tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1080705733100378151..comments2024-03-28T08:39:32.244-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Dear Iosif #3Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71449249491558603422023-03-27T00:25:59.368-07:002023-03-27T00:25:59.368-07:00@Freakk
R1a and R1b aren't from eastern chg/i...@Freakk<br /><br />R1a and R1b aren't from eastern chg/iran_hg men.<br /><br />Cope harder moron.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66555467768195374852023-03-26T23:04:43.079-07:002023-03-26T23:04:43.079-07:00No bride swap,instead,euro ehg women were kidnappe...No bride swap,instead,euro ehg women were kidnapped by eastern chg/iran_hg men,exact reverse of what Davidski was insinuating initially<br /><br />If it was bride swap,we would have found samples with chg on chrX like we saw khvalynsk and other groups with ehg on chrX<br /><br />You euros cope so hard when the situations are reversed,and tables are turned over.Freakkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03218712455644533318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25095985139366471972022-09-09T03:25:03.426-07:002022-09-09T03:25:03.426-07:00@vAsiSTha
'With respect to the BGR_C outlier...@vAsiSTha <br /><br />'With respect to the BGR_C outlier, you are showing me models with a distance of 5-6%, and it's hard for me to take them seriously. Even if what you are saying is correct, the inflow into Anatolia from the east is just much larger (40-50%) and is much more consistent with lasting language change than a few outliers. If that is the standard we are going by, that a H₂ŕ̥ḱtoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720937885993865478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37680533103944888762022-09-09T03:24:42.017-07:002022-09-09T03:24:42.017-07:00@vAsiSTha
I appreciate the respectful and well-re...@vAsiSTha<br /><br />I appreciate the respectful and well-reasoned reply!<br /><br />'These are just G25 models. Formal stats reveal more nuances. There is indeed truth in what Lazaridis is saying and I see it when modeling Afanasievo in qpAdm. There is an inexplicable failure in the Generated Dstats related to PPN.' <br /><br />You're right, of course, but then, on the note of formalH₂ŕ̥ḱtoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720937885993865478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13932803774155998362022-09-04T15:16:37.043-07:002022-09-04T15:16:37.043-07:00@H₂ŕ̥ḱtos
Not to mention that the BGR_C_outlier ...@H₂ŕ̥ḱtos <br /><br />Not to mention that the BGR_C_outlier has only 37k SNPS, and is contamination is marked 'very high' in the latest anno file. <br /><br />The steppe signal you are seeing is likely from moderns.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21504999419249947782022-09-04T13:35:18.363-07:002022-09-04T13:35:18.363-07:00@H₂ŕ̥ḱtos
"The thing is, your models of step...@H₂ŕ̥ḱtos<br /><br />"The thing is, your models of steppe_en and Yamnaya there show exactly the opposite of what Lazaridis et al. are saying in this paper. Your models show:"<br /><br />These are just G25 models. Formal stats reveal more nuances. There is indeed truth in what Lazaridis is saying and I see it when modeling Afanasievo in qpAdm. There is an inexplicable failure in the vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22021383673013035852022-09-04T13:10:37.000-07:002022-09-04T13:10:37.000-07:00@kouros
I have rebutted these arguments of kumsay...@kouros<br /><br />I have rebutted these arguments of kumsay_eba ancestry in Sarazm already in the first few comments of my <a href="https://a-genetics.blogspot.com/2022/08/rakhigarhi.html" rel="nofollow">post here</a><br /><br />To sum it simply:<br />1. Sarazm samples are 500yrs older than Kumsay.<br />2. Sarazm qpAdm requires 0% EHG or Khvalynsk ancestry. Therefore there is no chance of it vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49776817844945338402022-09-04T05:16:42.691-07:002022-09-04T05:16:42.691-07:00Actually, what the paper says about timing of the ...Actually, what the paper says about timing of the Anatolian/IE split is this:<br /><br />"<i>The Anatolian split is placed by that study at ~3700 BCE (4314 to 3450 BCE, 95% highest posterior density interval), a period during which the Caucasus hunter-gatherer ancestry first appears as far west as the Chalcolithic individuals from Northwest Anatolia (at Ilıpınar) sampled in our study</i>&epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70513413289152812652022-09-04T03:53:30.989-07:002022-09-04T03:53:30.989-07:00.. neoAnatolians in the sense speakers of Hattic ..... neoAnatolians in the sense speakers of Hattic related languages, ultimately coming from northeast Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72723975756337086522022-09-04T03:48:21.113-07:002022-09-04T03:48:21.113-07:00@vAsiSTha
Cont.:
These aren't the only ones...@vAsiSTha <br /><br />Cont.:<br /><br />These aren't the only ones, though admittedly, the signal from this putative proto-Anatolian-speaking Balkan population decreases from here. If anyone's interested, they can change the model around a bit, but I've noticed that actually, you can use straight Yamnaya instead of this guy, and you get numbers which are significantly more than a H₂ŕ̥ḱtoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720937885993865478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18235312048100648802022-09-04T03:47:39.433-07:002022-09-04T03:47:39.433-07:00@vAsiSTha
Cont.:
Consider this guy - https://amt...@vAsiSTha<br /><br />Cont.:<br /><br />Consider this guy - https://amtdb.org/sample/I2181 - from about 4500 BCE, in Bulgaria, with about 30% Yamnaya-like ancestry and the rest being local European farmer ancestry:<br /><br />Target: BGR_C_outlier:I2181<br />Distance: 5.1636% / 0.05163649<br />55.2 UKR_Globular_Amphora<br />31.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara<br />13.2 TUR_Marmara_Barcin_N<br />0.0 H₂ŕ̥ḱtoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720937885993865478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14566993381307034652022-09-04T03:46:25.515-07:002022-09-04T03:46:25.515-07:00@vAsiSTha
The thing is, your models of steppe_en ...@vAsiSTha<br /><br />The thing is, your models of steppe_en and Yamnaya there show exactly the opposite of what Lazaridis et al. are saying in this paper. Your models show:<br /><br />1. That steppe_en is EHG + something CHG-related, without Anatolian- or Levantine-related admixture,<br /><br />and<br /><br />2. That Yamnaya is steppe_en + more European HG admixture + local European farmer H₂ŕ̥ḱtoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720937885993865478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13508949246099842842022-09-04T03:40:39.335-07:002022-09-04T03:40:39.335-07:00@ Epoch
Yeah I'd say I5737 was an Luwian-Hit...@ Epoch <br /><br />Yeah I'd say I5737 was an Luwian-Hittite<br /><br />I wouldn't take any heed of uninformative distal models esp. when done by hacks <br /><br />Simple but accurate 2-way model based on people who were actually around western Anatolia at relevant time <br /><br /><br /><br />Target Distance Beli_Breyag_EBA Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC<br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12368490195000341992022-09-04T02:59:47.987-07:002022-09-04T02:59:47.987-07:00@ Bell beaker Blooger
Sure anything is possible, ...@ Bell beaker Blooger<br /><br />Sure anything is possible, but I dont believe there was a coherent, primordialistic 'Impresso" people . I've described the Impresso phenomenon before here - it is an artistic reportoire within a common Neolithic pool of ideas. In the Ionian and Adriatic regions, it became emblemic before spreading to southern France where it was taken up by Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70656083059551476932022-09-04T01:02:19.260-07:002022-09-04T01:02:19.260-07:00@Vasishta
This is painful to read because there a...@Vasishta<br /><br /><i>This is painful to read because there are clearly two separate waves of CHG-like ancestry <b>in the steppe</b>, one older about 5500bce, and the other much later. This is mentioned in the Southern arc paper two times. Ctrl + F "two streams of migration".</i><br /><br />Kloekhorst talks about Anatolian languages which, according to the paper you mention, was epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46058193632480302012022-09-04T00:50:05.133-07:002022-09-04T00:50:05.133-07:00 Sarzm accumulate Steppe Siberien and Eneolithic S... Sarzm accumulate Steppe Siberien and Eneolithic Steppe from Kumsay , as well IVCp, it is barely present in contemporary samples in Turkmenistan which lay west. There is no possibility these population are ancestral. David is right here, it is absurd. Sarazm even has IVCp , a population which forms only apres 6000 BP, that eliminate any possibility . <br /><br />sample: Sarazm En:Average<br />Kouroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00186094305449823450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52016355328884366352022-09-03T23:31:25.114-07:002022-09-03T23:31:25.114-07:00@Rob,
But specific to Impresso folks, they are em...@Rob,<br /><br />But specific to Impresso folks, they are emerging a much bigger phenomenon than they once were. More of a coherent culture than just a name for miscellaneous people with dark hair that poke pottery with sticks or shells. They seem to be a "people" who very quickly colonize large distances, probably heterogenous of sorts, but they went everywhere. Perhaps the bellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27551147860670843252022-09-03T23:10:35.071-07:002022-09-03T23:10:35.071-07:00The east shift in Anatolia comes from pastoralists...The east shift in Anatolia comes from pastoralists in northern Anatolia who have less AHG and more CHG as a base. Then follows another wave from Arslantepe <br />These have nothing to do with the CHG fishers who settled the Volga steppe <br /><br />Western Anatolia then experiences a ~30% arrival of Balkan Bronze Age people who are steppe admixed. There is even a second LBA-IA wave of Phrygians Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5552084164445652122022-09-03T23:08:32.973-07:002022-09-03T23:08:32.973-07:00@Rob,
Firstly, I don't believe that anyone co...@Rob,<br /><br />Firstly, I don't believe that anyone could have been pure enough CHG to supply the volumn needed to make these herders. At least not in the form of any kind of capable or fighting people. They really would have to have parachuted from outer space. So I believe that a lot of the CHG we see appear quite suddenly is native.<br /><br />Geologically the Taman Peninsula (south ofbellbeakerbloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848982163843593127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20570720985598001742022-09-03T21:01:09.795-07:002022-09-03T21:01:09.795-07:00% of “CHG” doesn’t matter either. It’s just statis...% of “CHG” doesn’t matter either. It’s just statistical homeopathy. <br /><br />Farmers from northern and western Europe have even more “west asian” ancestry, but they like steppe eneolithic represent native developments <br />But nobody has claimed they were inert or closed off to admixtures and influences. <br />But this was selective & they kept their own identity passed on dynastically <Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16819312970527311082022-09-03T20:49:17.142-07:002022-09-03T20:49:17.142-07:00Don't get worked up now. These are the same to...Don't get worked up now. These are the same tools you yourself used in Iosif #1.<br />But 4% yamnaya in 2 anatolian samples proves Balkan anatolian hypothesis? lmao. vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87336633093138642902022-09-03T20:38:59.830-07:002022-09-03T20:38:59.830-07:00You don't know shit.
Out of Armenia and Out o...You don't know shit.<br /><br />Out of Armenia and Out of Sarazm are equally hilarious.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73071484302300926222022-09-03T19:52:22.900-07:002022-09-03T19:52:22.900-07:00"The rest of its ancestry is still a mystery,..."The rest of its ancestry is still a mystery, and there's no evidence that this minor ancestry had anything to do with any Proto-Indo-Europeans."<br /><br />It's not really too much of a mystery. Broad trends are known, only the last mile is required.<br /><br /><b>Target: RUS_Progress_En<br />Distance: 3.2616% / 0.03261607<br />59.6 RUS_Khvalynsk_En<br />23.0 TJK_Sarazm_En<br /vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23969821427837484572022-09-03T19:18:38.208-07:002022-09-03T19:18:38.208-07:00Huh? I said 40-50% ancestry in Anatolia from the e...Huh? I said 40-50% ancestry in Anatolia from the east.vAsiSThahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812352482004389085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24013167134423937612022-09-03T18:28:01.876-07:002022-09-03T18:28:01.876-07:00Yamnaya doesn't have 40-50% ancestry from the ...Yamnaya doesn't have 40-50% ancestry from the east. It's obviously in large part of local hunter-gatherer origin.<br /><br />The rest of its ancestry is still a mystery, and there's no evidence that this minor ancestry had anything to do with any Proto-Indo-Europeans.<br /><br />Details matter.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com