47579832648921608572017-07-18T03:25:20.895-07:002017-07-18T03:25:20.895-07:00@Max_T
Northwestern provinces...sounds like steppe...@Max_T<br />Northwestern provinces...sounds like steppe-like admixture. I would guess it's Andronovo or even Scythians. <br /><br />I guess Tocharians.Lukaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08133163538438260772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46689718683678961242017-07-18T00:08:30.030-07:002017-07-18T00:08:30.030-07:00@Peter Klevius
“'kolo' is a Finnish word ...@Peter Klevius <br />“'kolo' is a Finnish word still in use and meaning 'hole'. All Uralic languages have it in slightly varying forms and its stem is proposed as *kol3. Slavic has borrowed it more recently.”<br /><br />I don’t think Slavs borrowed it from Uralic speakers recently. Slavs originated from Corded Ware in the area where first wheeled vehicles were used:<br /><br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53332892721158768462017-07-17T22:52:02.792-07:002017-07-17T22:52:02.792-07:00@wagg
The Wikipedia article you linked states the ...@wagg<br />The Wikipedia article you linked states the results were errors and there is no particular Western affinity in 2500 y BP Linzi. Indeed it would be super surprising if the population of the capital of an Eastern Chinese kingdom came out as genetically super Western.Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45998502246011762092017-07-17T19:36:32.410-07:002017-07-17T19:36:32.410-07:00"these estimates correspond to admixture even..."these estimates correspond to admixture events occurring at around 700 CE and 1300 CE, respectively, corresponding roughly to the Tang and Yuan dynasty in China."<br /><br />possibly Sogdians (Sogdian dérived from Scythian people)<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdia<br /><br />previously, Ordos culture (a scythian culture), settled in China<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21748978221982225312017-07-17T18:41:41.633-07:002017-07-17T18:41:41.633-07:00Some day we will find that they did not stop in ch...Some day we will find that they did not stop in china but made all the way to the Americas to influence the civilizations there as well. Strandloperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09223332942494057223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86128839979031362382017-07-17T18:25:39.898-07:002017-07-17T18:25:39.898-07:00@mickeydodds1
The 3 godly peoples of pre-history i...@mickeydodds1<br />The 3 godly peoples of pre-history in my opinion were the First Farmers, Indo-Europeans and the people of the Elam-Sumeria-Egypt area.<br />They were vital to humanity, or at least to West Eurasia, but then we see things now and then saying that Indo-Europeans gave East Asians many technologies, etc and then you start wondering if they really had something special, those orangeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69256036944300792502017-07-17T14:43:24.040-07:002017-07-17T14:43:24.040-07:00'kolo' is a Finnish word still in use and ...'kolo' is a Finnish word still in use and meaning 'hole'. All Uralic languages have it in slightly varying forms and its stem is proposed as *kol3. Slavic has borrowed it more recently.kleviushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01506712624330964770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31532985398675065762017-07-17T14:13:33.649-07:002017-07-17T14:13:33.649-07:00New paper (probably basis for next Eurogenes post ...New paper (probably basis for next Eurogenes post I'd guess) : http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/07/17/164400 - "Genomics of Mesolithic Scandinavia reveal colonization routes and high-latitude adaptation"Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44977428951778893452017-07-17T10:49:31.317-07:002017-07-17T10:49:31.317-07:00@ wagg
Interesting. One of my friends have an int...@ wagg<br /><br />Interesting. One of my friends have an interesting theory that shows many connections between Chinese and Q-Celtic...too many to be pure coincidence.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4787181774206320292017-07-17T10:41:54.190-07:002017-07-17T10:41:54.190-07:00Thanks Ebizur.Thanks Ebizur.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63753020602049095972017-07-17T09:20:45.066-07:002017-07-17T09:20:45.066-07:00mickeydodds1 said...
"Is there anything the s...mickeydodds1 said...<br />"Is there anything the steppe/corded ware people did not do?"<br /><br />I think there's a certain inevitability to some aspects of this. If you divide land into two groups a) suitable for crop farming and b) too marginal for crop farming resulting in a farmer population living on a) and a herder population living on b) and assume conflict will cyclically Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56537205148991397272017-07-17T09:05:07.573-07:002017-07-17T09:05:07.573-07:00Japanese (dialect) beko is probably of onomatopoet...Japanese (dialect) <i>beko</i> is probably of onomatopoetic origin, and was borrowed by the Ainu after the introduction of cattle into Hokkaido by Japanese settlers. (By the way, the Ainus' northern neighbors, the Nivkhs, borrowed the Tungusic appellation for the animal: cf. Nivkh <i>eɣa(ŋ)</i> and Manchu <i>ihan</i>).<br /><br /><i>Beko</i> or <i>beeko</i> meaning "bovine" is Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89138086982738240442017-07-17T08:00:05.025-07:002017-07-17T08:00:05.025-07:00@David
What surprises me is that the outcome of t...@David<br /><br />What surprises me is that the outcome of these is different from the supp info in Fu et al.<br /><br />K14 Loschbour; Han Mbuti Z=-4.3<br />Vestonice16 Loschbour; Han Mbuti Z=-3.9<br />K14 LaBrana1; Han Mbuti Z=-3.8<br />Vestonice16 Loschbour; Han Mbuti Z=-3.4<br /><br />Anyway, never mind. There seems to be not much difference between Han and Dai, a Yunnan minority from Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5163968325222289052017-07-17T06:53:07.079-07:002017-07-17T06:53:07.079-07:00BTW, concerning the Japanese bit, I'm not sayi...BTW, concerning the Japanese bit, I'm not saying some IE speakers reached Japan of course, just that the populations that migrated in Japan a few centuries BCE (likely from south-eastern Siberia and creating the Yayoi culture IIRC) got this loanwaord with some of its cattle likely in south Siberia from people with at least partly some IE origins (and the loanword eventually reached the ainus wagghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582568982610797947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74412701221925425582017-07-17T06:41:10.610-07:002017-07-17T06:41:10.610-07:00Notice also that in "Genetic Structure of a 2...Notice also that in <i>"Genetic Structure of a 2,500-Year-Old Human Population in China and Its Spatiotemporal Changes"</i> (http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/17/9/1396) it was found that <i>"the 2,500-year-old Linzi population showed greater genetic similarityto present-day European populations than to present-day east Asian populations. The 2,000-year-old Linzi wagghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582568982610797947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60766552818593345152017-07-17T06:38:36.808-07:002017-07-17T06:38:36.808-07:00There are tracks of a migration from the Russian s...There are tracks of a migration from the Russian steppes to the east at the end of neolithic/early Bronze age (Afanasevo, which seems related in many ways to early Yamnaya culture) and these ancient tracks are seen at least up to the Baikal Lake. <br /><br /><i>"From the Altay-Sayan steppes the Europeoid groups seem to have moved fairly far east; the neolithic population <b>west of Lake wagghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582568982610797947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55872150591727764282017-07-17T06:14:18.075-07:002017-07-17T06:14:18.075-07:00"Wonder where that BT came from ?"
It a..."Wonder where that BT came from ?"<br /><br />It almost certainly is some sort of G, H, I, or F* (<i>e.g.</i> F2-M427/M428) that simply has not been tested for the relevant SNPs.Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28852870453815710832017-07-17T04:49:31.850-07:002017-07-17T04:49:31.850-07:00Wonder where that BT came from ?Wonder where that BT came from ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83470545934875046652017-07-17T03:34:30.017-07:002017-07-17T03:34:30.017-07:00Please keep in mind that there are more than ten m...Please keep in mind that there are more than ten million Chinese-speaking Muslims (Hui people) in China, and they clearly contain a lot of exotic admixture (at least in their Y-DNA):<br /><br />Hui (Xue et al. 2006)<br />2/35 = 5.7% BT-SRY10831.1(xC-M130, DE-YAP, J-12f2, K-M9)<br />4/35 = 11.4% C-M130(xM8, M217)<br />4/35 = 11.4% C-M217(xM48)<br />4/35 = 11.4% DE-YAP(xE-M40)<br />1/35 = 2.9% Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70888177784412606642017-07-17T01:53:56.762-07:002017-07-17T01:53:56.762-07:00@MaxT
Definitely steppe admixture. With those dat...@MaxT<br /><br />Definitely steppe admixture. With those dates and a northwestern distribution the population mixing with Han could've been eastern Scythian, Tocharian or even some Turkic group with related ancestry. ALDER or f3 mixture test with just modern European references can't precisely tell which one of them.Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73796611934022544902017-07-17T01:11:42.344-07:002017-07-17T01:11:42.344-07:00Chinese use Slavic word ‘kolo’ for ‘wheel’ which i...Chinese use Slavic word ‘kolo’ for ‘wheel’ which is interesting:<br /><br />http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp047_sino-tibetan_wheel.pdf<br /><br />http://ukdataexplorer.com/european-translator/?word=wheel<br /><br />Also Chinese ‘mjit/mit’ for honey is very interesting:<br /><br />https://www.google.ch/url?bvm=bv.70138588%2Cd.bGE&cad=rja&cd=1&ei=7o-4U4jQE4vc4QTSi4HYDw&esrc=s&EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.com