tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post2471556225990214110..comments2024-03-28T10:03:24.453-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Corded Ware cultural and genetic complexity (Linderholm et al. 2020)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger275125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24796543416245346472020-04-23T10:45:00.198-07:002020-04-23T10:45:00.198-07:00About MX265: What's the context of his burial?...About MX265: What's the context of his burial? What was written so far fits well into the concept of a Thraco-Cimmerian upper class among Hallstatt. At the end of Hallstatt this elite was largely overthrown by the commoners with possible new influences (steppe-Scythian and Greek), resulting in the early La Tene culture of more clearly Celtic affiliation.zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67821150450786773522020-04-22T16:00:26.403-07:002020-04-22T16:00:26.403-07:00@Archi
"Pair burial: burial of male and fema...@Archi<br /><br />"Pair burial: burial of male and female in gender opposition.<br />Double burial: burial of two male or female without gender opposition. Kids don't count."<br /><br />That terminology is obviously not used by Swedish archaeologists. <br /><br />Anyways, I did some reading and both variants are attested (male + female in gender opposition and male + male without Angantyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737729155560807904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55231700092497867572020-04-22T07:25:42.418-07:002020-04-22T07:25:42.418-07:00@Archi
"Arza had nothing to do with it, you ...@Archi<br /><br />"Arza had nothing to do with it, you were the one who yelled to me that "that's nonsense" on my quote "La Te`ne period"."<br /><br />That's a blatant lie. I added right in the next post that this latter comment was rather directed @Arza.<br /><br />Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6616210848581179672020-04-22T03:21:44.417-07:002020-04-22T03:21:44.417-07:00@Angantyr "but the problem is that the vast m...@Angantyr "but the problem is that the vast majority of the (presumed) Battle Axe double graves lack skeletal remains due to bad preservation conditions, so they're classified as double graves based on having seemingly double sets of grave goods. And many don't have clearly one male and one female set - there's at least one grave with what looks like two male sets."<br /> <Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4938309853209368322020-04-21T23:37:18.677-07:002020-04-21T23:37:18.677-07:00@ Archi
Another article I have read claim that t...@ Archi <br /><br />Another article I have read claim that the tanged arrowheads of the Levant can not be properly dated properly because of the re-use of material sights throughout the ages...could be as late as the Chalcolithic in that area...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78883780412499725322020-04-21T23:31:51.104-07:002020-04-21T23:31:51.104-07:00@ Archi
That is a very confusing article...@ Archi <br /><br />That is a very confusing article...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83296475466171679392020-04-21T20:20:06.575-07:002020-04-21T20:20:06.575-07:00@Archi
"Don't you confuse double burials...@Archi<br /><br />"Don't you confuse double burials with paired burials? They're different things. Pair graves are the norm in CWC everywhere"<br /><br />The word "double" is used in the literature I have read. "Pair", not so much, but I guess you mean a pair of man and woman? Yes, those certainly exist, they might even be the norm, but the problem is that Angantyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737729155560807904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26645396218843144832020-04-21T16:03:54.729-07:002020-04-21T16:03:54.729-07:00@FrankN
"b) more rhomboid forms, eventually...@FrankN <br /><br />"b) more rhomboid forms, eventually evolving into (non-tanged) triangles, finding their way into CT and from there into the Danubian MN and ultimately (Lesser Polish) CWC."<br /><br />In the Lesser Polish CWC they are from a BB.<br /><br />https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/ws/files/5981499/7991559.pdf<br /><br />"1. Triangular, tanged (and barbed) arrowheads Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36663388932928110882020-04-21T15:55:26.395-07:002020-04-21T15:55:26.395-07:00@Angantyr "Double burials were also reasonabl...@Angantyr "Double burials were also reasonably common in Swedish Battle Axe"<br /><br />Don't you confuse double burials with paired burials? They're different things. Pair graves are the norm in CWC everywhere.<br /><br />In CWC there is a distinctive feature, men always lie on the right side, although the orientation on the sides of the world may vary depending on the local Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68581651144171289642020-04-21T14:36:48.463-07:002020-04-21T14:36:48.463-07:00Ric, Argantyr - re: Double burials
It's usefu...Ric, Argantyr - re: Double burials<br /><br />It's useful to recall Furholt's (2019) definition of the SGBR:<br /><br />1. individual interments,<br />2. gender differentiation, <br />3. male warriors, and<br />4 (mostly) strict rules of orientation of the dead<br /><br />as opposed to collective burials of preceding periods and adjacent areas, and the cremating cultures of the MBA/EIA.<FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74499238734834877692020-04-21T12:21:46.178-07:002020-04-21T12:21:46.178-07:00@ Angantyr
Indeed.@ Angantyr <br /><br />Indeed.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20878754624506422212020-04-21T12:15:52.758-07:002020-04-21T12:15:52.758-07:00@Ric Hern
Double burials were also reasonably com...@Ric Hern<br /><br />Double burials were also reasonably common in Swedish Battle Axe (including undisputed ones with actual Battle Axe artifacts, not just dubious grave goods free burials that could be post-Battle Axe), so they're nothing foreign to CWC.Angantyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10737729155560807904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17716209728712434522020-04-21T11:10:08.330-07:002020-04-21T11:10:08.330-07:00As far as I can remember there were also some doub...As far as I can remember there were also some double burials in Single Grave Denmark...<br /><br />And Amber Discs and Beeds...Baltic connection just like the probable tanged arrowheads of Pitted Ware and Bell Beaker ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21632605483658903762020-04-21T09:28:00.504-07:002020-04-21T09:28:00.504-07:00@ FrankN
How about Tanged Arrow Heads from the P...@ FrankN <br /><br />How about Tanged Arrow Heads from the Pitted Ware Culture ? Connection to Bell Beaker maybe ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65912449616378796312020-04-21T04:41:34.159-07:002020-04-21T04:41:34.159-07:00@Moesan,
'To be pre-Germanic doesn't excu...@Moesan,<br /><br />'To be pre-Germanic doesn't excude to be part of the Germanics genesis' <br /><br />Indeed fully agree.<br /><br />But 'traditional' R1b U106 is seen in respect to the Germanic genesis.<br /><br />But it's history is older than the Germanic genesis. <br /><br />Besides that what is Germanic? Yes a cultural label, but there is no such thing as a 'weurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18217998844540373877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37909297529891085232020-04-20T23:42:25.736-07:002020-04-20T23:42:25.736-07:00MX265 explains how the Roman name Lacus Venetus wa...MX265 explains how the Roman name Lacus Venetus was created.ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33344887997634097972020-04-20T23:01:35.061-07:002020-04-20T23:01:35.061-07:00The SGBR only belongs to those Bell Beakers' b...<br />The SGBR only belongs to those Bell Beakers' burials which are actually within the CWC or densely along the border and in Britain which have obviously migrated from the Netherlands border with the CWC. All other BBCs do not belong to the SGBR, and they are the vast majority.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16178263596577220352020-04-20T22:51:47.030-07:002020-04-20T22:51:47.030-07:00@weure
"Nevertheless there were large parts ...@weure<br /><br />"Nevertheless there were large parts of for example the southern parts of the Netherlands that were never target of the Germanic spread still got plenty R1b U106."<br /><br />South of the Netherlands (Noord-Brabant and the area's where the Batavi lived) and the Belgian Kempen completely were abandoned round 300 and resettled. This is attested historically (wars epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42492252065799072082020-04-20T22:46:52.334-07:002020-04-20T22:46:52.334-07:00@FrankN
"On one hand, CWC (or maybe better ...@FrankN <br /><br />"On one hand, CWC (or maybe better SGBR) presents itself as a phenomenon of highly mobile (R1a/b) men, which were able to spread across thousands of kilometers in very short time (150 years, i.e. 5 generations, from the Lower Vistula to Zurich lake)"<br /><br />R1b in Switzerland does not belong to SGBR, especially to CWC.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20057270260852162802020-04-20T22:21:16.985-07:002020-04-20T22:21:16.985-07:00@ FrankN
"Clearly, prevailing narratives (&...@ FrankN <br /><br />"Clearly, prevailing narratives ("Steppe herders") can't explain this paradoxon (btw., men travelling together with their herds would hardly be able to move/ spread at the observed speed)." <br /><br />Looks like you forgot about the Mongol Empire...<br /><br /><br />Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34761569156929083212020-04-20T19:14:57.299-07:002020-04-20T19:14:57.299-07:00Otherwise, this study is another illustration of t...Otherwise, this study is another illustration of the paradoxon discussed by Furholt 2019:<br /><br />- On one hand, CWC (or maybe better SGBR) presents itself as a phenomenon of highly mobile (R1a/b) men, which were able to spread across thousands of kilometers in very short time (150 years, i.e. 5 generations, from the Lower Vistula to Zurich lake);<br /><br />- OTOH, study after study FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49525113465389295262020-04-20T18:41:25.547-07:002020-04-20T18:41:25.547-07:00@Henrique Paes, "Relating culture to biology ...@Henrique Paes, "Relating culture to biology is extremely stupid."<br /><br />I wasn't saying cultures are different because of different genes. I was saying that usually people of the same culture are the same ethnicity and therefore have the same genes. <br /><br />And, that ancient DNA confirms that in prehistoric Europe this was usually the case. But, European archaeologist are Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76838794719471094682020-04-20T18:34:56.563-07:002020-04-20T18:34:56.563-07:00@Rob,"But something happened after 2500 , wit...@Rob,"But something happened after 2500 , with BB especially"<br /><br />Yep, I agree. A highlight from wew Swiss & Poland ancient DNA is there that there was population discontinuity from the Coded Ware to Bell Beaker transition in Central Europe.Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64507059723609018192020-04-20T18:24:22.653-07:002020-04-20T18:24:22.653-07:00Look at some of the WHG-ANF proportions (Yamnaya e...Look at some of the WHG-ANF proportions (Yamnaya excluded) in their qpADM:<br /><br />Aesch25 0,113 WHG; 0,089 ANF ~ 56% WHG<br />MX251 0,213 WHG; 0,103 ANF ~ 67% WHG<br />MX279 0,215 WHG; 0,154 ANF ~ 58% WHG<br /><br />Those ratios look implausible to me. I mean - how could they have come across? Straight from the Steppe to Wartberg, marrying there your brother's daughter (who had arrived FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70841534212270356172020-04-20T16:56:29.947-07:002020-04-20T16:56:29.947-07:00Samuel Andrews
Relating culture to biology is ext...<br />Samuel Andrews<br /><br />Relating culture to biology is extremely stupid. There is such a thing as 'assimilation' and cultural development is much more influenced by geographical factors and other needs<br /><br />Specific genes can have an influence on specific things, but in general culture develops in a social way.Henrique Paeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14266320915079290609noreply@blogger.com