tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3068782207949032720..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Focus on Hittite AnatoliaDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70184973651737483972019-05-10T17:45:50.169-07:002019-05-10T17:45:50.169-07:00I am Greek J2a1i (L88) (L198) and MyTrueAncestry s...I am Greek J2a1i (L88) (L198) and MyTrueAncestry states I am related to I9010<br /><br />• Galatas19 (I9010): Female without an osteological age estimate, LH IIB to LH IIIC (15th to early 12th century BCE)<br /><br />• Galatas4 (I9041): Male without an osteological age estimate, LH IIB to LH IIIC (15th to early 12th century BCE).<br /><br />I9041 (Mycenaean from Galatas Apatheia in the Nike81https://www.blogger.com/profile/02361495935512913827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4727722215062203942019-05-10T17:38:20.090-07:002019-05-10T17:38:20.090-07:00I recently did MyTrueAncestry ‘deep dive’ and it s...I recently did MyTrueAncestry ‘deep dive’ and it states that I am related to MA2208 Hittite Anatolian & I9010 Mycenaean<br /><br />MA2208 Hittite <br />Total cM=22.14<br />Largest segment=3.0 cM (11 shared. Sample quality: 7)<br /><br />I9010 Mycenaean <br />Total cM=3.38<br />Largest segment=2.01 cM (2 shared. Sample quality: 9)<br /><br /><br />Nike81https://www.blogger.com/profile/02361495935512913827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72018994521385460572018-09-16T18:33:16.982-07:002018-09-16T18:33:16.982-07:00@OG
Thanks for the analysis of MA2208. Being G-M4...@OG<br /><br />Thanks for the analysis of MA2208. Being G-M406 myself, and this being the first and only(?) G-M406 ancient sample, I second the request for a more detailed post about him. :) PFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780789381709373839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89748353193628638222018-09-16T18:29:20.152-07:002018-09-16T18:29:20.152-07:00@PF
Sredny Stog is way earlier than Yamnaya.
Hit...@PF<br /><br />Sredny Stog is way earlier than Yamnaya.<br /><br /><a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/05/hittite-era-anatolians-in-qpadm.html" rel="nofollow">Hittite era Anatolians in qpAdm</a><br /><br />And a map here...<br /><br /><a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/a-corded-ware-related-proto-greek-from.html" rel="nofollow">A Corded Ware-related Proto-Greek from the Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45176588418999343542018-09-16T18:20:16.860-07:002018-09-16T18:20:16.860-07:00@Davidski Thanks for the links/analysis. No doubt ...@Davidski Thanks for the links/analysis. No doubt CHG isn’t a great reference, but neither is Yamnaya considering it post-dates Anatolia_Chl. Obviously whatever Yamnaya-related stuff had to come from somewhere, but not Yamnaya themselves… so the hunt continues. <br /><br />Looking west, it’s interesting to consider Malak_Preslavets. It predates Anatolia_Chl by ~1500 years and is about as far fromPFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780789381709373839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76198388218592779952018-09-11T20:27:28.174-07:002018-09-11T20:27:28.174-07:00@David, thank you. I think maybe MA2208 is worth a...@David, thank you. I think maybe MA2208 is worth a closer look on its own, and a post by itself, right?<br /><br />@Ric Hern<br />Of course it can't be Afanasievo itself. However, the pure "Steppe component" of MA2208 has to be something "pre-Yamnaya" around the time that Afanasievo packed up and left for the East, but shortly after Khvalynsk Eneolithic. (His mtDNA H6a1b Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8227052237688992132018-09-10T08:37:03.628-07:002018-09-10T08:37:03.628-07:00This makes me wonder if Novodanilovka contributed ...This makes me wonder if Novodanilovka contributed to the formation of Afanasievo ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43040683534199041352018-09-10T08:28:36.826-07:002018-09-10T08:28:36.826-07:00@ Open Genomes
Very interesting. But how can it ...@ Open Genomes <br /><br />Very interesting. But how can it be Afanasievo when Afanasievo was Post-Yamnaya ? Suvorovo Maybe ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84322592461318430472018-09-08T23:49:47.690-07:002018-09-08T23:49:47.690-07:00@OG
I missed this, but you're right. H6a1b2e ...@OG<br /><br />I missed this, but you're right. H6a1b2e looks like a maternal Bronze Age steppe marker.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49333916889456513132018-09-08T23:03:06.205-07:002018-09-08T23:03:06.205-07:00What's important about MA2208 is that he has a...What's important about MA2208 is that he has a very clear Steppe mtDNA, H6a1b2e. H6a1b was found in Yamnaya Samara, and H6a1b2e today is only found in Denmark and Ireland. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h6a1b_genbank_sequences.htm" rel="nofollow"><b>H6a1b and H6a1b2e modern distribution</b></a><br /><br />Combining this evidence and the autosomal results, asOpen Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70153258228991702402018-09-03T21:36:31.599-07:002018-09-03T21:36:31.599-07:00@David,
MA2206 comes from the same context as MA2...@David,<br /><br />MA2206 comes from the same context as MA2208. This female was found underneath MA2208, dead with others in the attack on the public building at Kalehoyuk in 1750 BCE.<br /><br /><a href="http://open-genomes.org/analysis/PCA/nMonte/getNmonte.html?id=MA2206-650-penalty-0-limit-0.5-only-Bronze_Age-and-earlier-no-Mycenaean-Minoan" rel="nofollow"><b>Restricted nMonte3 for MA2206 Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68422484199030597772018-09-03T19:21:33.229-07:002018-09-03T19:21:33.229-07:00Restricted nMonte3 for MA2208 Population: Anatolia...<a href="http://open-genomes.org/analysis/PCA/nMonte/getNmonte.html?id=MA2208-650-penalty-0-limit-0.5-only-Bronze_Age-and-earlier-no-Mycenaean" rel="nofollow"><b>Restricted nMonte3 for MA2208 Population: Anatolia_MLBA_low_res Bronze Age Anatolia excluding Mycenaeans</b></a><br /><br />@David, what do you make of the 7.2% Afanasievo in this sample?<br /><br />What's really striking here is theOpen Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81206501936806295612018-09-03T01:41:45.746-07:002018-09-03T01:41:45.746-07:00Hmmm...actually, if an Anatolia_ChL-like populatio...Hmmm...actually, if an Anatolia_ChL-like population migrated to Central Anatolia from the west and gave rise to the Hittite era Anatolia_MLBA, then that's pretty much in line with the steppe hypothesis anyway, except the steppe ancestry that we see in Anatolia_MLBA isn't actually from the steppe, which makes no difference for a linguistic model anyway.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35121769111296874842018-09-03T00:35:11.796-07:002018-09-03T00:35:11.796-07:00@PF
I think what you're seeing there are the ...@PF<br /><br />I think what you're seeing there are the confounding factors that I talked about, which are tied to the European-related ancestry in these Anatolian groups. And by adding CHG to your models, you're basically creating an excellent steppe effect, at least in G25/nMonte.<br /><br />However, two of your models are rejected in qpAdm, which suggests that by adding CHG you're Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91670434433621766502018-09-02T21:10:09.771-07:002018-09-02T21:10:09.771-07:00It looks a lot more "southern" than &quo...It looks a lot more "southern" than "eastern." In fact I'm having a hard time recreating the D-stat result suggesting increased EHG in Anatolia_MLBA relative to Anatolia_EBA (using G25 pop averages and nMonte). <br /><br />Anatolia_Chl is relevant, not necessarily because it directly contributed to later central Anatolian populations, but because it’s already quite similarPFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780789381709373839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13126924954240130972018-09-02T16:55:42.151-07:002018-09-02T16:55:42.151-07:00@David, you've been quoted in India today!@David, you've been quoted in India today! Aniasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07886802151041914832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23085188112620383712018-09-01T16:34:07.439-07:002018-09-01T16:34:07.439-07:00Luca Cavalleri-Sforza just died.Luca Cavalleri-Sforza just died.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02272252711544391571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69438642422942063102018-09-01T02:58:06.270-07:002018-09-01T02:58:06.270-07:00Actually, yeah, let me edit my earlier comment...
...Actually, yeah, let me edit my earlier comment...<br /><br />The most parsimonious assumption is that eastern <b>and southern</b> gene flow into an Boncuklu_N-like substrate created populations like Anatolia_ChL in Western Anatolia and Tepecik_Ciftlik_N/Anatolia_EBA in Central Anatolia.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16333212645246559742018-08-31T23:25:30.081-07:002018-08-31T23:25:30.081-07:00OT
"Utter crud!" says David.
https://www...OT<br />"Utter crud!" says David.<br />https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20180910-rakhigarhi-dna-study-findings-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31<br />Also an article by Razib<br />https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20180910-3-strands-of-ancestry-1328485-2018-08-31?utm_source=rssvelvetguntherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07913895735497180976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54295395654998469172018-08-31T23:04:56.136-07:002018-08-31T23:04:56.136-07:00@Matt
D-stats@Matt<br /><br /><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DbEC8AvOcT_wU-JF2V1ooFFColmpkN_W/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow">D-stats</a><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48770865576825213832018-08-31T17:09:34.765-07:002018-08-31T17:09:34.765-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nezih Sevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02774883142650286421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6687550934254723922018-08-31T15:19:09.356-07:002018-08-31T15:19:09.356-07:00In other words, Anatolia_ChL is from Western Anato...In other words, Anatolia_ChL is from Western Anatolia, and there's absolutely no evidence that anyone like this migrated through Central Anatolia to get there. <br /><br /><b>The most parsimonious assumption is that eastern gene flow into an Boncuklu_N-like substrate created populations like Anatolia_ChL in Western Anatolia and Tepecik_Ciftlik_N/Anatolia_EBA in Central Anatolia.</b><br /><br Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86280200628544633912018-08-31T14:50:53.107-07:002018-08-31T14:50:53.107-07:00@Chad
You're making the assumption that popul...@Chad<br /><br />You're making the assumption that populations like Anatolia_ChL and Armenia_ChL existed in Central Anatolia at some point, but I can't see any evidence of that.<br /><br />Did they exist there between the time of Tepecik_Ciftlik_N and Anatolia_EBA, and then somehow contributed to Anatolia_MLBA? I don't think this is possible.<br /><br />On the other hand, there is Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82839622234432765752018-08-31T14:50:29.976-07:002018-08-31T14:50:29.976-07:00Looking at a negatively correlated pair of stats (...Looking at a negatively correlated pair of stats (reversing the (Chimp, X;Anatolia_MLBA, Tepecik_Ciftlik_N) stat to do so):<br /><br />https://i.imgur.com/ao0c9OU.png<br /><br />Comparing the stat A: D(Chimp,X;Tepecik_Ciftlik,Boncuklu_N) against B: D(Chimp,X;Tepecik_Ciftlik,Anatolia_MLBA) we find that they are mildly negative correlated in different directions.<br /><br />The negative correlationMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78573014244631266462018-08-31T14:00:20.042-07:002018-08-31T14:00:20.042-07:00Having the results for (Chimp, X;Tepecik_Ciftlik_N...Having the results for (Chimp, X;Tepecik_Ciftlik_N, Barcin_N), (Chimp, X;Tepecik_Ciftlik_N, Koros_N), (Chimp, X;Tepecik_Ciftlik_N, Iberia_EN) would also be interesting, if you don't mind.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.com