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Wednesday, June 7, 2017

The pigtailed figures

Reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (PIE) vocabulary suggests that the speakers of PIE, who probably lived on the Pontic-Caspian steppe during the Eneolithic, were familiar with wool. Interestingly, ancient DNA suggests that Near Eastern-related ancestry first appeared on the Pontic-Caspian steppe during the Eneolithic, because Neolithic samples from the Pontic steppe in what is now Ukraine lack this type of admixture. Perhaps it first arrived there with women from south of the Caucasus who knew how to spin wool? Below are a couple of interesting quotes from Becker et al. 2016. Emphasis is mine:

For ancient Mesopotamia McCorriston has proposed a fundamental shift from linen-based to woollen textile production. [4] Drawing on evidence from cuneiform texts as well as faunal and botanical remains, she suggests that it was in the 3rd or perhaps late 4th millennium BCE that wool became the fibre of choice for everyday use. Recent archaeological and archaeozoological research, however, suggests a considerably earlier date, before the advent of writing. Written sources from the mid- to late 3rd millennium BCE demonstrate that sheep and goats were maintained in herds of some dozens to a few hundred and herded in large flocks up to several thousand animals. In fact, cuneiform records provide ample evidence for the usage of wool in textile manufacture, whereas linen appears only rarely. The growth of a large-scale woollen textile industry rested on women as the main source of labour.


During the Late Uruk and Jemdat Nasr periods in Mesopotamia, scenes appear on cylinder seals that have been interpreted as showing textile production carried out by so-called pigtailed figures. [93] A specific raw material cannot be deduced from these depictions, but the substantial number of scenes indicates a significant concern with cloth manufacture.

Becker et al., The Textile Revolution. Research into the Origin and Spread of Wool Production between the Near East and Central Europe, eTopoi, Special Volume (6) 2016, (ISSN 2192-2608)

See also...

A plausible model for the formation of the Yamnaya genotype

A homeland, but not the homeland


EastPole said...

I wrote about the word ‘wool’ earlier:

Interesting that Indo-Iranians preserved Slavic word for wool and not for example the word used by Neolithic farmers in Iran.

It is a speculation, but I wonder how Polish word for wool ‘welna(velna)’ can be related to Polish word for flax ‘len’.

Maybe the word for wool ‘velna’ didn’t come from PIE but was adopted by people using flax ‘len’ i.e. Neolithic farmers in Vistula-Dnieper area.

‘len’ –> ‘ve-len-a’

What I am suggesting here is that the word ‘ve-len-a’ (wool) was an adaptation of the word ‘len’ (flax) which was done by Tripolye farmers first and then the word ‘ve-len-a’ was spread by Corded Ware people who were a mix of Neolithic farmers like Tripolye and Balto-Slavic pastoralists from the steppe rich in R1a-Z645. This would explain similarity between Indo-Iranian and Slavic and provide a pleasing etymology for ‘velena/velna’ (wool).

Slumbery said...

Eastpol: how anybody know what was the word for wool in Neolithic Iran? Also "preserved Slavic"? The chance of that word being direct Slavic borroving in Iranian is not zero, but not very high.

EastPole said...

“Eastpol: how anybody know what was the word for wool in Neolithic Iran? Also "preserved Slavic"? The chance of that word being direct Slavic borroving in Iranian is not zero, but not very high”.

A word for wool used in Neolithic Iran should survive in some of the not-IE languages of the region. But the Indo-Iranian wool is related to Slavic ‘velna’.

Slavs originated when Balto-Slavic pastoralists rich in R1a-Z645 from the steppe migrated west and mixed with Tripolye and other Neolithic farmers in Vistula-Dnieper area. I believe that the language most similar to the language spoken by Corded-Ware which resulted from this mixture is Slavic: there are many similarities between Slavic and Indo-Iranian and there are many words in Tocharian, Turkic and Chinese which most likely were borrowed from Slavic (which links early R1a-Z93 to Slavic IMO).

I am not talking about later direct borrowings from Slavic but about preserving the words used by Corded Ware which in my opinion were similar to Slavic.

Kjontendor001 said...

You might find people more receptive to your ideas if you adjust your terminology to more cautious - and accurate - terms like pre-Baltic-Slavic, which is what would have existed in the world of 2500 BC.

Ric Hern said...

@ Davidski

Which considerably early date does archaeology propose ? How much earlier than writing ?

Ric Hern said...

Was this earlier than the Maykop Culture ? Is Maykop back on the table again for the possible contribution of CHG into the Steppe ?

andrew said...

@EastPole "A word for wool used in Neolithic Iran should survive in some of the not-IE languages of the region."

We have no idea what most of the non-IE languages of Neolithic Iran were, since they were not attested in writing for the most part and were replaced by IE languages in pre-history.

Unknown said...

Hittite ḫulana- "wool" is the cognate of Slavic & others.

Ric Hern said...

@ EastPole

I see what you say. (Linen) However what will the "Ve-" mean ? Sone thing like the German "Vieh"? Thus the word will mean "Livestock Linen" ?

Ric Hern said...


Wasn't one of the oldest Linen fabrics found in Switzerland dating to 8000 bC. ?

This certainly outdates Tripolye by far and the word could have been widespread and already found on the Steppe before Neolithic Farmer contribution....?

Unknown said...

Lin-/līn- "flax" is narrowly-European word having a different shape in different European languages. In Indo-European languages outside Europe it is not present.

AWood said...

I think this is a very plausible theory. mtDNA I might be one of those "Caucasus" born female lineages as it's present in cultures such as Corded Ware, ancient Egypt, and throughout the middle east in various degrees. I don't believe it is present in Europe until the presence of CHG but there may be the odd outlier.

Unknown said...

Latin līnum "flax, linen," which, along with Greek linon (and etc.) is from a non-Indo-European language. Beekes writes, "Original identity is possible, however, since the cultivation of flax in Central Europe is very old. Still, it is more probable that linon and linum derive from a Mediterranean word. The word is unknown in Indo-Iranian (but the concept is, of course)."
Wool is PIE word. Linen is not PIE word. Textile production from them is the same.

Anonymous said...

No, "welna" has nothing to do with "len".

"len" is from "PIE" li:non (as pointed out, this isn't found in II, but is found in Baltic, Slavic, Germanic, Greek, and Italic; it may be a European substrate word, or it may just have been lost elsewhere; I'm guessing it's a substrate word for a local product they discovered when they reached Europe).

"welna" is pretty unimpeachably PIE. It's from a PIE word something like *2wl1ne2, and is attested in anatolian (Hittite hulana), Armenian, Slavic, Celtic (eg Irish "olann"), Germanic (eg English "wool"), Greek, Indo-Aryan, Iranian, and in two different forms in Italic.


Regarding the idea of wool coming north: do we know it didn't come south? Conceptually, it seems to make more sense that wool cultivation might arise on the step, where there were no obvious alternatives. But of course, either is possible.

batman said...


"You might find people more receptive to your ideas if you adjust your terminology to more cautious - and accurate - terms like pre-Baltic-Slavic, which is what would have existed in the world of 2500 BC."

Perhaps - but not likely.

The highly limited group of "Baltic languages" - with a specific connection to the I-I languages - was probably moving west along the Djepr-Daugva along with the Avars and Tartars. From the Caspian-Bactrian-Hindi realms.

The formation of the slavic language(s) had another background, altogether - connected to the farming Poles and Bulgars. Starting with a mix of Gothic and Vendic ('Ostro-gothic* = Gottonic and Uralic) and Bactrian Greek.

The French and the English languages became creoles of the Roman occupation of germano-celtic France and England, standarized and normalized during migration-time and late mideval time - respectively.

The slavic language-form - as we know it - was also a direct consequence of invasions and migrations of eastern Europe - first by the Persians, then by the Greeks, Later also the Romans.

The slavic language is not connected to Attila, but it's after the Hunnic campaigns to the west and the Bysantine reconquest of Rome that the slavonic language was standarized and formalized - by the East-Rome that now reigned the entire Black Sea as well as the Meds.

Thus the Greek-Orthodox Istanbul would run the trade-routes of commerce and congregations into Eastern Europe - by the use of the new, slavonic language-norm.

Before the East-Roman takeover within the 5th century we have NO traces of A slavonic language. As we have NO traces of a French language before the end of migration-time. Thus the term "Balto-Slavonic" is nothing but a handy oversimplification, combined with thin air and "common sense".

Ric Hern said...

Well sheeps original habitat is Mountains and hills. They were not Native to the Ural Mountains or Prairie like environments. So a spread from the Caucasus or Zagros area maybe even from the Altai could be possible.

batman said...

The root of the word 'Linen' is "Lin".

Within the oldest known I-E language-group the word for Flax and Linnen is the same: "Lin".

In the same language the words "lin-a" and "lin-je" exists. The first meaning 'line' as in fishing-line, the other meaning 'line' as in border-line.

Unknown said...

@vacuouswastrel, EastPole, etc.

It was not the word "len", were two different forms, one li:n - in Lat., Germ., Irish.; second lin- in Greek., Slav., Balt., Alb..

In PIE was *hwḷna-, but not "welna".

Unknown said...

Firstoff, the idea of Slavic loanwords in Indo-iranian or any other languages or Slavic-specific genes further East is very skeptical to say the least. Whether it’s the subject of history, lingusitics, and genetics the discoveries tend to become a staple for presumptions rather than confirmation. Personally, I don’t believe in my live time that science will prove the hypothesis of the Kurgan steppe people and ideologies to be correct. But that doesn’t mean we can’t attempt to understand the possibilities and similarities among each culture, and grasp the time differences with the latest research on the topic.
So, I’ve mentioned a few things:

In sanskrit avi is sheep; there is diacritic above the ”a.” This can also be defined as “favorable, kindly disposed, AV. v, I, 9; (is). In RV. (mentioned with reference to its wool being used for the Soma strainer).” There are differently spelled words related to wool on the internet, but I don’t know how accurate they are nor when it was introduced to Sanskrit lexicon.

I did find in Punjabi wool is una (personally, I don’t know any Punjabi speakers to justify my findings). So,the Polish term you typed does have the same affix as the punjabi word for wool and actually so does the sanskrit term.

However, I do see and hear similarities with Indo-aryan speakers, but again it’s not merely Slavic terms with Indo speakers, generally all Indo-european and Uralic languages share a fair amount of likeness.

Since, chronology is an important factor when it comes to linguistics, it’s difficult to pinpoint the time of intercultural communication.
A process called sandhi had changed in slavic where proclitics that ended voiceless obstruents now end in voiced obstruents. During the transition of proto-slavic to Common Slavic may have transpired.

Few examples of this change:
Sonorants and voiceless obstruents
1). [-sk-]
-these specific blend of consonants I tend to hear quite often Urdu.

2). Another example, in Slavic, the syllable ot has now become od.

And here is the relation with sonarants and obstruents in Urdu and Hindi. As Hindi is the example of a language I can find with the differences of obstruents and sonorants:

1). fricative stops [-sk-]-this is probably the only connection I can find at the moment.
Much of these examples have to do tonal aspect of the words.

So, in other words there isn’t a definitive line between Slavic and Indo-Iranian or Indo-aryan terms, whether they are borrowed or loaned. I’ve read that Slavic recently has been centumized; while also retaining proto-slavic terms in modern speech. Although, there is no script we can’t connect or compare from one another.

There, there are some debates that tribes such as the Alans who possibly brought Indo-iranian words to proto-slavic speakers but again nothing solidified. The Ossetians are said to have perserved much Old Alanic dialect but there are differences between the North and South.

As for the genetic similarities the chance of Slavic specific marker R1b M-459 is unlikely because it hasn’t been linked to Bronze nor Iron Age Central, South, and Southwest Asia.
The R1b M-269 diverged from M343 and M420 possibly around the same time as the R1a Z-93, but there isn’t cogent scientific journal articles or publications that confirms this to be fact.

Zresztą to się nie wydarzy.


Oh my god.... this is just eye-watering, this comment section is hilarious!

Slavic language standardized by Byzantine Empire, Balto-slavic spoken by Corded Ware...

The early Anglo Saxons are obviously lazy people who hate work. Toilet and toil. Toil-et. Toil-et! Work is shitty. See! I can do linguistics too!

Atriðr said...


Sanskrit for wool is: ऊर्ण (UrNa)

Anonymous said...

Wool o=in Vedic Sanskrit is ūrṇa. Long u and retroflex n. Something made from wool is either āvika or āvya.

JR97 said...

Sanskrit for Wool/Made of Wool.

Sheep's wool : अविलोमन् (Aviloman)
Sheep's skin : आविक (Avika)
Made of sheep's skin : अव्यय (Avyaya)

There seems to be atleast 11 words for "sheep" itself (Mesa, Edaka, Avika, Urana etc)

Gioiello said...

@ Ir Pegasus
"In PIE was *hwḷna-, but not "welna".

Ir Pegasus, of course you are right. How many nonsenses from people who doesn't have a linguistic background, and even more the tentative to deduce genetic implications!
The problem for Latin is that laana (long a) wouldn't seem a Latin word as the rules of linguistics, we would have expected *uelna and later *uolna as we have in Lith vìlna, Rus vòlna etc. But if we consider the supposed root from Mallory&Adams, *wlh2neha-, Hittite could be the oldest attestation of the word, and more recent IE due to a methatesis: *wlh2neha- < *h2wlneha- or even *h2wlh2neha- and Latin laana could be an old Latin word.

Anonymous said...

David, do you know more about this that Rozenfeld has brought up at anthrogenica?

6th French Network for Asian Studies Conference. Science Po Paris, 28 June 2017
Pane:l New multidisciplinary researches and new technologies applied to the archaeology of Central Asia

Name(s) (Affiliation): Aurore Monnereau (MNHN), Johanna Lhuillier (CNRS UMR 5133), Julio Bendezu-Sarmiento (DAFA/CNRS) et Céline Bon (MNHN)
Communication's title: Palaeogenetic analysis of Bronze Age/Iron Age transition in Southern Central Asia

Language: Français
Presentation :

At the end of the Bronze Age, the proto-urban Oxus Civilisation in Southern Central Asia (Uzbeki-stan, Turkmenistan) disappeared and was replaced by Iron Age Yaz Cultures. Environmental changes and geopolitical reasons are called for to explain this cultural transition. However, evi-dences of settlements from Andronovo populations during the late Bronze Age suggest that this transition was associated with migrations from northern steppe populations. To investigate the role of migrations in the Bronze Age/Iron Age transition in Southern Central Asia, we turned to palaeogenetic studies. DNA was extracted from 17 skeletons excavated in Ulug Depe (Turkmenistan) site. The hypervariable region I of the mitochondrial genome was sequenced for 6 individuals from the Bronze Age and 4 from the Iron Age. Criteria of authentication for ancient DNA were met. Thus, we first evidenced the preservation of ancient DNA in Southern Central Asia. After assignment of individuals to human mitochondrial haplotypes, a high diversity of haplotypes at Ulug Depe was observed. All the haplogroups found in Ulug Depe belong to modern western Eurasian populations. Haplogroups shared between steppe populations and Ulug Depe were evidenced, suggesting gene flow between Southern Central Asia and the Steppe, that increased during the Iron Age Ulug Depe.

And David do you have further information on when Lazaridis 2017 comes out? And the paper on Mycenaean genomes, if different to the Lazaridis one? And the Maykop paper? And the South Asia paper(s)? And any South Central Asia papers, whether the same or distinct from the above? We've been hearing about many of these papers for a while now, but time keeps passing, and none of them has come out yet.

batman said...


Try place a rounded vocal like 'o' - as in "oy", "uy" or "uu" - besides a soft and thick 'l' and you may approach the sound of "oill" or "uyll". Both are close to the I-E root-word, which was ancestral to the expession "ull" (as in Ul-ysses) as well as "ooll" and "wool" - as known from old Scandianvian and modern English.

The uralian cognate is "vil-a" [weel-a].

Old "vendic" was pretty much fenno-ugrian, before the early middle-age language-norm of the Black Sea trading-zone ('slavic') started to encompas the vendic populations along the Vistula - too. At that time the Vistula-Vends were long known for their travel and trade within as well as outside of the Baltic Sea. Thus we can't exclude that the "W" in both "w-olle" and "w-ool" got their frikativ from a vendic toungue.

la señora bibiloni said...

IIRC, Vinca culture people spun both wool and flax - why centering on south or north of the Caucasus?

Davidski said...

IIRC, Vinca culture people spun both wool and flax - why centering on south or north of the Caucasus?

Because this blog post is an addendum to my post about the origins of the Yamnaya genotype...

Also, Vinca may have spun wool, but it's unlikely to have been Proto-Indo-European.

Ric Hern said...

@ Davidski

Please Help.

How far out is this paper with its dates ?

Ric Hern said...

According to this paper I mentioned Ovicaprids spread from East to West via Azerbaijan, and the Carpathians only received them later than the Azov area.

EastPole said...

“Sanskrit for wool is: ऊर्ण (UrNa)”

Yes, I know and I explained it earlier :

Proto-Indo-Iranian ‘vrana’ > Sk. ‘urna’:

IE/Slavic ‘l’ > PII ‘r’:


Slavic ‘velna/vlъna’ > PII ‘vrana’ > Sk. ‘urna’

“Sanskrit for Wool/Made of Wool.
Sheep's skin : आविक (Avika)”

in Polish we have two forms: ‘ovca’ and diminutive ‘oviecka’
Sk. ‘avika’ could come from Slavic diminutive ‘ovicka’

Anonymous said...

@East Pole

They didn't come from Slavic. Slavic did not exist in the Indo-Iranian period. As satem languages, they share certain sound features that emphasise the common heritage of both languages from a shared ancestor.

batman said...

East Pole,

"Slavic ‘velna/vlъna’"

Obvioulsy a cognate to the uralian word for wool; "vil-a" [weel-a].
No need for persian intermediaries.

batman said...

Ric Hern,

"How far out is this paper with its dates ?"

I can't see that there these dates are anything but standard values.

Throughout the Holocene period the main line of communication between "northern" and "southern" Europe was the Vistula-Bug-Djepr-connection - through which the mesolithic traders and the neolithic industries would connect the early cultures of the Baltic Ocean, the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Ocean.

Besides the mesolitic goats and sheep of the Carpats, the Valdai and the Caucasian mountains - the area of lower Djepr saw some of the first, neolithic cattle- and pig-farms in all Europe. Neighbouring the first potters known from western Eurasia, between Volga-Don and Bug-Dniester - some 8.000 years ago. Simultanious to the first Sperrings/Narva- and Ertebolle-potteries.

Why should the dates repported by Kotova - regarding early husbandry along this for age-old axis of culture and cultivation - be "far out"?

Ric Hern said...

@ batman

I do not know that is why I ask.
According to this paper as I understood it even cattle domestication reached the Azov area earlier than it reached Romania which implies that another route for the introduction of cattle and Ovicaprid domestication should be considered than via the Balkans.

jv said...

Interesting, thank you! What were the Cucuteni-Trypillian women spinning? They were Neolithic Farmers, correct?

Lukasz said...

Just stop your Internet linguistic. Everybody destroy here your crazy arguments about wool and sheep. And you are a "baran":) It must be pointed out also that sheep is derived from Southern Europe and Western Asia. Not from Poland... So Slavic origin of wool is even mor unlikely.

Hint for you!
Do you know that in Latin sheep is "ovis", what a similarity to Polish "owca" :) I'm waiting for your theory about Slavic impact on ancient Romans...

EastPole said...

@Lukasz M
“Just stop your Internet linguistic. Everybody destroy here your crazy arguments about wool and sheep.”

I don’t think my arguments are crazy; suggestions that similarities between Slavic and Indo-Iranian words in so many cases are just accidents are crazy.
It is just that simpletons like you cannot understand it.

Arza said...

@ Lukasz M
Everybody destroy here your crazy arguments about wool and sheep.
Where exactly?

I'm waiting for your theory about Slavic impact on ancient Romans...
No need to wait. Gioiello already showed that Latin word came from a word identical to Slavic and that one need to manipulate the data using imaginary "laryngeals" to erase this connection and render Slavic words as diverted from the "original true PIE".

And as I don't have an account on anthro nor on historycy...

If you want to be a German or a Celt, go on. But don't impose your ethnic insecurities and inferiority complexes on others, especially using PCA plots made out of results from a calculator made for modern populations.

Gioiello said...

@ Arza
"I'm waiting for your theory about Slavic impact on ancient Romans...
No need to wait. Gioiello already showed that Latin word came from a word identical to Slavic"

Not exactly. I said that from the root proposed from Ir Pegasus [*hwḷna-], we should have got Latin *uelna and later *uolna, but, as Latin word for "wool" is "laana" (long a), thus the word presupposed from Latin should have been the same word presupposed from Hittite [*wlh2neha- or even *h2wlh2neha-], saying with that that Latin is very likely an old IE languages of the Balkans/Italy, disproving all what is said about its origin from Central Europe etc etc.

Lukasz said...

@Arza - Latin word came from a word identical to Slavic
You really believe in that or you are joking?

And in every calc I'm East Slavic shifted, not even a standard Pole. So no, even if I want to be, I can't be Celt or German:)So it gives me better position in such discussions.
I'm only oponnent of "ludowa lingwistyka". And mixing modern words with older ones from few thousands years ago. It's much worse than using PCA for modern pops to model old:)

Lukasz said...

Dla owieczek...

owca- etymologia:
od prasł. *ovьca[1], od praindoeur. *h₃ewis
por. bułg. овца, chorw. ovca, czes. ovce, dłuż. wójca, głuż. wowca, mac. овца, ros. овца, scs. овьца, serb. овца, słc. ovca, słń. ovca i ukr. вівця
por. litew. avis, łac. ovis i łot. avs

Lukasz said...

Namieszam jeszcze troszkę w waszej teoryjce.

 jar, u nas nie zastąpione, o ‘wełnie owczej i koziej’, cerk. rus. bułg. serb. jarina, ‘wełna’, lit. ēras, ‘jagnię’, prus. eristian (zdrobniałe, ‘jagniątko’), łac. aries, ‘baran’, grec. erifos, ‘cap’, eiros, ‘wełna’;

Lukasz said...

wool (n.) Old English wull "wool, fine soft hair which forms the coat of some animals," from Proto-Germanic *wulno (source also of Old Norse ull, Old Frisian wolle, Middle Dutch wolle, Dutch wol, Old High German wolla, German wolle, Gothic wulla), from PIE *wele- (1) "wool" (source also of Sanskrit urna; Avestan varena; Greek lenos "wool;" Latin lana "wool," vellus "fleece;" Old Church Slavonic vluna, Russian vulna, Lithuanian vilna "wool;" Middle Irish olann, Welsh gwlan "wool").

Lukasz said...

*h₂ówis sheep Latin ovis, Russian овца (ovcá), Polish owca, Slovak ovca, Lithuanian avis, Latvian avs, Sanskrit avika, English ēowu/ewe, German ouwi/Aue, Gothic awēþi, Old Norse ǽr, Ancient Greek ois, Irish ói/, Hittite ḫawi, Luwian ḫāwi-, Welsh ewig, Tocharian --/āuw, Old Armenian հովիւ (hoviw), Umbrian uvem, Old Prussian awins, Lycian xabwa, Serbian ovca

Lycian and Tocharian reflexes necessarily point to *h₂ówis. However, this noun is usually reconstructed as *h₃éwis in order to "account for the Anatolian and Armenian h- and for pervasive o-vocalism, in spite of the Tocharian form, which then remains unexplained" (Lubotsky). Alternatively, acrostatic ablauting *h₂ówi- ~ *h₂éwi- paradigm can be reconstructed (such as the one presented here in the declension table), and then one can "assume that the attested forms have the o-vocalism of the former variant, and the h- of the latter" (Lubotsky).

From Proto-Balto-Slavic *awis +‎ *-ьca, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂ówis, *h₃éwis.
Baltic cognates include Lithuanian avìs and Latvian avs.
Noun *ovьcà f

EastPole said...


“Gioiello already showed that Latin word came from a word identical to Slavic"

Gioiello is probably right that some IE influences in Italy could come from the Balkans.

“one need to manipulate the data using imaginary "laryngeals" to erase this connection and render Slavic words as diverted from the "original true PIE"

Many people cannot understand that treating reconstructed PIE as a real language is a manipulation:

“And as I don't have an account on anthro nor on historycy..”

Where do you have accounts? Interesting times ahead, we should get together, take positions, prepare publications.
Adam Mickiewicz pisał o darze wiedzy: “Znakiem urzeczywistnienia tego daru będzie to, jeżeli kto nie tylko sam mocno jaką prawdę uczuje, ale jeszcze ją wszystkim innym braciom wleje.”

Lukasz said...

Many people cannot understand that treating reconstructed PIE as a real language is a manipulation:

Oh wow. One quote (from nothing, no title) and everything is clear:) Whole lingustic put to the trash. No PIE, only Slavic (or maybe Polish) as a mother of all European languages:)

Polecam wam blogi turbosłowiańskie. Znajdziecie tam wspólny język z autorami.