tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3428890437055932902..comments2024-03-19T03:59:11.374-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Crazy stuffDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger550125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47651418613071571612021-12-25T19:35:09.698-08:002021-12-25T19:35:09.698-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-85880806173292521152021-12-24T01:31:59.978-08:002021-12-24T01:31:59.978-08:00@ambron, as far as I know there isn't anything...@ambron, as far as I know there isn't anything genetically speaking to directly support the "Common Era expansion from Pripyat" idea. Indirectly, I also don't think it's the most promising place genetically speaking, given that the people to the north are likely to be Baltic or Uralic, while to the south are generally Scytho-Sarmatian. If the genotype lacks the Central / Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32577472586243581062021-12-23T14:45:40.877-08:002021-12-23T14:45:40.877-08:00@ Andrzejewski
So you think the people who migra...@ Andrzejewski <br /><br />So you think the people who migrated to Britain had nothing to do with Beaker people ? Did they come from a place that was not influenced by the earlier Bell Beaker Culture ? There was already a link between Britain and the Alps as seen with the earlier Amesbury Archer...<br /><br />It is kind of obvious that Steppe migrants mixed more with locals West of the Rhine as Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77411531932632870692021-12-23T07:24:38.296-08:002021-12-23T07:24:38.296-08:00Matt, do we have any genetic evidence that the Sla...Matt, do we have any genetic evidence that the Slavs come from Pripyat - a place indicated by some archaeologists, who also do not have archological evidence for it?<br /><br />However, we already have a whole lot of pre-medieval Slavic genomes from Central Europe, including several from Poland, with a large share of Balto-Slavic drift.ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71816739054776747172021-12-23T04:25:16.697-08:002021-12-23T04:25:16.697-08:00Celts in England were not descendants of Beakers b...Celts in England were not descendants of Beakers but they actually replaced half of their gene poolAndrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72406172043259228052021-12-23T04:18:56.988-08:002021-12-23T04:18:56.988-08:00Str isotopes on these outliers to detect how far t...Str isotopes on these outliers to detect how far they've come from (if they are 1st gen migrants) and from where could be informative?<br /><br />Davidski is obviously right that samples from Poland from between 1000BCE to 600AD will be the premium for really determining if some kind of "Slavic from the Middle" scenario is correct, where the language family forms somewhere more in Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1755806842564219722021-12-23T03:49:46.458-08:002021-12-23T03:49:46.458-08:00As a quick thing, just taking the metadata file fr...As a quick thing, just taking the metadata file from this paper, filtering it for only post 1000 BCE and above latitude 35 and between longitude 13 to 45, to isolate for broadly Iron Age / LBA and East-Central Europe: https://imgur.com/a/jkNtUUH<br /><br />(First sorted alphabetically by label, second sorted by longitude, third is sorted by longitude and removed some columns, fourth is as third Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66015826416385241932021-12-23T02:10:17.135-08:002021-12-23T02:10:17.135-08:00I’m not surprised we find Slavic like people in IA...I’m not surprised we find Slavic like people in IA Bohemia. It’s northeastern parts were within the Laustiz cultural sphere Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74720434764255246692021-12-23T01:41:50.830-08:002021-12-23T01:41:50.830-08:00@ Carlos
That’s great that you’re having a go at...@ Carlos <br /><br />That’s great that you’re having a go at editing Wikipedia . I know some of the clicks there militantly guard their vision of history <br />But it seems many people are confused between the “Mycenaean era”, which is indeed from ~ 1600, and the issue of invasions or migrations. The widespread destructions and abandonments occur at the MH II - III transition (~2200 bce) and . Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50504934924032544592021-12-23T01:36:47.065-08:002021-12-23T01:36:47.065-08:00@ambron, cremation is a big problem in many senses...@ambron, cremation is a big problem in many senses. I don't know if it's particularly a problem for what you propose.<br /><br />...<br /><br />As another experiment here with the data, tried a 3-way model for the entire British transect, using GAC (Czech+Poland+Ukraine), ESP_CA and the 3 earliest Czech Corded Way (close to Yamnaya like). Then looked at whether the ratio of GAC/ESP_CA Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52383879167317088292021-12-23T01:33:23.819-08:002021-12-23T01:33:23.819-08:00David, nevertheless genetic and linguistic data al...David, nevertheless genetic and linguistic data allow to exclude the origin of the Slavs from Pripyat.ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56019305147917254662021-12-23T01:19:05.152-08:002021-12-23T01:19:05.152-08:00Am I the only one not surprised that Polish-like p...Am I the only one not surprised that Polish-like people already existed during the Iron Age or even Bronze Age?<br /><br />You know, like if you mix a Proto-Slav with a Celt you might get something Polish-like in the modern sense.<br /><br />The challenge here is actually proving that a Polish-like population already existed back then and today's Poles are an uninterrupted continuation of Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68743710061789192352021-12-23T00:54:51.705-08:002021-12-23T00:54:51.705-08:00Matt, Arza, but we have to take the correction for...Matt, Arza, but we have to take the correction for the fact that the Slavs cultivated the cremation rite at that time. Thus, skeletal burials come only from acculturated individuals.ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89563865607336091742021-12-23T00:41:25.827-08:002021-12-23T00:41:25.827-08:00@arza, yes, sure, agree. I guess the interesting t...@arza, yes, sure, agree. I guess the interesting thing to me here is that some of the ancients found in LaTene_IA or Knoviz_LBA in particular are almost as close in their distance to some present day people in East-Central Europe as those people are to other people in the same population. E.g. - https://imgur.com/a/1zyuKCf<br /><br />So I think that's interesting in terms of the argument thatMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23125976331395362352021-12-22T20:28:58.208-08:002021-12-22T20:28:58.208-08:00A bit of weird wording from that British paper. Eg...A bit of weird wording from that British paper. Eg. "who arrived at this time and over previous centuries" So immigrants arrived from Continental Europe since the start of the Middle Bronze Age (1600 BCE.?) but somehow 1000 BCE to 800 BCE is exceptional ? This type of Ancestry only contributed to half of the Ancestry of Iron Age England and Wales, so what about the Other Half plus Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54496661176409391592021-12-22T19:00:49.388-08:002021-12-22T19:00:49.388-08:00@MH_82,
"I would still place the arrival of ...@MH_82,<br /><br />"I would still place the arrival of proto-Greeks in the mid-late M3..."<br /><br />If we take into account exclusively the archaeological issue, Mycenaean people were already present in Greece since Middle Helladic III, c. 1750-1700 BCE, as per new accepted chronology, commented by archaeologist Alex Knodell (2021). And indeed it was me who edited the whole Carlos Aramayohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15078753727610139222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86253142549219764722021-12-22T17:39:11.365-08:002021-12-22T17:39:11.365-08:00"Because l657 origin was 1 person in south as..."Because l657 origin was 1 person in south asia itself."<br />So who was his daddy? An Indian guy? Who was not l657? Also one guy who was not l657. PowerToTheAIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770412174322230452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36856993915351387062021-12-22T16:42:29.162-08:002021-12-22T16:42:29.162-08:00@ MH_82
Thanks for the link!
@ Matt
Obviousl...@ MH_82 <br /><br />Thanks for the link! <br /><br /><br />@ Matt<br /><br />Obviously La Tene is not a Proto-Slavic culture, but I think now we have enough data to conclude that La Tene was in a direct contact with the Early Slavs.<br /><br />BTW, we have a new "ROU_C_o":<br /><br />Target: Czech_LN:I16108<br />Distance: 1.3550% / 0.01355037 | R3P<br />57.6 Iberia_North_MLN<br />28.6 Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14291090357597821172021-12-22T16:26:15.138-08:002021-12-22T16:26:15.138-08:00Using labels from "Celtic Study", all sa...Using labels from "Celtic Study", all samples transect for England, Scotland and Wales (excluding only Mesolithic and a few odd outliers who looked misdated), with dots coloured by y-dna: https://imgur.com/a/fk4JzKB<br /><br />The y-dna switchovers are pretty clear and absolute in the record. There's some degree of diversification in the Iron Age, but it really still isn't very Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39845557960910530462021-12-22T15:31:13.714-08:002021-12-22T15:31:13.714-08:00@ Alex & Carlos
I would still place the arriv...@ Alex & Carlos<br /><br />I would still place the arrival of proto-Greeks in the mid-late M3 (i did not notice any specific dates in that poster for Perachora? ). <br />Illyrians formed in the Northwestern Balkans, and only expanded toward Macedonia and Greece in historic periods. Prior to that, the region was replete with para-'Greek' groups like Paeonians, Brygians, so forth Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49632961916852783372021-12-22T10:45:10.318-08:002021-12-22T10:45:10.318-08:00The Celtic study appeared:
https://www.nature.com...The Celtic study appeared:<br /><br />https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04287-4%22 ambronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238484037682022972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82055268990373104992021-12-22T09:54:11.898-08:002021-12-22T09:54:11.898-08:00@Davidski
If I may ask, regarding IBD, do you thi...@Davidski<br /><br />If I may ask, regarding IBD, do you think it's possible with ancient DNA you might get more false positives than on average? Running IBD between modern-ancient samples for example. gamerz_Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051893158540001073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8628637798473652742021-12-22T09:42:38.240-08:002021-12-22T09:42:38.240-08:00So, the Amesbury Archer is R1b-M269, though has a ...So, the Amesbury Archer is R1b-M269, though has a higher EEF level! Confirmed.<br />..<br />On another topic, one more for Arza and ambron, when Davidski released the preliminaries, we noted that some of the samples were linked to present day Eastern Europe by their best overall match.<br /><br />Here's an incomplete set of those samples, based on those I found had closest overall match to Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20301016453388908422021-12-22T09:31:21.792-08:002021-12-22T09:31:21.792-08:00The British Celtic paper is out:
https://www.natu...The British Celtic paper is out:<br /><br />https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04287-4Romulus the I2a L233+ Proto Balto-Slav, layer of Corded Ware Womenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10022650074050864850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5573955785428481962021-12-22T08:48:00.380-08:002021-12-22T08:48:00.380-08:00OK folks, re; British MBA paper, here's a merg...OK folks, re; British MBA paper, here's a merge of the preliminary G25 data Davidski gave us last month(?) with the sample IDs from the now released paper: <br /><br />https://pastebin.com/LwYQkXSR<br /><br />*Paper - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04287-4<br />*Media Coverage - https://phys.org/news/2021-12-harvard-geneticists-ancient-britain-insights.htmlMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.com