tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1555107743504335161..comments2024-03-19T06:26:06.056-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: First real foray into Migration Period Europe: the Gepid, Roman, Ostrogoth and othersDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger222125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25215008716278640382018-04-14T08:44:30.486-07:002018-04-14T08:44:30.486-07:00Hmm tried to post a long list, but only a little b...Hmm tried to post a long list, but only a little bit of the comment showed up? Anyway long story short many users including myself, Alex Williamson, and Wayne K at anthrogenica have found 5 of the Lombards of Northern E. ancestry and 5 males from the Bavarian paper of Northern E. ancestry to be positive for the R1b-U106 SNP and some sub groups under that. Main difference is the Longobards were Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16645377947174193651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10692540911012257782018-03-21T21:33:31.079-07:002018-03-21T21:33:31.079-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16645377947174193651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30977771746501279592018-03-21T08:32:27.585-07:002018-03-21T08:32:27.585-07:00Vadim Verenich said...
I would assign his [KER_1] ...<i>Vadim Verenich said...<br />I would assign his [KER_1] Y-haplogroup into Y J-L27 J-L26 J2a1- category<br /><br />which is consistent with his F1-statistics:<br /><br />Ker1.full-hg19 Ker1.full-hg19 1 0.6462 -3.882 French S_French-2<br />Ker1.full-hg19 Ker1.full-hg19 2 0.6456 -4.069 Armenian S_Armenian-1<br />Ker1.full-hg19 Ker1.full-hg19 3 0.6443 -4.27 Greek S_Greek-2<br />Ker1.full-hg19 Ker1.Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46073033992466482182018-03-21T03:51:46.688-07:002018-03-21T03:51:46.688-07:00@Alogo
Thanks, the Spanish has higher Briton-rela...@Alogo<br /><br />Thanks, the Spanish has higher Briton-related ancestry than Sp_Basques do, which is not unexpected (~22% vs 33%)André de Vasconceloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661586310311442995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36588221332684269692018-03-20T23:41:15.593-07:002018-03-20T23:41:15.593-07:00@Andre,
That's most likely true, probably cou...@Andre,<br /><br />That's most likely true, probably could get even better results with some other samples but just out of convenience. Re-running the Extremadura one along with the Basques as well since I finally started using David's most recent spreadsheets (one more Iberia_BA sample, with more steppe). Added some runs with Iberomaurusians too:<br /><br />https://pastebin.com/f6SrR0D2Alogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311735856824330486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23997140973237291962018-03-20T15:39:40.368-07:002018-03-20T15:39:40.368-07:00OK, that's a valid point indeed. Still, to me ...OK, that's a valid point indeed. Still, to me the lumped averages also have some importance, because they're the best proxy available (though not perfect) for the post-admix Beaker population of a given region.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48743297084126582622018-03-20T15:26:49.866-07:002018-03-20T15:26:49.866-07:00@Simon_W
I don't find that very useful, becau...@Simon_W<br /><br /><i>I don't find that very useful, because steppe admixed Beakers and those without steppe were not distinct populations who didn't mix.</i><br /><br />Obviously, they were distinct populations until they started mixing, that's why some of them lack steppe admixture.<br /><br />So the "no steppe" averages are very important, because they're informativeDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49189843394230245542018-03-20T14:40:45.791-07:002018-03-20T14:40:45.791-07:00Right, here's what I found: Beaker_Iberia aver...Right, here's what I found: Beaker_Iberia average only includes steppe admixed Iberian beakers. I don't find that very useful, because steppe admixed Beakers and those without steppe were not distinct populations who didn't mix. But at least now I know it and can calculate my own averages.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31577924358897189962018-03-20T14:28:29.200-07:002018-03-20T14:28:29.200-07:00@ Davidski
"You can see the values that I av...@ Davidski<br /><br />"You can see the values that I averaged by looking at the non-averaged datasheets."<br /><br />Seriously, no shit? Lol. Alright, I'm going to calculate the average of the total myself and then compare it with your cryptic average. I can do that in no time.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60746085367552298692018-03-20T00:55:07.841-07:002018-03-20T00:55:07.841-07:00England_Roman might not be an ideal proxy because ...England_Roman might not be an ideal proxy because he could have carried more steppe related ancestry than the hallstatt groups who made it into Iberia. Lusitanian appears to be have some Italic-ish features, so unless it's a proto-celtic language dating from the Beaker period, it shouldn't be surprising if it came from somewhere close to a contact area between Italic and Celtic - maybe André de Vasconceloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661586310311442995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17231846796581526492018-03-19T14:55:29.758-07:002018-03-19T14:55:29.758-07:00Oops, correction on the first:
[1] "distance...Oops, correction on the first:<br /><br />[1] "distance%=3.093"<br /><br /> Spanish_Extremadura<br /><br />Iberia_BA,73.4<br />Armenia_EBA,17<br />Mozabite,9.6Alogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311735856824330486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59426127015451993972018-03-19T13:37:00.396-07:002018-03-19T13:37:00.396-07:00@Anthro,
Yeah, shame, your former scenario was mo...@Anthro,<br /><br />Yeah, shame, your former scenario was more interesting but who knows - reality was likely a bit more complex than the temporally distant samples make it look like. :-)<br /><br />@Matt,<br /><br />Thanks for taking yet another close look.<br /><br />Ideally, we of course want (as Chad mentioned too) to have the relevant, later general northern Balkan-Pannonian-Pontic area moreAlogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12311735856824330486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90601901028533890872018-03-19T11:25:18.565-07:002018-03-19T11:25:18.565-07:00Well of course they're averages of the non-ave...Well of course they're averages of the non-averaged datasheets, that goes without saying. But I was wondering if the general Beaker averages include those without steppe or if you made some kind of apartheid there, with an average of the steppe-admixed ones, besides the average of those without steppe. Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62371502393298613902018-03-18T12:48:16.161-07:002018-03-18T12:48:16.161-07:00@Simon_W
What's the former average exactly? T...@Simon_W<br /><br /><i>What's the former average exactly? The average of the total or just the average of the Beakers with steppe admixture?</i><br /><br />You can see the values that I averaged by looking at the non-averaged datasheets.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73760801520277665452018-03-18T10:21:43.181-07:002018-03-18T10:21:43.181-07:00@Anthro Survey
Re: The Gauls, I absolutely agree ...@Anthro Survey<br /><br />Re: The Gauls, I absolutely agree that they were more EEF shifted than the average central European Beaker, after all the modern French are more EEF shifted, and that's hardly the legacy of Roman input or constant gene-flow from Iberia over the last centuries... <br /><br />I didn't quite keep in mind how far north the Occitan language originally extended. So Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33721975475889290282018-03-18T09:37:51.641-07:002018-03-18T09:37:51.641-07:00@Davidski
I noticed that in the updated Global 25...@Davidski<br /><br />I noticed that in the updated Global 25 average spreadsheets the Beaker averages are now split into a Beaker average and a Beaker average without steppe. What's the former average exactly? The average of the total or just the average of the Beakers with steppe admixture?Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43672862561129769682018-03-18T09:29:55.061-07:002018-03-18T09:29:55.061-07:00@Anthro Survey
Some critical remarks re: your Ita...@Anthro Survey<br /><br />Some critical remarks re: your Italian_Bergamo run:<br /><br />I would have used French instead of French_East, because of some likely Germanic admixture in the latter. And instead of using just one single North Italian Beaker I would have used the average. Because the average is probably closer to the population average of North Italian Beakers, whilst one single Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6179455068644967032018-03-18T02:31:42.418-07:002018-03-18T02:31:42.418-07:00@Alberto
On your list of what you consider improb...@Alberto<br /><br />On your list of what you consider improbable:<br /><br />1) There actually are pieces of evidence of a pre-proto-Celto-Italic language. The linguists that proposed the North-West Block considered the substrate they found related to Italic.<br /><br />2) You project modern day distributions on pre-Celtic populations.<br /><br />3) We see a clear cultural connection to other IE Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13900645308478506002018-03-18T00:08:46.510-07:002018-03-18T00:08:46.510-07:00Well I just linked to the 2018 DF27 discussion.Well I just linked to the 2018 DF27 discussion.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72016165965317419452018-03-17T23:30:43.568-07:002018-03-17T23:30:43.568-07:00@ Davidski
Regarding Maju. I can not see any 201...@ Davidski <br /><br />Regarding Maju. I can not see any 2018 discussions, only 2016 early 2017 regarding DF 27. So maybe this discussion died and early death due to new Bell Beaker samples ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4203006615053267502018-03-17T21:42:37.248-07:002018-03-17T21:42:37.248-07:00Ted Kandell of Open Genomes analyzed the BAM files...Ted Kandell of Open Genomes analyzed the BAM files of the Moroccan Hunter Gatherers circa 15000 ybp. They are spot on M78 partially on to the breakup of M78 via YFull estimates. They are posted in Facebook YFull.com groupAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02272252711544391571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81889515361383374252018-03-17T20:39:40.318-07:002018-03-17T20:39:40.318-07:00@David said... Maju and his rather limited cheer s...@David said... Maju and his rather limited cheer squad are at it again.<br /><br />Maju, Olympus Mons and Gioiello in one place = The land of misfit toys.Richard Roccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10137962922951473003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72684103756179508902018-03-17T18:25:54.827-07:002018-03-17T18:25:54.827-07:00Maju and his rather limited cheer squad are at it ...Maju and his rather limited cheer squad are at it again.<br /><br />http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2018/03/oldest-known-iberian-r1b-s116-and-df27.htmlDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-92218210897238958522018-03-17T18:21:58.211-07:002018-03-17T18:21:58.211-07:00Yes, the extra Yamnaya signal is probably a proxy ...Yes, the extra Yamnaya signal is probably a proxy for Celtic and also Germanic admixture in Iberia. There is also some extra CHG-related ancestry in many parts of Iberia, but it's rather low, and I think it can be explained by admixture from Romans and Greeks.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43240160062073301182018-03-17T17:57:01.586-07:002018-03-17T17:57:01.586-07:00@ Dave\ RK
Adding Yamnaya essentially removes Arm...@ Dave\ RK<br /><br />Adding Yamnaya essentially removes Armenia EBA , and partly eats into BA Iberia. But it pushes up balkans IA in a major way (20-30%) <br />Taken at face value, it suggests need for additional/ ongoing Central European admixture to Iberia (?halstatt, la Tène) after its EBA, and some south European (continental) input (perhaps indeed Roman) ; but very minimal “Mediterranean”. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com