tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post1567320423550525223..comments2024-03-19T06:26:06.056-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: An early Mitanni?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger333125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47374598520753620502021-05-11T05:01:42.893-07:002021-05-11T05:01:42.893-07:00@vAsiSTha
"Brahmins have lesser steppe than N...@vAsiSTha<br />"Brahmins have lesser steppe than North and NW indians and pakistanis/afghans/kalash etc."<br /><br />That's incorrect. There is substantial variation in NW India and Pakistan wrt steppe. In<br />India, the only group that clearly has higher steppe than Brahmins are the Hindu Jats and<br />Rors of Haryana, Western UP, Kalasha obviously. The Indo-Aryan speaking BrahminBhatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15826428604582794707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30689531069004349622020-07-06T18:27:39.400-07:002020-07-06T18:27:39.400-07:00Also, just because there are some R1 defining SNPs...Also, just because there are some R1 defining SNPs missing in the data doesn't mean this sample might actually belong to R3 or R4.<br /><br />The data are missing because this sample is low quality. A higher quality version would have reads at those SNP sites.<br /><br />And as per the genotype data, there are reads at other SNPs that show this individual to belong to R1.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19416933749669804692020-07-06T18:11:34.167-07:002020-07-06T18:11:34.167-07:00@Unknown
I2189 definitely belongs to R1 and proba...@Unknown<br /><br />I2189 definitely belongs to R1 and probably R1a, for example...<br /><br />R1 M640 DER<br />R1a1a1~ F3551 DER<br /><br />More info here...<br /><br />https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20461-The-Genomic-History-of-the-Bronze-Age-Southern-Levant&p=671600&viewfull=1#post671600<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39509570600433474242020-07-06T12:08:49.480-07:002020-07-06T12:08:49.480-07:00Concerning the comment:
"The Megiddo samples...Concerning the comment:<br /><br />"The Megiddo samples include a trio of interesting outliers dated to 1600-1500 BCE with significant ancestry from the steppe. One of these individuals is a male, I2189, who belongs to Y-haplogroup R and probably R1a. So he might also be of Indo-Aryan origin."<br /><br />I asked one of the researchers about the Y Haplogroup R sample and she said stated:Steven Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18123378830294242479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10853885174824620222020-06-04T06:49:01.833-07:002020-06-04T06:49:01.833-07:00@gamerz_J
"It is not unlikely that the ENA i...@gamerz_J<br /><br />"It is not unlikely that the ENA it has is related to the ENA in ANE, as even the Dzudzuana paper modeled CHG with Tianyuan instead, and it is seems improbable to me that the ENA in CHG is different from that in Iran_N."<br /><br />The p-value for Tianyuan in CHG was worse than the p-value for Onge in Iran_N. Yes I know that Onge is a bad proxy but the Tianyuan is aTLThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15413829785784227492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73174811067924559952020-06-04T00:14:41.323-07:002020-06-04T00:14:41.323-07:00@Davidski
Thanks for the reply, you do have a goo...@Davidski<br /><br />Thanks for the reply, you do have a good point. This is probably the 5th one I see regarding the WE/ENA ancestry of Yana and related pops.<br /><br />Global 25 said 70-30, I guess it's a good enough approximation for now. <br /> gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69684750127097117442020-06-03T23:50:31.479-07:002020-06-03T23:50:31.479-07:00@gamerz_J
I don't have any interest in highly...@gamerz_J<br /><br />I don't have any interest in highly theoretical deep ancestry models such as these anymore.<br /><br />They can change due to a lot of factors, and often it takes very little to shift the results significantly, so whatever.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12359057943176987812020-06-03T23:37:57.419-07:002020-06-03T23:37:57.419-07:00@Davidski
Regarding ANE, this pre-print was just ...@Davidski<br /><br />Regarding ANE, this pre-print was just posted about the Salkhit individual: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.03.131995v1<br /><br />I was wondering, they seem to model Yana as being 40% or more ENA, do you know/have any thoughts on how accurate that is?<br /><br />In their alternative models it's less, but Tianyuan is 4% Goyet-like.gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11754705822056007322020-06-03T22:53:01.136-07:002020-06-03T22:53:01.136-07:00@TLT
"The ENA in Iran_N from the Dzudzuana p...@TLT<br /><br />"The ENA in Iran_N from the Dzudzuana preprint list is Onge, the ENA in ANS has not been classified into one of the ENA branches yet."<br /><br />I am aware of this, but I am not convinced it is actually Onge(-like). I am not even convinced Onge is that good of a proxy for AASI ancestry (as VasiSTha has also pointed out) , albeit probably better than any other reference.gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56070437057499398772020-06-03T21:16:37.421-07:002020-06-03T21:16:37.421-07:00@Aniasi
Considering the lack of a South Asian sig...@Aniasi<br /><br />Considering the lack of a South Asian signal in these samples, it looks like their ancestors came from somewhere northwest of Pakistan.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-92199414247903165472020-06-03T19:46:53.522-07:002020-06-03T19:46:53.522-07:00@Davidski,
Based on these admixture models, how f...@Davidski,<br /><br />Based on these admixture models, how far towards South Asia did the Mitanni swing on their way into their Hurrian settlement? It would be interesting to see their split or interactionAniasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16835147197875187118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41492340031128284422020-06-03T12:04:22.008-07:002020-06-03T12:04:22.008-07:00@Epoch
From Ezekiel 16:3
"And say, Thus sai...@Epoch<br /><br />From Ezekiel 16:3<br /><br />"And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite."<br /><br />But it was pointed out once elsewhere that there was also a semitic tribe that was referred to as Hittite, so maybe that is what is being referenced above?<br />RobertNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424181842279889227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58621733584134455192020-06-03T09:51:56.316-07:002020-06-03T09:51:56.316-07:00Iran_N (Zagros) and CHG (Kotias) do have ANE, but ...Iran_N (Zagros) and CHG (Kotias) do have ANE, but that ANE has nothing to do with yDNA J. I suspect that J came from the proto WHG in the Dzudzuana type of ancestry which they had.<br /><br />@gamerz_J<br /><br />"Maybe I have asked you before, but do you think whatever ENA Iran_N had could be related to that of ANE? I am wondering if that could explain this affinity."<br /><br />The TLThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15413829785784227492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52472670738578733972020-06-03T05:35:54.009-07:002020-06-03T05:35:54.009-07:00On the Megiddo outliers with steppe admxiture: The...On the Megiddo outliers with steppe admxiture: The Bible mentions Hittites on some occasions. One is Uriah the Hittite, fighting in King Davids army, only to be sent to an untimely death because David fancied his wife. While this would make him probably far more recent than the Megiddo outliers it does goes to show that there is at least a possibility that this points to Hittites fighting for epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25899729735508667092020-06-02T23:32:26.397-07:002020-06-02T23:32:26.397-07:00@Slumberry
"1. Common ancestry from a third,...@Slumberry<br /><br />"1. Common ancestry from a third, not yet sampled, ancient population.<br />2. As a variation of the above CHG/IHG had ancestry from a ANE subgroup that diverged from the known ANE before MA1."<br /><br />Interesting, both scenarios seem plausible to me. But there is something ANE-related , many Zagros samples had subclades of R.<br /><br />"I remember some gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15121155898169202202020-06-02T23:16:04.524-07:002020-06-02T23:16:04.524-07:00@RobertN
"I wasn't aware this was so con...@RobertN<br /><br />"I wasn't aware this was so controversial or disputed. In some articles it's stated as a given"<br /><br />Yes in most papers it is and I also think that they were more of a WE than ENA population,so I should have phrased this better. But, there are some scenarios where it might not be such a clear case. <br /><br />"Are the East Asian affinities you gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45632575647201610182020-06-02T21:28:54.226-07:002020-06-02T21:28:54.226-07:00@gamerz_J
..., but what do you think Iran_N and C...@gamerz_J<br /><br /><i>..., but what do you think Iran_N and CHG have if not ANE?</i><br /><br />1. Common ancestry from a third, not yet sampled, ancient population. <br />2. As a variation of the above CHG/IHG had ancestry from a ANE subgroup that diverged from the known ANE before MA1. <br /><br />Note that EHG "likes" AG3 much more than MA1, while CHG/IHG is the opposite. I Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20410325430101570552020-06-02T15:36:35.898-07:002020-06-02T15:36:35.898-07:00@gamerz_J
"Yes, though the Ancient North Sib...@gamerz_J<br /><br />"Yes, though the Ancient North Siberians were not exactly West Eurasians as they had some additional ENA (East Asian affinities). But closer to West Eurasians than East Asians I think."<br /><br />I wasn't aware this was so controversial or disputed. In some articles it's stated as a given.<br /><br />“'Remarkably, the Ancient North Siberians people are RobertNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424181842279889227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10605026254952692912020-06-02T15:03:09.059-07:002020-06-02T15:03:09.059-07:00@John Thomas,
Eurogenes G25 PCA can get accurate ...@John Thomas,<br /><br />Eurogenes G25 PCA can get accurate Steppe ancestry scores. But, you have to use recent ancestor sources which makes it difficult. I have Steppe scores for modern pops. If you have your G25 coordinates, I can create scores for you.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84503722982959966772020-06-02T14:39:50.478-07:002020-06-02T14:39:50.478-07:00@old europe
" IIRC ANE can be modeled as 7...@old europe<br />" IIRC ANE can be modeled as 75% gravettian and the rest ANA<br /> If that is true it means EHG is the product of two different layers of WHG<br /> the first gravettian ( proto WHG)"<br /><br />You're wrong.<br /><br />Target: RUS_MA1:MA1<br />Distance: 8.4854% / 0.08485398<br />100.0 RUS_Yana_UP<br />0.0 CZE_Vestonice16<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79846693480878044362020-06-02T14:14:35.641-07:002020-06-02T14:14:35.641-07:00@old europe
Only it was the other way around. No...@old europe <br /><br />Only it was the other way around. Now this way looks like this.<br /><br />Altai, Karakol culture -><br />Russian Plain, Streletskaya Culture -><br />European Aurignac -><br />Levantine Aurignac.<br /><br />Gravetian culture came from Aurignac.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49244673852536139172020-06-02T13:57:18.524-07:002020-06-02T13:57:18.524-07:00@robertN
IIRC ANE can be modeled as 75% gravettia...@robertN<br /><br />IIRC ANE can be modeled as 75% gravettian and the rest ANA<br /><br />If that is true it means EHG is the product of two different layers of WHG <br />the first gravettian ( proto WHG)<br />the second WHG formed after the LGM that is involved in the Sidelkino cluster old europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15169897625838717423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81212209376438928692020-06-02T12:47:56.780-07:002020-06-02T12:47:56.780-07:00@Slumberry
"And I would not be sure that CHG...@Slumberry<br /><br />"And I would not be sure that CHG or Iran_HG was rich on actual ANE ancestry either. They can be modelled with them, in the absence of better ancestral references, with abysmal fit."<br /><br />I don't have that strong of an opinion on J, but what do you think Iran_N and CHG have if not ANE? <br /><br />They show high affinity with EHG and MA1, do they not?gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19626876683134065042020-06-02T12:46:29.446-07:002020-06-02T12:46:29.446-07:00@Matt
Thanks for the reply, I unfortunately only ...@Matt<br /><br />Thanks for the reply, I unfortunately only just noticed a few minutes ago , browsing through the paper now.<br />I am still not sure if it's CHG or Iran_N from Anatolia but looks more CHG-like.<br /><br />@RobertN<br /><br />Yes, though the Ancient North Siberians were not exactly West Eurasians as they had some additional ENA (East Asian affinities). But closer to West gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90518254215147667742020-06-02T12:10:55.763-07:002020-06-02T12:10:55.763-07:00@gamerz_J
I wouldn't call R Siberian per say ...@gamerz_J<br /><br />I wouldn't call R Siberian per say but an ANE lineage. Siberians in my mind are more East Eurasian populations."<br /><br />Aren't the East Eurasian Siberians you are referencing (Ancient PaleoSiberians, First Peoples, NeoSiberians) later arrivals that superseded the Ancient North Siberians who were ancestral to ANE, and were they not West Eurasians?RobertNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14424181842279889227noreply@blogger.com