tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1040169062762688638..comments2024-03-28T03:42:11.788-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Max Planck scientists: on a mission against geographyDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger117125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87571869629837895462018-03-21T08:24:58.439-07:002018-03-21T08:24:58.439-07:00Perhaps I am being paranoid, but after the Cheddar...Perhaps I am being paranoid, but after the Cheddar man fiasco, I am suspicious. Therefore I think this may come from a desire to ascribe a non-European origin to the Proto-Indo-Europeans. Survive the Jivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06884955487416706392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61155103103002643182018-03-21T04:37:02.418-07:002018-03-21T04:37:02.418-07:00@Simon_W
I'd say there are high-consensus reg...@Simon_W<br /><br />I'd say there are high-consensus regions and lower-consensus regions depending on different criteria we choose to overlap like: past WHG coverage, EEF coverage, post-Beaker era depth of ties(genetic and cultural) across the continent, etc. <br /><br />The critical point in Western Russia's history were massive early medieval Slavic expansions into the area, imo. Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33040576398470564682018-03-21T04:23:39.602-07:002018-03-21T04:23:39.602-07:00@Chad
Thanks for running and sharing those. Stats...@Chad<br /><br />Thanks for running and sharing those. Stats match my expectations. Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14912046110480378972018-03-21T04:22:43.833-07:002018-03-21T04:22:43.833-07:00@Samuel Andrews
Agree on a subset of WHG/UHG ulti...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br />Agree on a subset of WHG/UHG ultimately being the culprit. As for the finer differences between Europeans and modern MEs, I recall you or someone else proposing once that CHG has smth to do with it(pointing out some distinctive traits seen in CHG-rich pops). Imo, it's probably a bit more complex than that and may be owed to an expansion of post-Halaf ANFrich Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28017753507829019772018-03-20T14:34:29.911-07:002018-03-20T14:34:29.911-07:00I'm sure there's something out there that ...I'm sure there's something out there that will give negative for the Kalash. They aren't anywhere near as homogenous as WHG and I can get a negative with them. It is about using the right populations. Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86164735819618644762018-03-20T14:21:49.882-07:002018-03-20T14:21:49.882-07:00Honestly, I don't believe there are different,...Honestly, I don't believe there are different, equally valid definitions of Europe. The eastern border of Europe are the Ural Mountains and the Caucasus. Hence Russia has a smaller European part and a larger Asian part. Ditto with Turkey. (The difference being that the historical nucleus of Russia was in the European part, and Siberia was colonized by ethnic Russians quite recently - while Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80182521697699081892018-03-20T13:19:06.163-07:002018-03-20T13:19:06.163-07:00It is true, an old and noted phenomenon. Kalash do...It is true, an old and noted phenomenon. Kalash don't get negative f3 mixture stats using various populations while those among their neighbours that have similar ancestral components do and that is because Kalash have an unusual amount of population-specific drift.<br /><br /> As put by some people including Hellenthal, Patterson and Reich:<br /> ''However, as the developers ofShaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38657714584895659522018-03-20T09:47:02.760-07:002018-03-20T09:47:02.760-07:00That's simply not true. I can get negative f3s...That's simply not true. I can get negative f3s with WHG, the most inbred group. You just need to ask the right questions with stats.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55699612001607292862018-03-19T22:53:08.337-07:002018-03-19T22:53:08.337-07:00Drifted and low coverage samples don't produce...Drifted and low coverage samples don't produce negative f3 mixture signals even if the sample is really mixed, we've seen this previously with Kalash etc.Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15788768635372228382018-03-19T22:43:27.355-07:002018-03-19T22:43:27.355-07:00can you get an f3 signal for Iberomaurusian into A...can you get an f3 signal for Iberomaurusian into Africans?capra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-85999872064034196522018-03-19T21:51:59.377-07:002018-03-19T21:51:59.377-07:00There doesn't seem to be as much SSA in Iberom...There doesn't seem to be as much SSA in Iberomaurusians as the paper says. The qpAdm fits are pretty horrible using a West and East African source. These are also pretty bad if you want any SSA in Iberomaurusians... I'm gonna have to look at this harder, but the SSA in these samples is disappearing and it is asking for Iberomaurusian admixture in Mende and Dinka. Only Dinka goes into Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26541860719667115142018-03-19T20:23:31.057-07:002018-03-19T20:23:31.057-07:00A little of topic maybe. Years ago I read a study ...A little of topic maybe. Years ago I read a study about the skeletal differences between Homo Heidelbergensis en Homo Rhodensiensis. <br /><br />Apparently they found that Homo Heidelbergensis had a thinner skull wall than Homo Rhodensiensis. However Homo Rhodensiensis had thinner bones in the rest of the body than Homo Heidelbergensis. <br /><br />I wonder if there is an update about this ? <brRic Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66769933867159076482018-03-19T18:59:01.959-07:002018-03-19T18:59:01.959-07:00@Guy Tipton
That would be a very cryptic message ...@Guy Tipton<br /><br />That would be a very cryptic message indeed.<br /><br />But no, in the map key they have CHG EHG and Caucasus + steppe, as in CHG is from the Caucasus, and the EHG sample from Karelia is from the steppe.<br /><br />So they probably think that all of European Russia is the steppe.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3080855427976466942018-03-19T18:43:07.274-07:002018-03-19T18:43:07.274-07:00Hi David,
When I first looked at the map caption ...Hi David,<br /><br />When I first looked at the map caption I thought like you, then I realized that what they meant was these EHG locations plus the steppes. I.e. +steppes.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />GuyGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15789570230699865921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69177560688181889682018-03-19T18:10:26.576-07:002018-03-19T18:10:26.576-07:00@Anthro,
"Now, if the Caucasoid morphotype de...@Anthro,<br />"Now, if the Caucasoid morphotype depends on a lot fewer alleles, then it's another story."<br /><br />In my experience, two different white people can have completely different facial structure. There's lots of variation. Facial structure isn't the same kind of racially defining trait as skin color. I think that's important to keep in mind. Maybe, all Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18340072106665736942018-03-19T15:12:32.015-07:002018-03-19T15:12:32.015-07:00@Ryu
Oh, in terms of actual ghosts(as opposed to ...@Ryu<br /><br />Oh, in terms of actual ghosts(as opposed to total number of splits in the chain leading up to Crown Eurasians), I'm suggesting 3: Basal, the red clade in my first posted diagram here(para-Eurasian) and another ghost to explain similarity of Tafouralt with S Africans. Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19564127947403883062018-03-19T15:00:12.222-07:002018-03-19T15:00:12.222-07:00@Rob
Are you talking in regards to "Basal-Ri...@Rob<br /><br />Are you talking in regards to "Basal-Rich 1" and "another basal rich pop"?<br />A single basal source for those is implied, but potentially two SUB-clades of that basal clade(OR, just different clades of Western HG admixture in the basal rich populations). <br /><br />Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80224765641201457342018-03-19T14:50:52.315-07:002018-03-19T14:50:52.315-07:00@ Anthro
Looking at your doodles- where are you pi...@ Anthro<br />Looking at your doodles- where are you picking up 2 sources of basal ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46549121013620049662018-03-19T14:50:10.230-07:002018-03-19T14:50:10.230-07:00@Bronze
I don't deny that Caucasoid features ...@Bronze<br /><br />I don't deny that Caucasoid features developed in Eurasia, but a proper package of proto-Caucasoid features first reached prominence in the k14 clade, not in Basal Eurasians. David even made a post here titled "Kostenki: Morphologically Caucasoid" a while back.<br />Basal-rich Caucasoid affinity owes itself to an ancient admixture event of basal with K14 subcladesAnthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49812949113532817112018-03-19T14:39:50.293-07:002018-03-19T14:39:50.293-07:00^^ That's for Reich though, if we include the ...^^ That's for Reich though, if we include the Max Planck people then we get another one specific to East Asia, the "highland East Asian" population best represented in Sherpa. Other than these I dunno if there's any?Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19505654047707837682018-03-19T14:36:40.123-07:002018-03-19T14:36:40.123-07:00@ Anthro
Not sure I understand, which are the 4?
...@ Anthro<br /><br />Not sure I understand, which are the 4?<br /><br />Mota is not really a "ghost", since it has already been found and the quantification of its descendant contributions in modern Africans is done (Hadza and Ari most similar, well distributed in East Africa, all others less similar). Sorta like CHG (Kotias and Satsurblia) and ANE (Mal'ta and Afontova-Gora).<br /><Ryukendo Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11588546655427153692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15299113492414116442018-03-19T14:14:57.321-07:002018-03-19T14:14:57.321-07:00@Ryukendo
Well, it's true. Including basal, I...@Ryukendo<br /><br />Well, it's true. Including basal, I have 5 ghosts there(must be at least two in "other african clades" to account for JuHoan and Yoruba differences).<br /><br />Your model will have 4 ghosts, though, if I understand it correctly(Basal, Mota, Brown edge, Black edge):<br />https://justpaste.it/1ihty<br /><br />4 is more parsimonious than 5, I agree, but Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69062998100457959282018-03-19T14:08:24.722-07:002018-03-19T14:08:24.722-07:00I had a look at Trivedi et al, High Resolution Phy...I had a look at Trivedi et al, High Resolution Phylogeographic Map of Y-Chromosomes Reveal the Genetic Signatures of Pleistocene Origin of Indian Populations <br /><br />(http://www.krepublishers.com/06-Special%20Volume-Journal/T-Anth-00-Special%20Volumes/T-Anth-SI-03-Anth-Today-Web/Anth-SI-03-31-Trivedi-R/Anth-SI-03-31-Trivedi-R-Tt.pdf)<br /><br />According to that paper, "haplogroup Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49725298023191842018-03-19T13:55:10.286-07:002018-03-19T13:55:10.286-07:00@Rob
In the southwestern area, the number of sites...@Rob<br />In the southwestern area, the number of sites seem to decrease c. 14 ky BP. The next transition period is named LUM/AZ-LB (Later Upper Magdalenian+Azilian+Laborian). The transition period seems to end during the Younger Dryas. The Younger Dryas seems to be mostly AZ-LB, but the number of sites seems to be smaller and there was less human activity. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90157049897110596792018-03-19T13:40:55.370-07:002018-03-19T13:40:55.370-07:00@open genomes
Nobody considers Hadza as eurasians...@open genomes<br /><br />Nobody considers Hadza as eurasians, they are highly inbred but still carry some eurasian admixture mainly from cushitics. D-stats with them would still not show any affinity with natufians. <br /><br />North africa is a possibility, but it still doesnt matter because based on phylogeny and autosomal dna these north africans would still be closer to eurasians rather than Bronzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04401880046015151556noreply@blogger.com