tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1389044880909312189..comments2024-03-28T23:21:04.175-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: What's the difference between ancient Romans and present-day Italians?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger300125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14423286006409841132020-08-11T17:23:41.907-07:002020-08-11T17:23:41.907-07:00That claim about Berbers being 30% North Africa is...That claim about Berbers being 30% North Africa is a big fat lie. Outdated 23andme showed higher European admixture but recent ones don't show higher than 10 %. And that's probably due to IberianMUberian refugees who fled Reconquista and Inquisition. Studies on ancient DNA of IberoMauruscian samples do not show ant European. It shows more subsaharan admixture which died out by antiquity.AdamChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495246310694553939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87819703968577638282019-11-11T03:27:41.851-08:002019-11-11T03:27:41.851-08:00Rob: "I wouldnt stray too far west into Britt...Rob: "<i>I wouldnt stray too far west into Brittany for Remedello folk, that's I2a1b territory.</i>"<br />Yeah, those Jadeite axes were most likely not exchanged directly for Brittany's salt (the likely source of their wealth), but rather traded down the line by transhumating pastoralists. Still, the Western Alps and beyond (traditional La Hoguette pastoralists territory, who FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23824572172682949382019-11-11T00:26:23.230-08:002019-11-11T00:26:23.230-08:00@ Rob @ Frank
Interesting. Thanks.@ Rob @ Frank<br /><br />Interesting. Thanks.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72104738681381192272019-11-11T00:24:51.638-08:002019-11-11T00:24:51.638-08:00@ Frank
''However, let's not forget t...<br /><br />@ Frank<br /><br />''However, let's not forget that the Alps were only neolithicised during the early 4th mBC, apparently under the influence of Michelsberg and related cultures (e.g. Altheim). They could have served as WHG refugium (and the same may actually apply to parts of the Appenine).''<br /><br />That nicely dovetails with what I suggested- Munzingen, Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12064050529505710122019-11-11T00:02:09.324-08:002019-11-11T00:02:09.324-08:00Ötzi's axe was made from Mitterberg Copper (so...Ötzi's axe was made from Mitterberg Copper (some 40 km S. of Salzburg), a main mine of the Mondsee Culture (Lengyel-derived). Otherwise, he posessed a Remedello dagger. These two artefacts are the main indicators for linking him to an archeological culture. <br /><br />There are actually traces of experimental copper mining in Tirol already around 5.000 BC, which are credited to Vinca FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60883074137294231532019-11-10T23:41:18.479-08:002019-11-10T23:41:18.479-08:00@ Ric
Not sure exactly who, but the important bro...@ Ric<br /><br />Not sure exactly who, but the important broad pattern is that metallurgy really takes off in central Europe from after 4000 BC, after the Balkan centres collapsed, meaning the monopoly they had held was broken. So it must have generally diffused from Epiengyel groups to west, as you suggest; and generally there was increasing introgression of WHG/ I2a during this porcess.<br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23870109314267233262019-11-10T22:50:33.512-08:002019-11-10T22:50:33.512-08:00@Andre,
"Sam, the authors THEMSELVES linked i...@Andre,<br />"Sam, the authors THEMSELVES linked it explicitly to continuing Germanic or "Central European" input."<br /><br />And the authors are wrong.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17085863511457630392019-11-10T22:48:58.793-08:002019-11-10T22:48:58.793-08:00@ Andrzejewski
He was probably a herder so maybe...@ Andrzejewski <br /><br />He was probably a herder so maybe they stole his sheep or goats. They did not take his Knife or Axe...so they were not there for his metal.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23425250722156058922019-11-10T22:47:11.444-08:002019-11-10T22:47:11.444-08:00@Andre
Vinca was long gone by the time Oetzi live...@Andre<br /><br />Vinca was long gone by the time Oetzi lived, and they never spread to his area in any case.Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53635644421906801932019-11-10T22:26:00.766-08:002019-11-10T22:26:00.766-08:00There must have been a continent wide phenomenon w...There must have been a continent wide phenomenon whereby a pestilence of some other factor was driving farming communities into extinction or at least into population bottlenecks. WHG tribes soon filled in the void and took over Anatolian EEF villages. I surmise that the Globular Amphora Culture emerged when the TRB, itself an amalgam of Southern LBK with Northern Erteboelle was completely Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55406191234634462372019-11-10T22:19:08.543-08:002019-11-10T22:19:08.543-08:00@Rob @Ric Hern
"Which group was responsible ...@Rob @Ric Hern<br /><br />"Which group was responsible for the introduction of Copper into Lower Austria ? Ötzi was G2a..and probably linked to Lengyel as a descendant. So if Austria was full of Ötzi related people from where did the I2a come, Poland or Hungary ?"<br /><br />Are you implying that Oetzi was killed by a group representing a resurgent of WHG ancestry. Was her killed Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11092408539330695202019-11-10T22:16:51.803-08:002019-11-10T22:16:51.803-08:00@Samuel Andrews "@Romulus,
"This indicat...@Samuel Andrews "@Romulus,<br />"This indicates that the resurgence in European like ancestry in Italy was not driven by a resurgence in Italian Iron Age like admixture but in fact Germanic input."<br /><br />I think we'll when the data is analysed in G25 PCA this isn't the case."<br /><br />Sam, the authors THEMSELVES linked it explicitly to continuing Germanic or &Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9786016478722572542019-11-10T22:08:47.889-08:002019-11-10T22:08:47.889-08:00@Romulus,
"This indicates that the resurgence...@Romulus,<br />"This indicates that the resurgence in European like ancestry in Italy was not driven by a resurgence in Italian Iron Age like admixture but in fact Germanic input."<br /><br />I think we'll when the data is analysed in G25 PCA this isn't the case. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12215278854114212032019-11-10T22:02:14.647-08:002019-11-10T22:02:14.647-08:00@ Rob
Or did I2a come from the Western Alps ?@ Rob<br /><br />Or did I2a come from the Western Alps ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63322541812861035952019-11-10T22:00:10.780-08:002019-11-10T22:00:10.780-08:00@ Rob
Which group was responsible for the introdu...@ Rob<br /><br />Which group was responsible for the introduction of Copper into Lower Austria ? Ötzi was G2a..and probably linked to Lengyel as a descendant. So if Austria was full of Ötzi related people from where did the I2a come, Poland or Hungary ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50157804739800546612019-11-10T21:45:25.354-08:002019-11-10T21:45:25.354-08:00Furthermore; this is when Oetzi was killed by enem...Furthermore; this is when Oetzi was killed by enemy groups Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25286653736973566032019-11-10T21:36:38.261-08:002019-11-10T21:36:38.261-08:00In fact; I2a1a starts appearing in Iberia at same ...In fact; I2a1a starts appearing in Iberia at same time . Same phenomenon= pre-Beaker Copper Age Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77594678990596965982019-11-10T21:26:36.963-08:002019-11-10T21:26:36.963-08:00@ Romulus
Sorry but that’s unlikely
1. BB did n...@ Romulus <br />Sorry but that’s unlikely <br /><br />1. BB did not originate in Tagus estuary <br />2. The earliest I2a1a is in Central - Northern Europe <br /> (Bichon; Zvejjieki; Pitted ware ) <br />3. The eneolithic ancestry in Italy is already present in early Remedello (3500 BC); and relates to alpine metallurgical province expanding over northern Italy Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78382639715650051052019-11-10T21:19:09.139-08:002019-11-10T21:19:09.139-08:00The resurgence in WHG more likely came along with ...The resurgence in WHG more likely came along with the Iberian Neolithic ancestry where WHG was higher, along with I2a1a1 M26Romulus the I2a L233+ Proto Balto-Slav, layer of Corded Ware Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10022650074050864850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22155217882594431342019-11-10T20:59:44.021-08:002019-11-10T20:59:44.021-08:00The resurgence in WHG in eneolithic surely from t...The resurgence in WHG in eneolithic surely from the north; associated with the Alpine metallurgical province <br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69436105282865180672019-11-10T20:28:29.607-08:002019-11-10T20:28:29.607-08:00What drives the resurgence of WHG ancestry during ...What drives the resurgence of WHG ancestry during the Copper Age (=Eneolithic?) and what drives the IA (Iron Age) Iran-like population? By Iran-like, do they actually mean "CHG"? Does that increase in CHG population has anything to do with Steppe ancestry?Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47091130232405789752019-11-10T20:21:48.443-08:002019-11-10T20:21:48.443-08:00R132 looks part Carthaginian, he has Phoenician mt...R132 looks part Carthaginian, he has Phoenician mtDNA and is 50% African(Algerian like). G-Z3428 is the Y haplogroup. Sample came from a grave mostly composed of infants with malnutrition. My guess here is Carthaginian slave woman or prostitute's child with a Roman father. Phoenician has to come from the maternal side because of the mtDNA. G-Z3428 apparently found in Sardinia and Iberia todayRomulus the I2a L233+ Proto Balto-Slav, layer of Corded Ware Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10022650074050864850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74839753341987152302019-11-10T19:50:19.383-08:002019-11-10T19:50:19.383-08:00The models in this paper are really interesting. T...The models in this paper are really interesting. The best fit they had for the Copper Age Italians was as a mixture of Neolithic Italians and Neolithic Iberians.<br /><br />That seems to be a reflection of the early Beaker material expansion out of the Tagus Esutary, and that culture's connection to Remedello. <br /><br />The Iron age Italians seem to prefer Yamnaya Samara over Beakers as a 2Romulus the I2a L233+ Proto Balto-Slav, layer of Corded Ware Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10022650074050864850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76603397421195170412019-11-10T17:50:25.996-08:002019-11-10T17:50:25.996-08:00Just wondering why a few people here suggested a &...Just wondering why a few people here suggested a "west Mediterranean" source for the Italics rather than Central Euro Bell Beaker + local Neo/CHL Italian population? Is there something about their admixture that suggests they arrived from Iberia in their genome? Certainly the R1b-U152-L2 would be at odds with an Iberian or "west Mediterranean" source for Bell Beaker.AWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14966600445259901063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43073968603160344002019-11-10T17:25:18.794-08:002019-11-10T17:25:18.794-08:00@ genh
What role for Polada, Terramere , Appenine...@ genh <br />What role for Polada, Terramere , Appenine culture ?<br />Cetina expansion into east Italy <br />Ect Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com